1.8" SATA to 2.5" IDE converter?

[ajkula66]

@Squeeto:

Honestly, all of us that were watching this thread should throw you $5-10 for posting the SSD performance data and pretty much preventing anyone else from buying it. Just to recoup your losses...

Very, very disappointing. And I was very close to pulling the trigger on it...

I owe you one. Seriously. And you can call me on it anytime.

[Squeeto]

Drive aligned with:
Create partition primary size=5000 align=1024



And the results:

[Squeeto]

I need to get this drive up to DMA mode 6.
My old failing drive would do mode 5 at least.

[ChugokuOtaku]

if the info reflected in diskpar is correct, then this is probably one of the first SSDs I've seen that doesn't have 4K sectors. I noticed that the drive specs on their site mentions the SSD having 512byte sectors, but I thought that was probably a mistake. Evidently this is truly a one of a kind SSD that we all should avoid.

@Squeeto:
I'd go as far as asking the site for a return/refund since the drive doesn't perform anywhere near the advertised speeds of 85/70 for read/write. Having poor 4k random read/write is less surprising than failing to even read advertised sustain read/write speeds.

[Squeeto]

Better throw this out for the next person:

My bios holds DMA to mode 2. Or probably the SSD isn't backwards compatible to tell the bios that it is capable of mode 5. Either way, I have one of those Phoenix bioses that has like 3 settings you can adjust - date/time, ECP/EPP and boot order! So I updated the driver to nVidia's instead of MicroSoft's.


This works for a nForce3 chipset-



CDM-




This probably has no relation to your ThinkPad's so I will quit posting if you say so.

[ChugokuOtaku]

Judging from the updated benchmarks, I guess if you were able to bench the drive on a DMA 6 capable southbridge, it might actually hit advertised speeds. I'm still very much in disbelief that this SSD has worse 4K random read/write than mechanical drives. Even those crappy SSDs from Kingspec can do better than a 10,000rpm Velociraptor when it comes to seeking. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a future firmware update that can improve the 4K random read/write.

@Squeeto:
The info you're posting is very helpful to many of us here. Feel free to post any additional info you find regarding the SSD.

Can we have this thread moved over to the General hardware/software questions section? The info here is applicable to many other models and not limited to Thinkpads either.

[MyDigitalSSD]

Those speeds are really not acceptable for running an OS like windows. I will see what we can do to improve it ASAP and report back.

MyDigitalSSD

[RealBlackStuff]

@ChugokuOtaku:
don't want to reread all pages, but since you have a T43, you also have SATA within tantalizing reach!
Remove the SATA-PATA bridge, install a SATA connector instead of the PATA connector, and off you go.
A bit of guts is required, and about 1 hour of work.
I've done it, and believe me, it's worth it!
This thread should really be turned into a "sticky": http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=94308

[ChugokuOtaku]

@ChugokuOtaku:
don't want to reread all pages, but since you have a T43, you also have SATA within tantalizing reach!
Remove the SATA-PATA bridge, install a SATA connector instead of the PATA connector, and off you go.
A bit of guts is required, and about 1 hour of work.
I've done it, and believe me, it's worth it!
This thread should really be turned into a "sticky": http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=94308

A friend of mine is actually trying to help me get a dead T43 mobo to practice my soldering skills prior to modding the real thing. I might actually mod my X41 first since I just bought an 80gig Intel X18-m G1 recently. Still working on acquiring the guts part

Those speeds are really not acceptable for running an OS like windows. I will see what we can do to improve it ASAP and report back.

MyDigitalSSD

Please keep us posted!

[Squeeto]

Those speeds are really not acceptable for running an OS like windows. I will see what we can do to improve it ASAP and report back.

MyDigitalSSD

I'll keep watching.

[Owen_Meaney]

First of all, thanks to all of you for sharing your experiences in upgrading the older Thinkpads with SSDs.

I am a loyal user of my T42, now over 6 years old and still running without a glitch.
I looked at upgrading to a SSD from the factory 60GB 5400rpm Hitachi drive little over a year ago but at that time the performance of the SSDs was still hit and miss and the cost prohibitive.
After reading the posts in this forum however I gathered that it does make sense today and decided to order the 2.5" ATA to 1.8" uSATA adapter through Amazon, the caddy designed by Thomas through Shapeways, and with the Crucial SSD no longer on offer decided to go with the Kingston 64GB SSDNOW V+180 drive.
The technical setup really works well with the caddy designed by Thomas (brilliant piece of work designing it and I like the innovative concept of rapid manufacturing), the hard drive bay can simply be closed again as before and all components are securely stored.

Once I installed the SSD in my T42 it was simply a matter of installing windows 7 Ultimate using the DVD and this proceeded without any issues at all.
Boot times have dramatically improved under the new setup versus running Windows Vista on the Hitachi hard drive (used to take up to 5 minutes to boot into a workable desktop area; now it takes less then one minute with Windows 7)
The only driver issues I had under windows 7 were the wireless LAN (as usual windows did not select the right one but I knew this from previous installations of Vista) and the issue where windows was showing sound output but the Thinkpad not actually producing sound.
Installing the Ultranav & hotkey drivers using Thinkvantage System Update 4 eventually solved this.
CrystalDiskInfo provides the temperature readout from the SSD without problems as opposed to some of the other experiences posted here.

In order to measure performance improvement, I ran CrystalDiskMark on my previous Windows Vista setup using the Hitachi hard drive and did the same on the SSD now under Windows 7 Ultimate.
(it needs to be noted that the windows vista installation was an old one and the HDD was 90% full at the time which probably did not help)
The results are as follows:

Windows Vista on Hitachi HDD vs. Windows 7 on Kingston SSD
---------Read- Write vs. Read- Write
Seq----- 24.48- 21.29 vs. 81.93- 76.42
512K---- 13.96- 15.16 vs. 79.02- 49.44
4K------- 0.24- 0.51 vs. 15.31- 18.74
4K QD32 0.39- 0.51 vs. 16.69- 29.69

In line with the boot time, performance in CrystalDiskMark has also improved dramatically as you can clearly see.
I was ready to buy another pc given the poor performance under windows vista with the HDD but with this new setup I can comfortably use my T42 again for my day-to-day web browsing and office applications. The only real downside is the lack of HD video performance but I can live with that.

To conclude, I can highly recommend the switch to a SSD in the T42!

[Tycho]

Same results as the poster above. A terrific solution for T4x laptops. And cheap. SSD cost for me was $72. Then $15 for the adaptor. $87 total for an 80 GB SSD. Fine by me!

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 65#p651165

[lophiomys]

Another benchmark with a T42p 2374-HTG featuring the Shapeways Caddy by tomatenfisch
and the 1.8inch micro-SATA to 44-PIN IDE PATA adapter attached to an Intel 320 1.8inch with FW...362
The timing was made under real world conditions with an Antivir Guard active, while doing
light internet browsing in the forums. The installation is only a few hours old.

More informatoin English language can be found in the German forum.
First Benchmarks with Intel320 in T42p using the Caddy

Code: Select all

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
CrystalDiskMark 3.0.1 (C) 2007-2010 hiyohiyo
                           Crystal Dew World : http://crystalmark.info/
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
* MB/s = 1,000,000 byte/s [SATA/300 = 300,000,000 byte/s]

           Sequential Read :    73.425 MB/s
          Sequential Write :    70.869 MB/s
         Random Read 512KB :    64.533 MB/s
        Random Write 512KB :    71.391 MB/s
    Random Read 4KB (QD=1) :    13.266 MB/s [  3238.8 IOPS]
   Random Write 4KB (QD=1) :    20.303 MB/s [  4956.7 IOPS]
   Random Read 4KB (QD=32) :    16.357 MB/s [  3993.3 IOPS]
  Random Write 4KB (QD=32) :    30.483 MB/s [  7442.2 IOPS]

  Test : 1000 MB [C: 93.0% (27.2/29.3 GB)] (x5)
  Date : 2011/11/03 22:10:52
    OS : Windows XP Professional SP3 [5.1 Build 2600] (x86)

Edit 2012-01-06: added code tags

[Squeeto]

Those speeds are really not acceptable for running an OS like windows. I will see what we can do to improve it ASAP and report back.

MyDigitalSSD

MyDigitalSSD
Can you give me an update?
I really wish now that I had returned this drive, sorry. Forget the lack of green bars in CrystalDiskMark, the continual hesitations are annoying.

[matt!]

I designed a caddy for internal use of the 1.8" SATA to 2.5" IDE converter within thinkpads (approved for T42 14" and 15"). If anybody needs one, too, you can order it from shapeways.

Thanks so much for going to the trouble of creating this! I've just ordered one of these for my X31. I'll let you know how it goes...

[matt!]

My parts arrived, but I realised my SSD is already 2.5". D'oh!

So if anybody wants a good deal on the Shapeways caddy and 1.8" SATA to IDE adapter drop me a private message. sold

[Johan]

So if anybody wants a good deal on the Shapeways caddy and 1.8" SATA to IDE adapter drop me a private message.

Matt: I sent you a PM earlier today...

Johan

[matt!]

Got it, just replied

[matt!]

Sold to Johan.

[dandreye]

Hi All,

Many thanks to the authors who wrote about X41 and T43 mod for SATA in several threads I've seen including this one.

May I just ask which SATA version I will get upon completion of the T43 mod and which PATA version is implemented (or rather simulated) in the original T43 using the bridge?

This affects my SSD choice:
- will I be able to use a SATA 2 or 3 in my T43 at all? (e.g. OCZ Agility 3)
- will the max speed be additionally restricted by T43, if so to which limit?


Many thanks in advance,

Dmitriy

[ajkula66]

@dandreye:

Welcome to the forum!

Your modded T43/p (or R52, X41/T) will be locked into the original SATA I (1.5) speeds.

Happy upgrading.

[dandreye]

@ajkula66:

Thank you for your immediate reply: it came right as I was polishing my original inquiry )

Since SATA 1 @ 1.5Gbps = 150MBytes/s seems like I won't get anywhere near OCZ Agility 3's advertised max speeds (assuming this SSD is compatible with T43 at all)? If so I'm probably better off buying a less expensive SSD supporting SATA 1 and whose max speed is closer to the SATA 1 limit.

Many thanks,

Dmitriy

[Nomgle]

@ajkula66:

Thank you for your immediate reply: it came right as I was polishing my original inquiry )

Since SATA 1 @ 1.5Gbps = 150MBytes/s seems like I won't get anywhere near OCZ Agility 3's advertised max speeds (assuming this SSD is compatible with T43 at all)? If so I'm probably better off buying a less expensive SSD supporting SATA 1 and whose max speed is closer to the SATA 1 limit.

The speeds you refer to are simply the max speeds for large file transfer - they're mostly irrelevent for Operating System use. What gives an SSD it's performance as a system drive, is the low access time - and any modern SSD offers very low access time whether used with SATA1 or SATA2 or SATA3.
Short Version : Don't worry about advertised max speeds or SATA version for system drive use - any modern SSD will work just fine.

It's worth pointing out that there have been all kinds of problems with some of OCZ's drives - Intel / Crucial / Kingston drives are usually more reliable (but be sure to update the firmware on whatever drive you choose - there have been issues with certain firmware versions from most manufacturers) !

[ajkula66]

True...but here's my gripe with the whole SSD on a SATA-modded T43/p concept...

a) I don't like XP on a SSD, even after tweaking. In my book, if one is intent on properly utilizing a SSD, they need W7.

b) I don't enjoy W7 on a T43/p for several reasons - battery life loss and heat gain being the two most important ones...

All of that said, my modded T43p is *very* happy with a conventional 7200rpm drive, running XP...as was the other (recently sold) one...

My experiences only.

[ChugokuOtaku]

I don't like XP on a SSD, even after tweaking. In my book, if one is intent on properly utilizing a SSD, they need W7.

While I personally haven't tried XP on an SSD, I've always been curious about its performance. I've considered installing an SSD in my T22. Can you elaborate on what drawbacks there are to using XP on an SSD versus a 7200rpm drive(assuming partitions are aligned)?

[ajkula66]

Out-of-the-blue freezing kept on being one of the biggest issues even after all the tweaks. It also had the tendency to slow down to a crawl with no apparent reason.

As for the conventional drive, my T43p runs a SATA drive, which is far newer (by both the concept and production date) than any stock PATA 7200 drive would be...

[Raceboy]

I installed 16GB Silicon Power CF 200x card with 2.5" PATA -> CF adapter and with partition aligned+FlashFire utility I get 39MB/s seq read/write, 39MB/s 512k random read/32 MBs random write, 8mb/s random 4k read, 4MB/s 4k write and the same for 4k qd32.
This is on my ultra power saver TR451 and that was the main reason I switched to CF card. Can't be happier, I bought the combo for 25 euros from a friend (parts are brand new) and could you imagine a T4x machine that is completely silent? Fan comes on only upon POST and stays off even when watching youtube videos.

There is no hesitations, no hiccups, nothing.

I will make a separate thread about my build, maybe there's some ideas for someone.

[dandreye]

@ajkula66:

Assuming this also affects T43s where can I find more information on the "Out-of-the-blue freezing after all the tweaks" issue?

Btw which make/model 7200rpm HDD is currently in your T43? I'm currently looking at WD Scorpio Black as a potential alternative to an SSD as need to make a rock solid T43 after the mod for SATA.

Many thanks,

D.

[dandreye]

@Raceboy:

- What access time do these CF cards have?

- Are there any known issues when using larger size CF cards? Same brand 32GB ones seem to be priced at just over £40.

Would be great to see the new thread on the mod for CF indeed.


Many thanks,

D.

[ChugokuOtaku]

Out-of-the-blue freezing kept on being one of the biggest issues even after all the tweaks. It also had the tendency to slow down to a crawl with no apparent reason.

Recently, we received a batch of Elitebook 8460p laptops at work, all came stock with Intel 320 series 160gig SSDs. I was disappointed to find out that the developers who specifically requested these machines insisted they be deployed with WinXP. After failing to convince them to switch to Win7, my desktop engineer team decided that we'll just deploy them with XP images misaligned, no optimization, and in no time these developers will be begging us to upgrade them to Win7. What we didn't expect, was that XP ran lightning fast even without alignment/optimization. We stressed tested the systems, and kept them going for more than 72 hours, and none of them locked up or slowed to a crawl.

Perhaps the Out-of-the-blue freezing you experienced has more to do with firmware of the SSD than "SSDs in general." I remember over a year ago when I simply cloned a misaligned XP image over to my Kingspec SSD in my X41, I had major issues with the machine crawling. Apparently companies like Intel have worked some magic into the SSD firmwares to compensate for these shortcomings in XP.