BEWARE of Superior Reball and Rework for GPU reballing / fix

[Harryc]

@ poshgeordie, am interested in hearing more about your plans for a US based 'board depot'. I'm assuming it would work something like this; You keep a stock of every T4X board at the partners depot, ready to go. When a client sends his/her board in to the depot (bare or still in the machine?) you send out the equivalent board and/or repair the machine with an equivalent board. Once the depot partner collects enough boards he mass ships them to the UK to save on shipping (carriage) . You fix them in your shop and then ship them back, and the cycle repeats. The thing I'm most interested in is pricing. Would a reworked board from the depot cost the same as you reworking one in your shop? If you could offer them cheaply enough and once word got out that they were reliable, they'd sell like hotcakes. Then again shipping is not free and the 'partner' would have to make some money, so I'd guess the pricing structure would be higher than mail in shop repairs.

[poshgeordie]

@ Harry

I'm not sure if my partner wants his name made public yet (I haven't asked) but I can say he's a well know and knowledgable Thinkpad Forum member.

Yes the way you describe is exactly how it would work.

Price has been a nightmare to work out because of the shipping but we've now got that sorted.

Regarding the end price of a refurbished board I can't say exactly what that will be, but they will be very competitive.
Our No.1 aim is to fulfill the need US members have for decent boards and this need has become increasingly apparent from recent posts.

We're at the stage of building the initial stock of refurbished boards, and what would help us a lot is if there are members out there who have broken T4x boards they don't want, that they could send them to us.
If they could donate them that would be superb, but we'd be prepared to pay for them too.

Would it be OK to put in a WTB in the market place, or to somehow publicise it? It would be a one off ask to get it off the ground.

Roger - I'll answer you later and appreciate your insights etc. I need to digest it and will get back tomorrow.

[Harryc]

The Marketplace post asking for dead boards is fine with me. You may even want to consider having a chat with Bill M. to get another banner and or putting up a permanent Marketplace Ad for the depot. Once you get the depot established, it might be nice if you kicked in a buck for every sale attributed to this forum too . Good luck with the depot.

[RealBlackStuff]

Time to let the cat out of the bag...
I'm happy to announce, that I am the partner in poshgeordie's US end of his enterprise.
And -by coincidence- the funny part is: we are Nick and Dominic.
The US depot will be in: Jefferson Township, PA 18436.
More details will follow in due time (not long now).

Anybody already having dead T4x (or R5x) boards to ship, please PM me for the address.
I/we look forward to serving you.

[killer]

Sounds like a good partnership. Good luck with the venture ... I hope it is a great success.

[Mike Blake]

You know, when I saw the (then) secret partner was well-known here,
I guessed instantly it was probably the man I think of as "RBS".

Good luck with this! With a T42 in my sig I'm of course rooting for you.

[goofyGAguy]

Our No.1 aim is to fulfill the need US members have for decent boards and this need has become increasingly apparent from recent posts.

What sort of warranty (if any) would be offered?

[poshgeordie]

@Goofy... We're sorting out these details but there will be a decent warranty with each one.

Thanks too Harry - good ideas which RBS & I will discuss.

Apologies for all the vagueness. We appreciate your comments and encouragement - it's also great to be able to partner with Dominic (RBS) who I've always respected for his friendliness, honesty, and as a font of knowledge on Thinkpads and laptops generally.

We'll keep you updated with progress and please continue to send in suggestions etc, and especially those broken boards which are gathering dust!

[poshgeordie]

Hi Roger

You'll find that ICE or In Circuit Testing or PCT "processor controlled tests" can pickup on many evasive or discrete faults on a what seems to be "normally" functioning board. Flying Probe testers are also quite handy to detect variance in resistance measurement. Unfortunately these devices are not cheap.

I've used these in the past on production lines but as you say they're not cheap. Also in my day a lot of programming was needed to pick up and correctly apply the right tests to the board nodes etc.

The second as you described (strips running under the chip) is called a package "underlayment".. this is primarily to bond the package to the board to avoid flex "pull away" of the chip during normal operating temperatures. Theoretically speaking, you should not be seeing any BGA contact issues with BGA packages that have underlayment applied.
Almost all epoxies are designed to become pliable at around 140c so it can be "re-worked" with.

Try telling that to whoever applied the stuff! When present it always penetrates into the first 2 or 3 rows of the BGA and must have been applied post-manufacture.
Also we experimented with heating this up to quite high temperatures and it just doesn't soften. It does make me wonder if it's some kind of cyanoacrylate (super glue) rather than epoxy because it's characteristics are so different to epoxy.
It may also be the kind of epoxy which takes at least 24 hours to set but will set in 20 minutes if it's heated; it does become liquidy just before it sets which would explain the creep into the BGA but not the hard (ie clean) edge along the outside of the chip. I'll do some more experimenting with some of this epoxy.

During the period of the loss of contact while the board is in service is when pad damage occurs. Yes, you're right that it does also occur at the time of package lifting during the removal process, but what I'm mainly concerned with is the fact that some of these shops may consider a board "not repairable" when they never even removed the chip off the board to expose the damaged pads. Or if they did lift the chip and found damaged pads and rendered it "not-repairable" when if they knew what they were doing, it could be repaired at the "right facility".

I've never thought about pad damage occuring whilst the board is in service. it makes sense because the solder ball will have been "torn" away from the pad with the possibility of pad damage.
I've not spotted any such damage after the chip has been lifted and the pads cleaned up, and would be very interested in more information as to what to look for - for instance is there a slight bulge on the pad or are you talking about there being no pad there after cleanup?

I developed a micro welding technique a few years ago that gives rework facilities the ability to re-weld the damaged BGA pads, yes there are some "epoxy backed BGA repair pads out there, but they are highly unreliable as reflow temps during reworking would not only breakdown the epoxy and cause movement, but also "re-melt" the trace to pad junction point and pull it away.

The pad / circuit welding unit runs about 10k

Very interested in this Is this a service you can offer on a per pad basis and if so what do you charge and what are your contact details?

[mgb]

... and especially those broken boards which are gathering dust!

I saw one of those people in the mirror this morning! Look forward to this service; I assume we'll see a prominent announcement on this board.

[underclocker]

Look forward to this service; I assume we'll see a prominent announcement on this board.

Congratulatioins on the partnership!

I am also looking forward to a detailed announcement. Please include info about any other swap/repair options and cost info, if possible. A friend just gave me a T40 with a fine GPU, but it doesn't charge the battery any more. Is a mobo swap out an option for that one?!

[poshgeordie]

RBS and I are sorting out the finer details and there should be an official announcement very soon.

@underclocker - Many thanks for you kind words - we're very excited about it.

Our most pressing need at the moment is building up an initial stock of suitable non working boards; ideally we're looking for unsoldered GPU's and SB's but if you'd be prepared to donate it we'd be extremely grateful.

If you could help out , could you contact RBS directly and arrange details - it would be very much appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

[RealBlackStuff]

A friend just gave me a T40 with a fine GPU, but it doesn't charge the battery any more. Is a mobo swap out an option for that one?!

Not our final answer, but initially we'll want (and fix) only boards with GPU and/or Southbridge problems.
We are not a repair-service as such for other problems.
Perhaps at a later stage, when we have enough stock, we may reconsider.

Non-charging is most likely due to one or more of the fuses being blown.
For an overview of these, see this.

[kge420]

I have an A30 board with bad audio if I remember correctly. I have no use for this and am willing to donate it if it is needed/wanted.

[poshgeordie]

I have an A30 board with bad audio if I remember correctly. I have no use for this and am willing to donate it if it is needed/wanted.

We'll get back to you on that - many thanks.

Nick

[VFR_firefly]

I've never had an actual issue with any of the dozen re-ball jobs done by Superior. Not anything that wasn't my own fault or lack of repair skills.

My first (and only) 2 attempts at doing a reflow myself were total failures. So I gave up on destroying boards and sent them both to Dale at Superior. Of course he couldn't fix them because I'd already destroyed them by my ham-fisted attempts at laptop voodoo heat.

Since then I have had about a dozen boards fixed by them for myself and for friends. Only one has ever failed and that was the one that my wife bashed into my knee while I rolled over on the bed as she went to set the R51 onto the previously empty spot of the bed where I sleepily went to put my knee. It hurt my knee so bad that It swelled up at the kneecap. Who knew you could use a Thinkpad as a weapon? I can't really blame the reball job after I kneed the back of the Thinkpad hard enough to knock it out of her hands. I sent the board back and they were still able to repair it the second time and it worked great for a year in a different (uncracked) case after that until a crappy generic powersupply shorted out in a freak fireball and took the computer with it.

I had an issue with another board which I had sent back to Superior but still didn't work. But one of the guys at Superior helped me through that as he suggested I replace every component one at a time until I found what it was that was causing the board not to work or post. It had tested out on their bench so it wasn't the board. I didn't believe them at first but the last thing I tried was the CPU -which must have been bad because as soon as I switched it out the thing came roaring back to life. I've never had a CPU fail like this for me -wouldn't even let the battery charge LED on the monitor light up when it was plugged in. -weird!

I've been using Superior Reball for a few years now (ever since they started doing the T4x/R5x GPU reball almost) and the only one that has ever failed was that one my wife karate-chopped over my sleep-rolling knee hard enough to cause major swelling and bruising of my knee. I've only had 2 that they couldn't fix (because I runed them in an ill-advised attempt to reflow myself) and they communicated the fact that they couldn't fix them after I emailed them a week after I shipped the boards to them. They tried every trick they knew but the boards were just too far gone. And no, they didn't charge me for something they couldn't fix. That's a class act IMHO.

As far as I'm concerned they are a great service and I intend to use them again in the future. I've got a T41 I picked up the other day for $40 and a couple of R51's that a friend found for me for $20 each. All of them exhibit the classic GPU signs and will only post/boot if you push on the bezel over the GPU. One machine is destined as a backup machine for my wife and myself (in case she decides to take out my other knee some sleep-addled morning -did I say she was a little bit clumsy?) and the other two are going to my sister for her 2 kids.

For the nearly-nothing Superior charges for doing an actual reball using the proper machine why would anyone play around doing a voodoo reflow job? Do it right I say.

To those of you who had problems with Superior, I don't know what you did wrong but I've never had an issue communicating with Dale or anyone at Superior. They've shot straight with me and my friends the dozen or so times we've used them and were nothing but professional and efficient. They have made my life much easier -and that's all I ask for!

YMMV

[ajkula66]

VFR_firefly wrote:

To those of you who had problems with Superior, I don't know what you did wrong

And what makes you think that any/all of those people have done anything wrong?

You've had great experiences with SR. Good for you.

Not everyone can claim the same, obviously, and there's absolutely no reason to question the actions of the ones who were less fortunate than you.

BTW, I don't sit on either side of the fence in this "dispute". Very few boards that I do get re-balled are done elsewhere, for more money, but I've NEVER had one come back. I've never dealt with SB personally and have no intention of doing so in the future, but also have no ill will towards them.

[RealBlackStuff]

No need to be afraid of GPU Medics or Superior Reball any longer.
See www.theboardroom.info

[Harryc]

Site looks good. You may want to consider getting a PO box instead of using your home address.

[RealBlackStuff]

We don't live near our official "home" Post Office (ca. 12 miles).
They do deliver packages promptly though.
But there's a much more convenient Post Office from another township only 5 miles away...
Don't know why we were not "redirected" to that PO.
No wonder the USPS is losing money...

[cmarti]

My son's T43p is acting up lately, I think the issue might be the GPU loose.

It freezes and he is getting the blue screen of dead with drivers errors.

How much these motherboards repairs are going for now?

[poshgeordie]

My son's T43p is acting up lately, I think the issue might be the GPU loose.

It freezes and he is getting the blue screen of dead with drivers errors.

How much these motherboards repairs are going for now?

Could you PM RealBlackStuff please.

[i made you a cookie]

First, a post summary: YES, THIS GUY SUCKS. Just needed to make that clear. Now for the actual post...

Hi, everyone. I created my account just to share my current ongoing frustration with SR. I was miffed enough to be tempted to start a whole new thread, but I'll just post it here.

I had a T42 mobo with an ATI Mobility Radeon 9600 that started showing the dreaded GPU problem. The screen would inevitably go black or become filled with colorful artifacts; I put foam between the GPU and palm rest to allow me to press it back in, but eventually this would stop working and I would have to restart to temporarily fix the display.

I knew to be cautious of this guy based on what I had read, but I had two other IDE hard drive/DDR RAM laptops and could use the leftover parts if it didn't work out. He responded to my earlier inquiries within a day, and after I shipped him the motherboard and e-mailed him the tracking number on November 19, he replied, "Great!! Thanks for the business!! I will let you know when we receive the motherboard. Thanks for the business!!"

According to tracking, it arrived a few days later. He never notified me of anything. I gave him the benefit of the doubt and waited a few weeks. He never replied. This is from someone who said in an earlier e-mail, "Our turn time is five business day's from the time we receive your IBM. We may be able to get the repair completed faster." On December 8 and December 16, I sent two e-mails asking for an update. No answer.

I finally made a phone call today. He answered, and I asked about the status of my laptop. After a minute or so, he said something that really made me suspicious. To paraphrase, "Ah, here's what's wrong. You don't have an ATI. You have an Intel GPU. Usually Intels don't have this problem. It's weird that yours does." Well, I knew that was wrong, but even if that was the case, why the hell couldn't he tell me that without me having to ask him three times?! I said, in either case, I'll take it back. He said he'd either have it fixed or shipped today.

Anyways, I did some research (mostly on these forums) to confirm my suspicions that he either mixed up some mobos or is deliberately lying. So I made my case in this e-mail:

"I'm sorry, but you may have mixed up motherboards. I did some research and I'm just about certain that I had an ATI Mobility Radeon 9600 (definitely an ATI at least). This picture matches the grey unit I remembered seeing the when I reapplied thermal paste, including the distinct ATI logo. I remember installing ATI Catalyst drivers. T42's only come with ATI GPU's. R51's come with Intel GMA GPU's, but those only support XGA displays, not the 15" 1400x1050 SXGA+ display that I have. R52's and T43's do have Intel GPU's that support SXGA+, but requires DDR2 RAM rather than DDR (still, if you were going to send an R52 or T43 mobo, I'll gladly take it, as I have some spare DDR2 RAM). The model number was 2373-8ZU, matching an SXGA+ T42 with an ATI Mobility Radeon 9600. Even in the case that this number was wrong, the other evidence suggests an ATI GPU."

So if I don't get a reply to this I'll call him tomorrow. It's a good thing I'm only out $10 shipping and an old, half-working computer, but I'm still mad as hell at this guy.

[RealBlackStuff]

Hint: ALWAYS record the part number (P/N or FRU) and possibly the serial number of items that you ship out for repair!

If you enter the type and serial number off the bottom of your laptop here: http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... yle=lenovo
you can check the PARTS that came with the laptop originally.
Unless it was swapped out earlier, it will tell you the motherboard (Planar in IBM-speak) P/N or FRU.

[i made you a cookie]

Thanks for the advice. I did record the serial number and he has it on the included form I sent him. I just called him and he admitted to a mix-up and said he has the 9600 out of the mobo right now, and is fixing it. According to the site, the mobo should be a 93P3772, which seems to match what I have, including the gray ATI GPU. It's slightly complicated by the fact that I bought it used, within a display-less T42 case, to replace my comatose R51 mobo (also ATI). There's a small chance the previous owner may changed some parts. I should've at least taken some good pictures of mine.

I hope he'll start getting on the re-ball, now. I asked him to give me an update by the end of today; if he doesn't, I'll call him tomorrow. If he eventually gives me a working board, then I might recommend taking the risk on this guy, if you don't need your board for several weeks and you're willing to prod him along with several phone calls.

[Eric Giles]

I recently sent a T41 motherboard with the failing GPU issue to GPU Medics after I saw they were repairing them for a $30 flat fee that included shipping back to you, if you sent them the motherboard only. I researched here first, and saw that things had gotten better with them so I took a chance. I must say, I am very impressed and pleased with the service that I received. I sent the board in, and after they received it I got an e-mail stating it was there. A few days later, I got a call from them saying my motherboard was fixed and they would be shipping it back to me. Now it did take a few days before they shipped it back, but I did receive it.

I have just had a chance to reinstall and test it, and it is working perfectly. We will see how the repair holds up, but I don't see any reason that it won't. So in my experience I recommend them. In fact, I have another T40 coming in with a faulty motherboard that I will be sending their way once I receive it.

Hard to beat getting it fully operational again for only $30.

[mzu2006]

Well, I send them my thinkpad T42 motherboard. The guy who was responding my e-mails (Robert) was very quick in responding initially. He advertised the workaround of 5 days or less. Promised to contact me when they get the board. They received it (according to USPS tracking) this Monday(03/14/2011). I have sent them another e-mail to remind (Wednesday). No replies so far. Will wait 1 more day before calling them. (The details of the problems I had are here: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=94739). I am getting nervous...

[mgb]

I replaced my T43 motherboard with one from The Board Room. Followed the Thinkpad Hardware Maintenance Manual carefully (I would classify my skill level as "moderate"). Working great!!

[RealBlackStuff]

We are not the only ones being ripped off by GPU Medics, see also these:

http://forums.macnn.com/89/macnn-lounge ... pu-medics/
http://iripoff.com/14752/GPU_MEDICS_.html
http://www.ripoffreport.com/computer-se ... -9727e.htm
http://www.ripoffreport.com/computer-se ... -9cbf8.htm
http://www.ripoffreport.com/computer-se ... -98e86.htm
http://answercenter.ebay.com/thread.jsp ... 1614353598

The one time I did send him a board, I told him it was a 'guinea pig' run, so everything went smooth and in a timely manner!
Ever since he has gone down (Dale Robert Miedema, a.k.a. Robert M. is only a one-man-band).
He is also no longer advertising on eBay, presumably after too many complaints to them AND PayPal.

[billp117]

Well GPU Medic's email address and website is no longer working. Also, they never returned my T43p motherboard with 128 mb graphics. All emails went unanswered after they told me the board may not be repairable but they would get back to me. Hmmmm.

It was worth a try...but apparently they cannot overcome the problems involved with reballing. I wish them no harm but it is certainly a buyer beware at this point.