Warranty Ethics

[kev009]

I hate to troll.

I'm obviously mostly preaching to the choir here.

Please keep this in the back of your mind.

Just because IBM has excellent serivce doesn't mean you should abuse it. Since many of us buy our laptops with IBM discount programs, I honestly believe some of us cost IBM more money in the long run. If something is not up to your standards, or broken spend some time investigating it and trying to fix it yourself. Of course if a component fails, replace it. It however would benefit us all to use common sense and ethics when and if we need to make a claim. In the long run it will lead to price reductions and possibly more money into R&D, both very good things for the TP community as a whole.

This especially holds true for the lose battery on the T42. Mine arrived this way. Using the reccomend fix found on this forum, I am more than happy with the way it fits now. Lithium Ion batteries are hard on the enviornment too so this can't be a better example. I called my sales person and let him know of the quirk. I think this is the best way for us to continue to enjoy the ThinkPad experience.

[Kenn]

I'd just like to point out (and maybe this is just a quibble with the language), that if something is truly broken, while it may be generous, practical, magnanimous, and even noble to try to fix it yourself, I feel absolutely no obligation or responsibility to spend my own time and money attempting to remedy something that I paid full price (+ warranty) to have fully-functioning.

Quite honestly, I feel this extends to functioning parts that are materially different from samples or other units of the same model (like the Chinese model keyboard).

IMO, the loose battery doesn't fall into this category. I don't consider the looseness a defect per se, and the lighter-to-the-hook trick is an A+ solution.

[kev009]

Of course there is no obligation for time, and definantly not money! Especailly since you paid full price. I however paid the student discount price. I will attempt to return the favor to IBM by taking good care of my machine and being honest in a case when something goes wrong. I believe everything in life is a two way street. In the case the HD fails or something like that, I would sure use the warranty though. Maybe my post was pointless.. asking people to use common sense, or just driving home a given .

[Leon]

well said, kev009

[ian]

well said, kev009

Comments like this are one of the reasons I no longer spend time here. Today is an exception, however (sadly) as usual the quality remains the same - some posters seem hell bent on having an enormous total in their "number of posts" regardless of the fact that 98% are "Yes" - really extremely useful for everyone...

As it happens I disagree, for what it's worth, with kev009 and am inclined to support the comments of Kenn - but then it's so subjective isn't it?

[mdarnton]

Basically, there are always going to be people who try to do the right thing, regardless of the rules, and those who try to bend a situation to their advantage, no matter what. We all obviously have very different opinions on this type of stuff. One group makes life easier for everyone; the other makes it harder for everyone except themselves. I know which group I prefer to live and work with, and why. The others, I try to avoid as much as possible.

[slagmi]

I work for a computer manufacturer (not IBM) and I can tell you that sort of thing (bogus warranty claims) is a minor expense not a major one. Though it happens, it may tranlslate into 2$ in the price of that next Thinkpad not 50 or 100$.

How easy customers can get away with it depends more on who they get on the phone than what company or policy is involved.

And unfortunately no rant here (no offense intended) will change the world...

[atlacatl]

I think there is a limit on the claims. I.e. if something is not broken, and you ask IBM to fix it, then it border lines on fraud and unethical...

However, if I'm paying premium for a premium laptop, I should get a premium laptop - Free of most defects...I don't believe that is too much to ask...Springy keyboard, hey, change it...

Also, when we buy a computer, we are already paying for the extra insurance - And that's all it is: an insurance - I'm sure some actuary came up with the actual cost of $239.99 for a 2 year extended warranty. Trust me, those forumulas are already accounting for fraudulent claims and orange juice spills...

If we were to try to fix everything that is under warranty, or you are already paying inssurance for, we would suggest to try to fix your cavity yourself and save money on the dentist insurance system, so that the cost stays down...Would you even try putting a fill in your own tooth? It's pretty easy, however, I wouldn't do it...

There is a limit, however, premium price, requires premium product - On both ends, is just the cost of making business...If something is broken, get IBM to fix it...

[Kenn]

Basically, there are always going to be people who try to do the right thing, regardless of the rules, and those who try to bend a situation to their advantage, no matter what. We all obviously have very different opinions on this type of stuff. One group makes life easier for everyone; the other makes it harder for everyone except themselves. I know which group I prefer to live and work with, and why. The others, I try to avoid as much as possible.

I think the thing here is that here is that nobody feels that making a valid warranty claim for a defective part is bending a situation or making it harder for everyone else. Fortunately, we're not talking about the people you describe above

Also, when we buy a computer, we are already paying for the extra insurance - And that's all it is: an insurance - I'm sure some actuary came up with the actual cost of $239.99 for a 2 year extended warranty. Trust me, those forumulas are already accounting for fraudulent claims and orange juice spills...

Right on. Extended warranties and accidental protection plans exist and are pushed so heavily primarily because they are a profit source, and one with high margins. Their success relies on the fact that a large percentage of legitimate claims are not filed due to laziness, forgetfulness, or having lost the paperwork.

When it comes down to it, I don't think anybody here is advocating fraud. It just comes down to a question of personal taste - whether or not you invoke your warranty for problems that some may consider trivial.

[Champ]

hmm let me let you in a little secret

those proteciton plans etc. are underwirtten by a insurance company so IBM never takes a loss =) they're not experts in insurances and owuld never wants to sell insurances so they're just reselling protection so to speak.

Warantees. Once IBm PC div is sold, IBM Global srevices would love everytime you call. Lenovo will pay them. so it's all win win

so if you like IBM just wait till Lenovo is sold before swwapping out random things like baterries, keyboards etc.