Too many options

Message

ellinj · #1 Post by **ellinj** » Sun Feb 27, 2005 10:50 pm

I am in the market for a new Thinkpad from the IBM EPP site, I would prefer a 14" model since I favor size and weight over the extra screen size.Although either machine is smaller then what I am using now. I would be satisified with the standard 1024 screen. I would like bluetooth although it is probably the item I am most willing to sacrafice. I am also unsure how import the video card is. I am not a big gamer. I mainly do web surfing, email, some programming, itunes and the occasional card game.

2378FVU, would need to upgrade memory and warranty, no bluetooth, kost expensive after upgrades

18714BU, new t43 model, questionable graphics card, god knows when it might actually ship

266844U, new t43 model, 64mb video card, no bluetooth, god knows when it might actually ship

2379DXU, basically get everything I want but it increases machine size and weight and loss of battery life

This is based on what is available on the EPP site. I am also a part time graduate student so I think I can buy from education site, but It looks like the discount isn't as good as EPP.

I am leaning towards one of the new T43s but I would like to hear any pros and cons that you folks may have.

JHEM · #2 Post by **JHEM** » Sun Feb 27, 2005 11:29 pm

Our host here is an IBM Value Added Retailer whose sales of Thinkpads provides the wherewithal to support these forums.

He's also too much of a gentleman to write the following, so I'll do it for him.

It's inconsiderate in the extreme to discuss EPP purchases here as 99% of the folks on here don't have access to the program. But it's particularly offensive to ask for considerable assistance in making your purchase. These questions should be directed to whomever has provided you with access to the EPP program, or to IBM directly at their 800 number.

Once you've made your purchase you're certainly more than welcome to come back and ask any questions you might have or offer assistance where it's applicable.

Regards,

James

ellinj · #3 Post by **ellinj** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:03 am

Well weather I buy from EPP or not I would still be in the same quandry as to which machine to buy. Also, since I am not posting pricing information from EPP I don't see anything wrong with my post. Besides, the buying sticky right at the top of the forum provides a Link to EPP. Its not like its top secret or anything. The only reason I mention it is that I wanted to confine my responses to the models listed since these are the ones that are available to me.

Roisin · #4 Post by **Roisin** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:34 am

if you want a t42, get: 2373-M3U for $2419

if you want to wait for a t43, get: 2668-4EU going for $2299

and if you really only need surfing and solitaire, and prefer portability, why not going with a x40?

ellinj · #5 Post by **ellinj** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:42 am

Roisin wrote:if you want a t42, get: 2373-M3U for $2419

if you want to wait for a t43, get: 2668-4EU going for $2299

and if you really only need surfing and solitaire, and prefer portability, why not going with a x40?

want an attached dvd.

ellinj · #6 Post by **ellinj** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:48 am

Roisin wrote:if you want a t42, get: 2373-M3U for $2419

if you want to wait for a t43, get: 2668-4EU going for $2299

and if you really only need surfing and solitaire, and prefer portability, why not going with a x40?

I don't see 2373-M3U listed on EPP web site.

The 2668-45U looks like it may work as well. Whats the ETA on the T43 machines?

Steve007 · #7 Post by **Steve007** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:22 am

JHEM wrote:It's inconsiderate in the extreme to discuss EPP purchases here as 99% of the folks on here don't have access to the program. But it's particularly offensive to ask for considerable assistance in making your purchase.

Don't be daft! The guy has asked some genuine questions that require simple answers. Who gives a toss where and who he is buying from?

I'd wager no one will be "offended" by his post

ellinj · #8 Post by **ellinj** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:26 am

Steve007 wrote:
JHEM wrote:It's inconsiderate in the extreme to discuss EPP purchases here as 99% of the folks on here don't have access to the program. But it's particularly offensive to ask for considerable assistance in making your purchase.
Don't be daft! The guy has asked some genuine questions that require simple answers. Who gives a toss where and who he is buying from?

I'd wager no one will be "offended" by his post

thankyou

#9 Post by **JaneL** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:49 pm

>Who gives a toss where and who he is buying from?
>

Well, let me take a shot at that. Hmmm... maybe Bill would? You know, Bill Morrow, the guy who pays for this forum *AND* is an IBM-authorized reseller? Did that ever cross your tiny mind?

Schwaby · #10 Post by **Schwaby** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:51 pm

So must everyone on the forum purchase from Bill?

Or do you just insult the people that don't?

/just wondering

#11 Post by **JaneL** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:00 pm

>Or do you just insult the people that don't?
>

You read the entire thread, right? Think whatever you like.

primedude · #12 Post by **primedude** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:05 pm

Listen, I don't mean to speak for anyone here, least of all Bill, but I would imagine he'd be pleased to have people visiting this forum, regardless of where they're going to buy their very next ThinkPad. Let me try to explain why I think that.

I bought my TP through the EPP last summer, after I had discovered this site but before I had become fully acquainted with it. But because of this great resource and Bill's frequent, helpful posts, I will certainly be giving a very close look at buying a ThinkPad from Bill when I buy my next laptop. Providing a resource like this is costly in terms of time and money, but it's also great advertising and builds up a lot of goodwill among potential customers. And even though I didn't buy my current ThinkPad from Bill, I do read the forums regularly and try to help out on questions whenever I know the answer (not often!) So I hope in that way, I also contribute a little bit to the community.

Now, if it's really verboten to discuss a purchase from IBM on here, I can see why. And I'll certainly accept that. But in my mind, it would not be very good to chase away someone buying this ThinkPad from someone else when they might stick around and wind up buying their next five from Bill.

This is, of course, my two cents and nothing more.

Schwaby · #13 Post by **Schwaby** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:11 pm

You read the entire thread, right?

Yes, in fact I actually have.

An individual posts a question, asking for forum member's opinions on what notebook configuration would be best for him.

A senior member comes and basically states that due to original poster's advantage of having an epp discount, he shouldn't ask his question here, because it is "inconsiderate in the extreme" and "particularly offensive."

Know I know that I'm just a stupid noob, but I haven't read anywhere that one must be purchasing from X or using X discount to be able to ask questions that are not deemed "offensive."

While Bill Morrow does indeed run the forums, (which are, no doubt, a great and immensely useful resource) I really haven't seen him interject in discussions, voicing his displeasure at people that have used EPP discounts and post on the forum.

Until someone shows me otherwise, I'd have to think that pretty much any question regarding thinkpads is welcome on the board.

But again, I may be wrong.

Think whatever you like.

That I shall do, sir.

krosenstein · #14 Post by **krosenstein** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:14 pm

After participating in this forum for nearly a year, this is the first I've heard about not being able to discuss purchases from a source other than Bill Morrow. Ellinj has some legitimate questions.

How did JHEM and nonny get appointed hall monitors?

gazingwa · #15 Post by **gazingwa** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:14 pm

Hey, welcome to the board, I'm sorry you were greated in the manner you were. Some people have very little patience with questions that get asked so often. Good luck with your purchase.

JHEM · #16 Post by **JHEM** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:26 pm

Schwaby wrote:So must everyone on the forum purchase from Bill?

No, that wasn't what I said. I took objection to the quantity of separate questions pertaining to an EPP purchase. I was asking for some restraint on the part of the OP.

I have no underlying problem with where anyone has purchased their Thinkpad and a minute spent searching the Forums would quickly show how often I have directed people to the best source for their machine, including student purchase websites, EPP, refurbs, etc., etc.

The forums are for all Thinkpad owners, regardless of where they purchased them.

Regards,

James

krosenstein · #17 Post by **krosenstein** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:33 pm

So, one or two questions would be OK but four or five would be too many?

I don't quite understand what limits you think exist?

ellinj · #18 Post by **ellinj** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:53 pm

JHEM wrote:
Schwaby wrote:So must everyone on the forum purchase from Bill?
No, that wasn't what I said. I took objection to the quantity of separate questions pertaining to an EPP purchase. I was asking for some restraint on the part of the OP.

quantity of questions????? I think I only asked one? Given these four machines which one should I buy? I only mentioned EPP to point out the fact that I have chosen these four based on whats available through that program. Its not like I asked specifically about policies related to IBM EPP such as how many I can buy, return policy, etc. Those my sponser will be able to answer easily.

slagmi · #19 Post by **slagmi** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:14 pm

I'll vote for 2379DXU because in your words you "get everything I want"

sometimes brand new models have brand new issues that get fixed in the 2nd or 3rd revision of the product. not a big risk but a slight one. but everyone wants the 'latest and greatest', right?

Steve007 · #20 Post by **Steve007** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 5:09 pm

nonny wrote:>Who gives a toss where and who he is buying from?
>

Well, let me take a shot at that. Hmmm... maybe Bill would? You know, Bill Morrow, the guy who pays for this forum *AND* is an IBM-authorized reseller? Did that ever cross your tiny mind?

*Note to mods and senior members*

Stay off the caffeine, you're all a bit highly strung today

I'm sure Bill wouldn't object to the original posters question. I'd guess he'll be delighted that more and more people are using this forum as the prime source of information for everything ThinkPad related.

I find it slightly annoying at some people's attitudes on here. It's a forum. People will ask the same thing time and time again - this happens! Deal with it! Being rude or posting smart [censored] comments doesn't help anyone.

Steve007 · #21 Post by **Steve007** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 5:13 pm

JHEM wrote:I have no underlying problem with where anyone has purchased their Thinkpad

The forums are for all Thinkpad owners, regardless of where they purchased them.

But earlier you said:

It's inconsiderate in the extreme to discuss EPP purchases here as 99% of the folks on here don't have access to the program. But it's particularly offensive to ask for considerable assistance in making your purchase. These questions should be directed to whomever has provided you with access to the EPP program, or to IBM directly at their 800 number.

Once you've made your purchase you're certainly more than welcome to come back and ask any questions you might have or offer assistance where it's applicable.

Make up your mind

duh41 · #22 Post by **duh41** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 5:17 pm

Why not get a 2373-M3U?

For T43s, you could consider the 2668-4EU or the 2668-71U if you want a bigger 5400 rpms hard drive. You'll probably have to wait for these models though

James314 · #23 Post by **James314** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 5:45 pm

I am new to this forum but would like to add that Bill seems like a decent, rational person. I think the moderators and senior members have got no right to act as the voice of Bill, the problems encountered in this forum are direct results of people stating what Bill would or would not want. It would be best for Bill to end this disagreement right now as this is his forum and I could totally understand if he does have an issue with people discussing other sources of purchase. It is my opinion that steve007 is right; the uniqueness of this forum is the kindess and openness of its members, if this forum is reduced down to something whereby we may only discuss what is favourable to Bill's business - as thought up by mods etc - then I for one would not want to participate any longer. I have faith that people reading this forum will see the benefits of buying from Bill (I know I have) so there is no need to stifle people's questions.

James.

JHEM · #24 Post by **JHEM** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 6:02 pm

Ok, I'm sorry I said anything and I'm especially sorry I responded to ellinj as I did.

Welcome to the Forums.

I won't kill the thread as that would be an act of extreme hubris.

Regards,

James

Steve007 · #25 Post by **Steve007** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 6:05 pm

JHEM wrote:Ok, I'm sorry I said anything and I'm especially sorry I responded to ellinj as I did.

Ok, this is over with now. Let's move on

ellinj · #26 Post by **ellinj** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 6:59 pm

duh41 wrote:Why not get a 2373-M3U?

For T43s, you could consider the 2668-4EU or the 2668-71U if you want a bigger 5400 rpms hard drive. You'll probably have to wait for these models though

Any idea on the availability of the 4eu?

Leon · #27 Post by **Leon** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:53 pm

Whew, this thread has brought out a lot of issues. I came to it late, but I am going to use the opportunity to clarify some things. I state in advance that the statements I will make do NOT necessarily reflect on the individual posters to this thread, nor necessarily to the issues discussed in the previous posts. However, the posts above have touched either directly or indirectly to many issues that have come up recently on this Forum. So, after reading this, please don’t post “It’s not what I/he/she said/meant”. This is NOT directed at any specific individual or post. A modified version of the guidelines below is in the works as part of the “read me first” portion of this Forum, either as a separate entry, or merged with other entries.

1. The primary purpose of this Forum is to act as an educational forum for the exchange of information for all things Thinkpad. All are encouraged to participate in this information exchange in the spirit of openness and fun. Keeping this place a comfortable and enjoyable place on the Internet to spend your time is strongly encouraged. Emotional outbursts and personal attacks are not.

2. Bill, the gracious host of this Forum, http://www.thinkpads.com/start.htm , is an authorized IBM reseller. He has competitive prices, and often some great sales. When you are ready to buy, you are strongly encouraged to contact Bill with your requirements and ask for a price quote. Email him (bill@thinkpads.com), you have NOT contacted him regarding a price quote or order by posting in this Forum. He may have a good price on the model you want, or may be able to lead you to a similar model at a good price. In any case, if you buy from him, you will find his service and personal support to be unequaled. In addition, he ships internationally, and is the ONLY dealer to offer an option of pre-inspection for no dead pixels. There is also no sales tax, unless you are fortunate enough to live in Florida (in which case you might be able to arrange to drive over to pick it up and save the shipping)

.

3. You are welcome to read, participate, and post on this Forum regardless of where you purchased or will purchase your Thinkpad (or maybe you just want to know about the best laptop in existence and will never buy one).

4. Bill, as the host of this Forum, could be held responsible for its content. Please THINK before you post. Do not post anything that is libelous, or of questionable legality. This includes the items mentioned below (which are not comprehensive). The vast majority of the users of this Forum are intelligent, perceptive individuals. But sometimes, we post in haste. Use the preview button before you post, read it from an objective perspective, and only post after you are comfortable that it clearly represents what you want to say. Above all, use common sense.

5. Feel free to ask or discuss anything about a Thinkpad regardless of how simple. There are NO stupid questions. This forum was created for the information exchange of all levels of users, from “newbies” to experts. Therefore, please don't jump on anyone, but especially not on newcomers, for asking what you may feel are stupid questions. That is the purpose of this forum ... to have someone to turn to when you need to find answers. There are no stupid questions! In addition, a thread that starts with a seemingly stupid question often blossoms into something very valuable to all.

6. Do not post links, model availability, or pricing information from sites that restrict their purchasing to specific narrow groups (e.g. EPP [employee purchase] or specific Education sites). The members of these institutions can find their information through their employer or organization. Posting the links or information without prior permission from IBM (Lenovo) is of questionable legality. Those that are entitled to these discounts have no problem finding the site directly from IBM, their employee friend, or their school bookstore.

7. Don’t ask how to get an EPP (Employee Purchase) or Educational Discount. If you are a member of one of these groups, ask them: they will know better. Questions about the Thinkpad are welcome. Questions about the the specific purchasing program itself should be directed toward your qualifying organization.

8. The moderators of this Forum are listed at the top of each forum. While Bill is the host, he has chosen the moderators to do just that: moderate the day-to-day operation of the forum. You are welcome to disagree, and you will generally find the moderators on this Forum to be tolerant and receptive to opposing views. Questions about the appropriateness of any subject or posting should be directed as a private message to a moderator before posting. If you are in doubt, ask!

9. Above all, have fun here, learn, share, and enjoy your Thinkpad!

rhema83 · #28 Post by **rhema83** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:13 pm

ellinj wrote:2378FVU, would need to upgrade memory and warranty, no bluetooth, kost expensive after upgrades

18714BU, new t43 model, questionable graphics card, god knows when it might actually ship

266844U, new t43 model, 64mb video card, no bluetooth, god knows when it might actually ship

2379DXU, basically get everything I want but it increases machine size and weight and loss of battery life.

2378FVU is the way to go. It comes with the bluetooth antennae and you can easily upgrade the stock modem card with the BT one. Memory is cheap ($110 for 512MB from Crucial) and warranty is not that expensive ($132 for 3 years depot).

IMO the new T43's have questionable reliability and performance. I wouldn't buy a first-generation Sonoma laptop because I want to let IBM and other big players (like corporations) experiment, find the faults and iron them out first.

ellinj · #29 Post by **ellinj** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:40 pm

Just ordered a 2373-M3U thanks for all your help. Its backordered about 2weeks, but it should be worth the wait.

Jeff

Esteban · #30 Post by **Esteban** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 4:09 pm

Just ordered a 2373-M3U thanks for all your help. Its backordered about 2weeks, but it should be worth the wait.

Jeff

Jeff, you may be a happy ThinkPad owner much sooner than you expect.

The IBM web site showed a similar two week wait for a T42 2373-M3U when I recently ordered one. The emailed order confirmation had an even longer expected ship date of about 3 weeks. You can track your order number on IBM.com. It surprised and pleased me that my order shipped within three days. It took a day after my order shipped from Hong Kong for it's tracking number, which I found on IBM.com, to work on ups.com. IBM sent it by 2 day UPS delivery. It shipped from HK on Friday and was delivered to me in California the following Monday (a holiday so I hadn't' expected a delivery till Tuesday or Wednesday).

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