T42 or T6X series?

[brucehe]

I currently have a t42 SXGA+ and like it a lot. I am considering upgrading my wife's t21. Since the t42's have now been around a bit (I have had mine for 3 years) is there so much risk of getting one with GPU problems that I should consider the T6X series instead. It seems like they are about double the price on ebay but if I get a T4X series that dies in a year it might be worth it. Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Bruce

t42 SXGA+ 14"
t21

[ZaZ]

In most ways the T6x machines are better machines, except maybe the keyboard and it's thicker. The GPU issue is definitely a concern. The T43s are less likely to have the GPU problem, though it is not zero and you've got the 2010 error with the T43s. The problem with eBay is you never know what your getting. It might be fine, but it might not be and you won't know until down the road. If you're getting an XGA machine and don't mind the Intel GPU, that might be a possibility.

[ssd_thinkpad]

Considering the T4x 2010 error you can put any pata hdd in a ultrabay pata hdd slot.

I had both the T42 and the T60 and prefer the T60 by a wide margin. If you need a new battery or want to dock it (dock has 4 x usb 2.0 ports vs 1 x usb 1.x), the T60 is superior.

The T4x looks "sexier", though

[Kyocera]

I've owned several of both models and would definately go with a T60.

The T60 IMHO is a solid freakin machine, the 14" form factor was anyways.

[scr71822]

If you buy from a reputable ebay seller that offers a warranty and actually says they test the equipment you will probably be alright.

[Harryc]

You'd be much better off buying any used Thinkpad from a seller here who has been around awhile vs. EBay.

[virge]

The T4x looks "sexier", though

+1

I have both. The T60 is a "beefier" machine. Feels like you can knock someone over the head with it and then continue working. The T4x is more elegant, but also more fragile.

I had both the T42 and the T60 and prefer the T60 by a wide margin. If you need a new battery or want to dock it (dock has 4 x usb 2.0 ports vs 1 x usb 1.x), the T60 is superior.

Righto on the battery. As for the dock, it depends on the dock model. My T42P I use for work is in a docking station (not port replicator) and it has 4 USB 2.0 ports. As far as I know, all T4x docks/replicators have USB 2.0. Other than the battery issue, the T4x has the advantage of cheaper and more commonly available accessories.

Overall valuewise, probably not too much difference. A T6x may cost double the price of a T4x but you'll be getting twice the lifespan as well.

[ajkula66]

For me personally, it's the little things that matter, like the keyboard which is so much nicer on T4x when compared to T6x...and yes, absence of the "windows" key (which is a blasphemy to begin with on a ThinkPad, at least in my book)...that nuisance got there with *6* series

T60/p if properly set up and maintained would provide reliable service for years to come, and although not infallible, they are more abuse-resistant than their T4x siblings...and can be found for a reasonable amount of money on today's subdued market...

On another note, T4x is likely the prettiest ThinkPad ever, especially in 14" guise with no touchpad...in my opinion, that is...

My $0.02 only

[ryan1212]

So true, T4x 14" machines are absolutely beautiful, I almost regret selling mine but I love my T400.

If looking at a used machine I would recommend a T60. They can be found very well priced, no widescreen, and ATI\intel GPUs. Some of the T61s have defective GPUs from Nvidia.

Just for web browsing with the era of flash webpages T4x machhines really are starting to show their age. The T43s I am sure are much better than the T40 I had, but I think a T60 would be the way to go.

If looking for new, the lenovo outlet sometimes has some real steals, just beware warrantys are no longer extendable past 1 year.

[yak]

Coming from T41 to T60 I can only say: go for the T60. Core (2) Duo CPUs, SATA HDDs and the roll cage (which makes it sturdier) while still being in a 14.1" non-widescreen form factor, make it the obvious choice. Just be sure to get an SXGA+ model if you like higher resolutions. Or, if you're into FlexViews, a 15" SXGA+ or UXGA model.

One note about the design. While I did consider the T4x design superior shortly after the switch, I learned to appreciate the T60 too. It is a much cleaner, more consistent design with less notches. The hinges are of the same width on a 14.1" model for example. I like everything about it except maybe the TrackPoint buttons. I miss the old ones.

As for the keyboard, I'm not a keyboards expert but I do love to type on my T60. If the keyboard is inferior compared to T4x then only by a small margin. Personally I like it even better because it has no flex and it did on my T41. I also like the Windows keys as I use them sometimes.

IMHO, T60 is the best recent T-series ThinkPad. Later ones were primarily screwed by widescreen displays or buggy components.

[dr_st]

I own a 15" T42, a 15" T60 and a 14" T60. I have never owned a 14" T4x, but have played with quite a few of them on various occasions.

I mostly agree with yak here. Most specifically he summarized the essense of the T60 design in a very nice way. I too prefer T60 to a T4x in terms of overall design.

Ugly Thinkpads did not start until T61, and looks like Lenovo is finally going back to cleaner designs on the T series at least, with the T400s and the glimpses of T410 that have spurted on these forums.

I am very happy that the T60 keyboard has Windows keys, as I use them for many useful shortcuts. On the T42 I used the keyboard customizer utility to assign Right Alt to it, which is not too bad, but not as good (to me) as having a dedicated key.

FredGarvin also mentioned the two most noticeable advantages of a T4x - thinness and keyboard quality. When comparing 14" units, somehow the T4x does not look thinner, but feels thinner when you are carrying it in your hand. Although, in truth, who cares? If anything, it may be a bit lighter, but also by a pretty negligible amount.

The keyboard thing is more serious to me. While there is not a general consensus, more people will agree that the keyboard of a T4x is more solid with better feedback and less flex than a T60. This has been my experience with all T4x/T60 units I used, including all of my own. With T61 and T400 it has gotten worse. T60 is still quite good most of the time, esp. 14" units, but definitely not as good as T4x. Good news is that most of the flex can be gotten rid of, and then the keyboard of the T60, although will not achieve the T4x rigidity, will still feel very solid.

I made a very long thread on the subject, with the solution I found outlined:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=77897

Another small thing which personally bothers me a little bit about the T60 is the flex of the bezel above the keyboard, on the left side. Compared to a T4x, the plastic there is very thin, or there is just not enough support of the frame underneath it. But it is only noticeable if you actually try to flex it. And why would you?

The sweet spot for me would be a T60, with a Core 2 Duo T7200/7400/7600 CPU. These have 4MB of cache, are quite snappy (better performing than many entry-level CPUs even on moder machines), and 64-bit capable (not that it matters much due to the chipset 3GB limit). The choice to me is between SXGA+ 14" for portability or SXGA+ 15" Flexview for screen size. I have both and love them both for different reasons. UXGA 15" is very nice, but unless you have a particular need for such a high resolution, it is probably not the best investment, since it is available only on premium-priced T60p and renders text a tad too small for every day tasks.

[exTPfan]

I have a T42 and a T60, and I use the T42: quieter, better keyboard (no windows keys), thinner, lighter, prettier, and with XP I don't notice any difference in speed.

[Norway Pad]

Couldn't avoid noticing that the T400s is mentioned above. And that outlines the one thing I have never liked with the T6x compared to the T4x: The looks. I still remember when my old company started getting the T60 and later the T61's. Because my T30 had special technical software installed, I didn't get any new laptop. But I made sure to bring the new T6x's home and compare them to the T30 and the T43. I remember I was struck by how big and "boxy" they seemed, compared to my older ones. A style that was continued to the T400/T500. So it was with great pleasure I noticed the launch of the T400s. Finally the slim lines of the T4x are back!

The question is if you should chose your laptop depending on how it looks or how it works. Performance wise the newer ones were of course better. And I suspect I probably end up adding a T60 Dual Core to my collection during next year. But if it should come to pass that I for some reason skip the T60/61 generation and buy a brand new or slightly used laptop, the T400s is my new favorite among the newer Thinkpads.

Ouch, seems like I went a bit off topic here and went far away from the question asked..

[dr_st]

But I made sure to bring the new T6x's home and compare them to the T30 and the T43. I remember I was struck by how big and "boxy" they seemed, compared to my older ones. A style that was continued to the T400/T500. So it was with great pleasure I noticed the launch of the T400s. Finally the slim lines of the T4x are back!

Despite what Lenovo's naming scheme might suggest, the design consistency was actually broken between T60 and T61, and the T400/T500 continue that of the T61. Your comments suggest that you were perhaps looking at a T61. Or perhaps your T6x was 15"/15.4" wide. When comparing similar-sized machines, a T60 is by no means bigger and only slightly more boxy than a comparable T4x. And the T30 is a brick compared to them - much thicker and heavier.

[Norway Pad]

I looked at both T60 and T61, and they all had 15" or 15.4" screens. But my first meeting with T61 is closer in time than the first time I saw the T60. So I guess I remember that better, and that was the one of these two that I really saw as boxy. You are right about that

But I really didn't see the T30 as bigger. Maybe thicker, but definately not bigger.