T41p vs T42p vs T43p

[nikkipolya]

The company I work for is selling off its stock of used T41p T42p and T43p laptops (all having 60GB hdd's, and 2GB RAM) to its employees, all are priced the same at Rs.5000 (~$100). All warranties expired and on a as-is-where-is condition. And I am planning to buy one of these. This will be my very first laptop. I have been reading about the T4x series on these forums for the past few days and thanks to you folks, I have gathered a lot of information!

I initially thought I will buy the T43p (2.13Ghz, DDR2) and upgrade the HDD to a new 160 GB PATA drive (60GB is a little on the lower side for me) for Rs. 3000 (~$60). But after reading these forums I realized that the T43p's might give me the 2010 error. I don't mind the error as long as it does not degrade the performance OR give me booting problems outright. I have considered buying the UltraSlim Bay adapter but its price is Rs.4000 (~80$) and therefore, out of my budget. Compatible 80 GB hdd from Lenovo is Rs 7500 (~$150)!!! Couldn't find compatible Seagate HDD models listed in the forums in the market.

So I started considering buying the T42p (1.8Ghz, DDR1). CPU performance is not so much of an issue for me as I love to run Linux with flux/openbox environments. But then I read here about the graphics chip problems with T42p's. And the fact that these laptops were used by the sales folks puts a question mark on the way they might have been handled.

So should I now consider buying the T41p instead (1.7GHz) and upgrade the hdd to 160 GB? Will this work? Am I just being paranoid about the whole thing? What would you folks do if you were in my shoes?

Thanks a ton for your responses!!

[dr_st]

Hi nikkipolya and welcome to the forums.

Looks like you've done some thorough reading and did your homework, so you know your way around. I will try to point out some things you may have missed.

As far as graphic chip failures go, the T42p and T41p are approximately equally likely to fail. T43p fail too, but less frequently, apparently due to an improved manufacturing process. Some late T42p units (manufactured Spring 2005 and later) may also benefit from said process, and if so, their failure rate should be approximately the same as the T43p's, i.e. less than T41p's.

However, there is a downside. Because of the different soldering process, IF those T43p/late T42p fail, fixing them is MUCH more difficult, and requires actual reballing, instead of a relatively simple heat-gun reflow.

So, either way you are taking a risk. And since that is the case, I'd just go for the T43p - since you are getting more performance for the same price, cheaper to upgrade DDR2 RAM, and theoretically lower chance of failure.

Regarding the 2010 error, it is really not that big of a problem. It's just annoying to bypass it every time at boot (kinda like having to input a boot password every time), but after it, the disk works fine with no errors. Also, there are a couple of 160GB drives that are known NOT to give 2010 with a T43. Search on the forums and you will find them.

Also, another thing. It seems (although has not been strictly verified) that 15" T4x units have a somewhat lower failure rate than 14". Some believe so, others believe that it is just due to more 14" units having been produced, so naturally more of them failed as well. But if it is true, and if at least some of the laptops in your company are 15", try getting a 15" T43p. You will also get the benefit of a gorgeous high-quality IPS screen this way.

Good luck.

[killer]

Sound logic from dr_st, and my wife would prefer her T43p if it had a 15" screen.

Whatever you choose it sounds like a good deal if the machine is in good condition.

[irus]

hi nikkipolya
some great deals nikki! since you quote prices in Rs. i would believe you're connected with india in someway. considering that could i request you to buy one t43p for me ?

im looking for t43p for my personal use as my t42 went dead last week could you please tell me if there is a possibilty of getting one from your company sale?

Thanks

[nikkipolya]

Regarding the 2010 error, it is really not that big of a problem. It's just annoying to bypass it every time at boot (kinda like having to input a boot password every time), but after it, the disk works fine with no errors. Also, there are a couple of 160GB drives that are known NOT to give 2010 with a T43. Search on the forums and you will find them.

Hey dr_st,

Thanks for your reply! I couldn't find any of the HDD models listed on the forums here in India. I found a Samsung 160GB ATA disk with model number HM160HC. So are you saying that this will work with the T43p? I really don't mind the 2010 error as long I just have to hit the ESC button. If this is the only issue then I think I will settle with the T43p if I am given a choice.

[EOMtp]

... If this is the only issue then I think I will settle with the T43p if I am given a choice.

That is NOT the only issue. The T43 units run very very hot. Consequently, the fan on the T43 is never quiet.

There is no worthwhile feature or functionality on a T43 that is not also on a T42. Do yourself a big favor and select the T42, if you have a choice, not the T43. (By the way, the T42 units do not have the "Unauthorized Disk" issues.)

[underclocker]

Any PATA drive will work, including the 320GB Western Digital.

The T43p will run hotter and louder than the T42p, but the T42 gets hot, too.

I'd buy the T43p and a second T43p as a spare ($100 is very inexpensive for all those parts, you could sell off a few and keep the motherboard as a free spare!)

Definitely take a 15", if available.

[SaberX]

Hey dr_st,

Thanks for your reply! I couldn't find any of the HDD models listed on the forums here in India. I found a Samsung 160GB ATA disk with model number HM160HC. So are you saying that this will work with the T43p? I really don't mind the 2010 error as long I just have to hit the ESC button. If this is the only issue then I think I will settle with the T43p if I am given a choice.

I have a T43P and just picked up a new Samsung HM160HC drive for it.
It does give me the 2010 error.
But you can set it in the BiOS to keep booting after the two beeps.
At first i thought i would try and find a T43 drive for no errors. But i picked up this new Samsung drive and it gives the error but it's not bad at all.
And it's a nice fast drive.
Under Windows 7 (RC7100) under proformance i get a 5.5.

[ajkula66]

EOMtp wrote:

That is NOT the only issue. The T43 units run very very hot. Consequently, the fan on the T43 is never quiet.

There is no worthwhile feature or functionality on a T43 that is not also on a T42. Do yourself a big favor and select the T42, if you have a choice, not the T43. (By the way, the T42 units do not have the "Unauthorized Disk" issues.)

I'd very much beg to differ. T43/p fan can be very well regulated with TPFC. Hot-running V3200 GPU is easily undervolted with NHC. Late models (like one in my signature) have strengthened frame to minimize chassis flex and added vents for improved cooling as well.

While standard T42 units with 1.8 or lower CPU can run very cool, T42p is not cool by any stretch of imagination, especially in its most desirable, high-end forms with 2.0 or 2.1 CPUs. Of course, all the approaches that can be used on T43/p are available for T42/p as well.

Having owned a fairly scary number of T4x units in all forms, shapes and sizes, I'll say that in my experience T43p is the one least likely to fail, by a huge margin. I've experienced one GPU failure so far, while the number of dead/dying T42/p units that went through my hands is several dozens by now, and I've owned more T43/p machines than their T42/p siblings.

My $0.02 only...

[nikkipolya]

hi nikkipolya
some great deals nikki! since you quote prices in Rs. i would believe you're connected with india in someway. considering that could i request you to buy one t43p for me ?

im looking for t43p for my personal use as my t42 went dead last week could you please tell me if there is a possibilty of getting one from your company sale?

Thanks

Unfortunately its a one per employee only sale. There are more employees wanting to buy them than there are machines being sold. Goes by seniority. I seem to be eligible for this years sale

[nikkipolya]

Any PATA drive will work, including the 320GB Western Digital.

The T43p will run hotter and louder than the T42p, but the T42 gets hot, too.

I'd buy the T43p and a second T43p as a spare ($100 is very inexpensive for all those parts, you could sell off a few and keep the motherboard as a free spare!)

Definitely take a 15", if available.

Unfortunately its a one per employee only sale. But will definitely look for a 15'' and try grabbing one if its available. Thanks!

[systemBuilder]

In the past two months I purchased a T42 and a T42p on ebay, both SXGA+, both 1.8 Ghz.
I bought one as a netbook for my kids, and bought another as a desktop for my retired mom.
In both cases they cost $350 and came with a bonus : either Office 2007 + 2 GB RAM + 9cell, or an IBM 90-day warranty.

I _highly_ recommend the 14" machines. The 15" machines are boat anchors, imho.

So, $100 is a steal. If you're getting MS-Office then the hardware is FREE, go for it !! The T42p FireGL chip is only about 5-10% slower than the ATI 9600 in the T42's, which is the fastest graphics available for T4x machines. If these are SXGA+ machines, you should think : I'm getting 2x the screen and 2x the CPU performance for the cost of a netbook !! Plus, accessories are cheap and plentiful on Ebay !! I thought the T42 SXGA+ was a great machine when I bought my first one new in 2005 for $2200. I'm ecstatic now to be able to get 6x machines for that price ....

[ajkula66]

systemBuilder wrote:

I _highly_ recommend the 14" machines.

I wouldn't. They have a significantly higher GPU failure rate and generally run hotter than their 15" siblings.

[dorronto]

I am using a T43 15" with a 1.73cpu and, yes the fan runs but not all the time and guess what? It doesn't run hot!! George I believe is correct. 15" T43's have more internal room and don't flex as much. Even though I have always stated I couldn't use a 15" laptop (ie. too big) this one so far is working fine for me............I like it.

I believe the 15" T43's do seem to run cooler....................also they are not that loud.

Ron

[killer]

Another fan of T43 with 15" screen here. OK, it is heavier and bulkier then a 14" model but it is quiet, and has a stable GPU set up.

In summary, it is a good work horse.

[sjthinkpader]

Our home computers are desktop replacements. We have had A2x, A3x 15 inch and now T4x/R5x 15 inch. 14 inch were never in the equation. Kids used 14 inch though.

[dcouzin]

I for one am unhappy with my T43 vs. my T42. The T43 a tad faster and will perhaps be more reliable, but its loudness is a serious defect. Working 4½ years with the T42 spoiled me. The newly acquired T43 has a brand new fan and TPFanControl is installed. Still it is so much louder than the T42 that while I can use it during noisy daytime hours I can only use the T42 in the quiet night.
TPFanControl shows that the lowest fan speed on the T42 is about 2950 rpm and much quieter than the lowest fan speed on the T43 of about 3300 rpm. This is determined by the Embedded Controller and TPFanControl can't help it.
In normal use my T42's fan runs at that lowest whisper quiet speed. In normal use my T43's fan runs at its lowest already loud speed often jogging to the next speed.
I suggest you put the two machines side by side, let them run a simple program for 30 minutes, and let your ears decide.

[ajkula66]

@dcouzin:

There can be no argument regarding the fact that any T43 put next to a T42 with a 1.7 (735) CPU will sound like a train coming off the tracks...

These units are ridiculously quiet. The last one I've owned (2373-JXU) for the most part didn't need the fan at all...

However, as the specs go up, so do noise and heat...

Right now I'm in possession of the highest-end 15" T42p (2373-Q1U) and I've ran it along the T43p in my signature. None of them is cool, or quiet, by any stretch of imagination. But the T43p, being a very late model, has additional vents on the bottom, and dissipates heat better than its sibling. T43p gets hot faster, but T42p goes higher in temperature when pushed really hard, and takes slightly longer to cool off.

They are both excellent pieces of engineering, and ThinkPad milestones in their own right.

With that said, I'll agree with you 1000% that one should compare T42/p and T43/p side-by-side, and make his/hers own choices.