How common is the T4x gpu problem?

[icebag]

Question as in the title -- and apologies if this has been asked before.

I have acquired four T4x machines over recent months. One has the characteristic problem but three are free of it -- so far.

Should I expect more of them to fail? Or given that they are working now are they likely to continue working?

[rkawakami]

Here's two fairly recent threads:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=72903
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=69469

Given that most people who have a T4x without any issues will NOT be lurking around this forum, the data as to frequency of encountering this type of problem may be artificially high. I myself have three (four?) working ATI GPU T41 systems and only one of them has the video issue. All systems were bought used off of eBay with various known problems.

I'd say that as long as you properly handle the laptop, then you will greatly reduce the chance of having a loose GPU. Don't pick up the system or hold on to it by only one front corner; that flexes the chassis and could contribute to the failure. Some people recommend leaving the system on all of the time in order to prevent thermal expansion and contraction which would occur if it's powered on and off all of the time.

[DrThinkpad]

I have a T40 and two t42s and they both are ok.

[sktn77a]

I've had a T40 (no) a T41 (yes) and 2 T42s (one yes, one no). So that's a 50% GPU failure rate for me. I've got to believe the overall failure rate is much lower than my experience, though.

[ajkula66]

To put it this way: the problem is common enough for a potential buyer/current owner to be concerned, but not paranoid...

Here are my basic experiences in a nutshell:

1) The "safest" machines are T43/p, followed by T42/p with a stamp date of April 2005 or more recent, because of the new soldering process that was implemented around that time.

2) 14" units are more likely to fail than 15" ones.

3) Radeon 7500 is the card most likely to fail, closely followed by FireGl T2. The least likely to fail is V3200, at least in my experience.

Having said all of this, I generally stay away from 14" machines, unless they're T43/p. The only time I'd consider buying an out-of-warranty pre-T43 unit is when I know the owner and his/hers user patterns.

My $0.02 only...

[poshgeordie]

Agree with all of the above.

One of the best ways to avoid or at least greatly reduce the problem is to always carry it properly.

This document may help.

[icebag]

Thank you for all these encouraging replies.

The T4x machines are my current favourites for the desk at home and at work -- with an X40 in my travel bag.

[beeblebrox]

To be honest,
I prefer the T40 or T41 series. Because in the end if they fail they can be easily fixed.

Since the T42 and later series, it is almost impossible to fix them quickly with a heat gun. They are total damage then.

Unless someone please tell me how to heat fix the T42 series, that has the little red epoxy dots around the GPU. I am out of luck with these red dots...

[underclocker]

All I would add is that the problem is significant. I doubt that even IBM would know whether it's one in ten or one in 100, since many die and are just put on an inventory shelf or are sold off or discarded. The important thing to know is that ALL ATI T4x machines have the potential of failing this way.

I've had failed machines of every variety and I wouldn't say one is more likely to fail than the others. There were probably 10 times as many ATI 7500 machines made as others, so they may seem to fail more often, but I've seen many bad T43's and T43p's. I've also had many of the newer T42 boards with the red epoxy dots that have failed.

Some have speculated that the machines fail mostly due to heat / cool cycles, other say it's due to misuse or improper handling. Or, perhaps, it's a combination of both.

So, if the failure is caused by heat / cool cycles, then the failure rate will eventually be 100%. I am hoping (and my gut says) that a properly handled machine won't fail - at least not for a very, very long time. This is somewhat evidenced by the lower failure rate of the 15" models and the ATI based R5x series machines. I've yet to hear anyone with a lot of experience with those machines refute that.

So, for the bottom line, I'd say all can fail if improperly handled, but none have to fail. The most imporant and toughest thing to determine is how a machine was treated prior to you owning it, since that may have the most bearing on the life of these machines.

One note, although we refer to the machines as properly or improperly handled, the bottom line is people are people and they will use these portable computers as they see fit. Lot's of otherwise non-abused T4x machines fail. Many machines do not fail when held with one hand, so I'd say it was a design mistake. In fact, IBM/Lenovo has addressed this by incorporating a roll cage into their more current models (and that was after several tweaks to the original T4x mobo design and T4x case to address the failures).

[madkat]

Recently i went to my wife's workplace (office) and paid attention to the machines they have there
There are only Thinkpads - T41, T42 and T43's.
noted several things - ALL T43's are Intel GPU machines (maybe the've figured things out and bought more reliable ones)
ALL the T41's an 42's were at some point of their life serviced - mainboard, some show signs of abbuse (cracks etc) some are like new...
Some machines have failed TWICE, thus being replaced by T43's ...

It was another confirmation for me that its not a question of IF but of WHEN gpu failure occurs...

Another example is the T43 i've recently bought (for parts, replacing the screen, hdd, fan, and most of the chassis of my Frankenpad) - that looked perfect out-of-the box, not even a shine on the keyboard, almost no dust in the heatsink, stickers like new... but the ATI X300 failing...