Radeon 7500 problems after T40 upgrade to T43 SXGA+ LCD

[kmshuler]

My plea for help,

Has anyone been able to get a T40 with ATI Mobility Radeon 7500 to work with an SXGA+ screen at 1400x1050 resolution in Windows 7 or Vista?

The reason I ask is because I've updated my sister's T40/ATI Mobility Radeon 7500 with a T43 SXGA+ lcd/lid assembly. No hardware problems at all. I just followed the T40 Hardware Maintenance Manual instructions and the screen worked on the first try!

The issue is that Windows 7 defaults to an ATI driver that only allows me to do 1400x1050 by "panning" with the mouse within native 1280x1024 resolution. When I change to the standard VGA driver I can get native 1400x1050 resolution but the bottom 20 pixel lines or so are black on the screen. In other words, I can only see the top 3/8ths of the Windows 7 Taskbar.

I've tried downloading many drivers for the ATI Mobility Radeon 7500 (both hacked and unhacked drivers) and when I use them I can only get the 1400x1050 resolution by panning within the 1280x1024 resolution. The standard VGA driver is the only one that allows me to see 1400x1050 native, albeit missing 3/8ths of the taskbar and running really slow.

Things I've tried so far:

• Tried the 9-8_legacy_vista32-64_dd_ccc driver from ATI at http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/w ... sta32.aspx
• Tried using Mobility Modder tool from DriverHeaven (http://www.driverheaven.net/modtool.php)on the 9-10_vista32_win7_32_dd_ccc_wdm_enu driver from ATI
• Tried using the 6-2_xp-2k_dd_ccc_wdm_enu_30152 driver. This is an older ATI driver that is supposed to support ATI Radeon Mobility 7500.

Thanks in advance for your help!

Kurt

[RealBlackStuff]

When you put in an SXGA+ LCD you also need to swap out the LCD cable. The inverter is the same for both.

[kmshuler]

I received the SXGA+ cable with the LCD assembly. It's the panel, cover, inverter, cable, etc. The panel works fine at resolutions other than 1400x1050. The only way I got 1400x1050 native to work was using the base Standard VGA driver, but then the bottom part of the screen does not render.

I think the issue is either a software driver issue or a problem with the ATI Mobility Radeon 7500's ability to display 1400x1050 native.

Thanks for your reply. Any experiences out there with this?

Kurt

[Harryc]

Try the Omega Drivers v3.8.252 or older.
http://www.omegadrivers.net/archive.php

[ajkula66]

Radeon 7500 will run with no issues on a 15" SXGA+, I see no reason why it wouldn't a 14" SXGA+...

[kmshuler]

Bottom lines so far:

• 1400x1050 is only available when using the Standard VGA driver (with no HW acceleration). Machine is unusable for my sister without HW accel.
• Accelerated graphics at 1280x1024 resolution are available using the Vista_ATI_Radeon_XDDM_6.14.10.6606.zip driver.

Here's what I've done:

• As stated before, the only way I can get native 1400x1050 is with the Standard VGA driver. I reinstalled Windows 7 RC and now there is no more "black bar" by the task bar. I wasn't happy with not having any hardware acceleration (even Solitaire ran super-slow) so I tried the following drivers:
• Omega Driver rad_w2kxp_omega_38252.exe - Could get 1280x1024 full screen. 1400x1050 extended beyond screen and required panning with mouse to see all parts of screen.
• DNA_ATi_4.5.6.1-32x-[Guru3D.com].exe - Similar result as with Omega, but no 1400x1050 option was available for selection in software.
• k1dugar's files with modified atiixpag.inf - Same result as Omega Driver
• Vista_ATI_Radeon_XDDM_6.14.10.6606.zip - Was able to get working with ATI Mobility 900. This is the one I'm using now.
• 9-8_legacy_vista32-64_dd_ccc.exe with and without Mobility Modder - No joy. Driver would not install.
• 6-11-pre-r300_xp-2k_dd_ccc_wdm_38185.exe with and without Mobility Modder - No joy. Driver would not install.

So I'm nearly at my wit's end with this one. My sister doesn't mind the 1280x1024 resolution but I think it looks a little fuzzy. If anyone wants to buy the T43 14.1" SXGA+ screen from me, let me know! It's in nice shape and looks sweet under the standard VGA 1400x1050. Too bad ATI and Lenovo don't support the Radeon 7500 anymore.

Kurt

[ajkula66]

Have you tried the standard IBM XP driver as discussed here:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=76480

[Harryc]

Just out of curiosity, run pcwizard and if it reports your LCD information post it here. Am specifically looking for the manufacturer/part number.
http://www.cpuid.com/pcwizard.php

[RealBlackStuff]

Maybe it's a screen from another brand laptop, that happens to fit in the lid.
Personally I don't know any laptop LCDs with native 1280x1024. That resolution is usually reserved for desktop monitors.
AFAIK there is/was no IBM/Lenovo ever, that used that resolution!
Maybe the contacts on the side of the LCDare damaged, or even the LCD cable is the wrong part.
Check all part numbers against the HMM!

[kmshuler]

Akula66 and HarryC,

I'll try the standard Lenovo driver for XP and get the pcwizard info tonight when I'm back at home. BTW, Akula, are you a Navy submariner? I'm an AF reservist.

RealBlackStuff,
The screen is native 1400x1050 from a T43. It includes the whole assembly (cables, lid, etc.) and works fine at 1400x1050 res with the Standard VGA driver, but no HW acceleration so is unusable in WIndows 7 (can't even play Solitaire...). It's the ATI Mobility Radeon 7500 driver software that forces the 1280x1024 display of Windows 7 RC on the 1400x1050 T43 display.

Thanks very much to all three of you for your help!

Kurt

[Harryc]

Kurt, no problem. You have everyone's curiosity up because what you are doing with the LCD upgrade should work, but there is a an answer out there for why it is not. Looking forward to your reply post.

[RealBlackStuff]

Out of curiosity, do you have the latest (or earlier) BIOS/ECP versions?

[kmshuler]

Guys,
I actually had time to install the Lenovo XP driver (1rd637ww.exe) and received the same results: I can only see 1400x1050 mode by panning on the lcd screen using the mouse. It displays at 1280x1024 on the 1400x1050 monitor with interpolated pixels whenever I use a video driver that uses the ATI Mobility Radeon driver.

My guess: I found in PC Wizard (thanks for the tip!) that the ATI Mobility Radeon 7500 in my T40 only has 16 MB of DDR memory. At 16 bits per pixel (got that number from PC Wizard), I wonder if the card is capable of holding the 1400x1050 images in its memory and is perhaps shrinking it to a max of 1280x1024 to keep them in the Radeon's onboard memory.

This would explain why...

• the standard VGA driver can display native 1400x1050 on this 1400x1050 LCD. It probably uses system memory with no hardware acceleration for graphics or video.
• any of the Radeon drivers max out at 1280x1024

When I worked at TI in the wireless division our mobile phone engineers dealt with the same issue whenever graphic demands were greater than the size of the hardware's frame buffer. You'd be able to use system memory as a backup but get really bad performance.

According to PC Wizard, the LCD screen is genuine IBM:

General Information :
Manufacturer : IBM
Product ID : IBM254D
Model : ThinkPad LCD
Manufacture : 2004
Video Input Type : Digital in 0.7/0.3v
Max. Horiz./Vert. Size : 29 cm / 21 cm
Monitor Size : 14 inches (estimated)
Aspect Ratio : 4:3
Gamma Factor : 2.2
DPMS Active-Off : Yes
DPMS Suspend : Yes
DPMS Standby : Yes
EDID version : 1.3

Features :
Maximum Resolution : 1400 x 1050 @ 60 Hz

Video Modes Supported :
Mode : 720 x 400 @ 70 Hz
Mode : 640 x 480 @ 75 Hz
Mode : 1024 x 768 @ 87 Hz interlaced

Video Modes Standard :
Mode : 1280 x 1024 @ 60 Hz
Mode : 1400 x 1050 @ 60 Hz

Also, here is the PC Wizard information on the ATI Mobility Radeon 7500:

General Information :
Manufacturer : ATI Technologies
Model : ATI MOBILITY RADEON
Bus Type : AGP
Texture Memory : 261 MB
Refresh Rate (min/max) : / Hz

GPU Information :
Number of GPU : 1
Processor : RV100
Bus : 32-bit
Memory Type : 16 MB DDR
GPU Frequency : 144 MHz - [initial : 144 MHz]
Memory Frequency GPU : 144 MHz - [initial : 144 MHz]
DirectX Support : 7.0

GPU Configuration :
Technology CrossFire : No

GPU Timings :
CAS Latency (tCL) : 3 clocks
RAS to CAS (tRCD) : 7 clocks
RAS Precharge (tRP) : 3 clocks
Cycle Time (tRAS) : 6 clocks

Video Bios Information :
Date : 03/07/23
ID : BK5.0.0 VR007.017.007.007.001.001.001.001 l
Catalyst : 6.14.10.6547

General Features :
Width : 320 mm
Height : 240 mm
Pixel per inch : 96x96 dpi
bits per pixel : 16
Colour Bits/Planes : 1

CONCLUSIONS: I'm still at a loss on this one, but the Radeon's onboard memory size of 16MB is the only reason I can think of that would cause this. I don't know enough about this graphics adapter to do the math to prove it, though.

Please let me know what you think, and thanks so much for your help!

Kurt

[Terrahawk]

My guess: I found in PC Wizard (thanks for the tip!) that the ATI Mobility Radeon 7500 in my T40 only has 16 MB of DDR memory. At 16 bits per pixel (got that number from PC Wizard), I wonder if the card is capable of holding the 1400x1050 images in its memory and is perhaps shrinking it to a max of 1280x1024 to keep them in the Radeon's onboard memory.

I'm afraid that I'll have to rain on this theory - 1400 x 1050 pixels is 1,470,000 pixels. Multiply that by 2 for 16 bits per pixel and that gives a results a little less than 3 MB. Even with 16 MB of RAM, it should display fine.

My X31 with a 16MB Mobility Radeon M6 (not even a 7500) can display a full 1680 x 1050 but on an external monitor, at 32 bits per pixel.

My guess is the problem is somewhere else, although you've already looked at my first guess which is the driver.

[ajkula66]

What is the exact 7-character model number of that T40, 237?-???

[kmshuler]

It's 2373-XX4

[RealBlackStuff]

According to IBM/Lenovo your Model 2373-XX4 doesn't exist...
What does the first page of your BIOS say in the first 7 characters of the System Unit Serial Number?

[ajkula66]

Well, I just got this:

Product: ThinkPad T40 2373-XX4 [change]
Operating system: All [change]

Original description: P M 1.3GHz, 256MB RAM, 30GB 4200rpm HDD, 14.1 XGA(1024x768) TFT LCD, 32MB ATI Radeon 7500, 16x10x24x/8x CD-RW/DVD(slim), Modem(CDC), Ethernet(LOM), Wireless upgradeable, Secure Chip(TCPA), UltraNav, 6 cell battery, WinXP Pro

So the story about only 16MB VRAM showing up doesn't sound good to me...this should definitely drive a SXGA+ LCD, no questions asked.

Why do you need W7, though? This card is clearly not supported, and more you push it, more issues you will see...

[sjthinkpader]

I think the Vista driver for T40/T41/T42 will give you 1400x1050 in Windows7. You need to install Vista, extract the video driver. Then apply this drive after installing Windows7.

http://vinf.net/2009/01/12/windows-7-an ... -solution/

[kmshuler]

Hello all,
I confirmed that the machine number is 2373XX4 in the bios.
BIOS version = 3.23 (which is the latest)
Embedded Controller Version = 3.04 (also the latest)

Also, I tried to run my 1920x1200 Dell monitor at full resolution using the external VGA cable but no joy. Max resolutions were 1400x1050 on the external monitor simultaneous with 1400x1050 with "panning" on the notebook LCD.

I want Windows 7 because it is so much faster than Vista and I anticipate fewer tech support calls from my sister than if I had XP or Vista installed. I could be wrong but I've been using Windows 7 on all my computers and have been very impressed with the speed and stability.

NEXT ACTION: I'm going to load Vista on the T40 and extract the video driver, then try to install it in Windows 7. I'll let everyone know how it works out!

Kurt

[ajkula66]

Don't even bother.

Vista doesn't support Radeon 7500. It is too weak of a GPU to be supported. There is no Radeon 7500 driver included for that very reason.

Go back to XP, and run it as long as it's supported, which means 2014. You'll be able to run all the desired resolutions with no issues.

I've ran Vista and W7 on machines way more powerful than T40 and was displeased, especially with Vista.

[kmshuler]

OK, I'm going to reinstall the T40's original LCD screen. Let me know if anyone wants a 14" SXGA+ LCD assembly from a T43! I've also listed it in the marketplace.

Many thanks to all of you!

My next project is to update my 15" T43 (has ATI X300) to an SXGA+ screen. Hopefully I can get my hands on one!

Kurt

[db130]

this ebay seller claims that "For some reason ThinkPad's that came with ATi Radeon 7500 and Intel 900 video chips don't work with high-resolution screens like this - they produce a lot of digital noise or do not show any image at all" on his ebay ads for SXGA screens:

ebay item # 360207329059

can someone confirm/deny? i am looking into upgrading from a T40 2373-4CU's XGA(ATi Radeon 7500) to SXGA in XP.

[RealBlackStuff]

The OP's machine is supposed to have 32MB, but only shows 16MB, so either his/her motherboard was swapped for one with a 16MB ATI 7500, or that GPU-RAM is faulty.
Either way, IBM never released ANY T4x models with ATI 7500 and an SXGA+ screen, so I assume this combination is not possible.
Every T4x which came with an SXGA+ screen has an ATI 9000 GPU version.
So the bitter truth is: T4x with ATI Radeon 7500 do NOT support SXGA+.

Looking at the price for that eBay LCD ($175.-), you can buy almost buy a whole used T4x for that money, WAAAAY overpriced!

[db130]

The OP's machine is supposed to have 32MB, but only shows 16MB, so either his/her motherboard was swapped for one with a 16MB ATI 7500, or that GPU-RAM is faulty.
Either way, IBM never released ANY T4x models with ATI 7500 and an SXGA+ screen, so I assume this combination is not possible.
Every T4x which came with an SXGA+ screen has an ATI 9000 GPU version.
So the bitter truth is: T4x with ATI Radeon 7500 do NOT support SXGA+.

Looking at the price for that eBay LCD ($175.-), you can buy almost buy a whole used T4x for that money, WAAAAY overpriced!

you assume... incorrectly!

i picked up a 2.0Ghz SXGA 14" t43 parts laptop today, my 1.5Ghz XGA 14" t40 now is a 2.0Ghz SXGA 14" T40, on an ATi Radeon 7500(although my GPU is 32mb). looks just fine on XP running 1400x1050.

oh yeah it also came with a wireless a/b/g card to replace my b/g card as well as a long fan! it was quite the treasure trove of parts.

[RealBlackStuff]

I have to be more specific apparently, there are NO T40/T41/T42 with ATI Radeon 7500 AND SXGA+.
T43 are quite a different kettle of fish, and do not join in this equation!

[The Spirit of X21]

So the bitter truth is: T4x with ATI Radeon 7500 do NOT support SXGA+.

That explains why I couldn't upgrade my T40 with an SXGA+ LCD a few months ago... I thought it was the panel

[db130]

please tell me what i am looking at on my ATi Radeon 7500-equipped *T40*:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2634/410 ... 4c8f_b.jpg

it happens to be a T40 with a SXGA+ LCD from a T43, running at 1400x1050 resolution.

why is the truth bitter....

Admin edit: Removed 320+ KB inline image and changed to link.

[Harryc]

Since (2) members who tried this upgrade reported failed results in this thread, and (1) member reported success, I think it is safe to conclude that this upgrade is possible, but not likely to succeed. I wish I knew why . If everyone reported their systemboard part #, the machine type/model of the laptop, their BIOS version, and the LCD model# that would be a starting point.

[The Spirit of X21]

why is the truth bitter....

I've successfully replaced LCD panels before in T4x machines - maybe it was the panel that was broken after all?