My Beloved T42p...Is it time to let it RIP (Rest in Peace)?

[PeteS457]

I have a T42p (2373-Q1U) that I bought when they first came out, so I've had it approximately 7-8 years. I've owned 30 or more computers, build a lot of my own, but I probably have enjoyed and used my T42p more than any computer I've ever owned. I've always taken care of it, kept the software clean and organized. I've had several problems along the way, but through maintenance - and the help of many on this forum - it has continued to serve me well. But I'm continuing to have more problems and I'm wondering if it's just time to let her go.

The machine has always had fan problems. In fact, I've replaced the fan 5 times during the time I've owned it. The last time was just last year. A couple years ago, I replaced the motherboard. However, in the past 8 months, the machine has been shutting down on its own. The machine was very hot and running TPC Fan Control, it showed that the CPU was running extremely hot, even with the fan running 3500-4500 rpms. Once it would reach 90 degrees or so, it would just turn off. So, I'd take it apart and clean the CPU and put a new layer of Artic Silver 5 on the CPU. This has always resulted in a cooler running machine in the past - and it would work for a couple weeks, but then the CPU would run hot again and the machine would just shut down. So my question is: do CPU eventually just go bad and overheat even with AS5 or maybe does AS5 go bad and become ineffective with age? (My AS5 is definitely a few years old, maybe as much as 7-10 years old.)

So this is the situation that's been going on for a few months now. Now yesterday, the latest fan is sending a Fan Error again. Considering that the T42p is single core, 2GB RAM max, no SATA, etc - it is antiquated technology. I just love the machine - it's a sentimental thing. Anyway, I thought I'd ask other Thinkpad fans what they think. Does anyone know what's going on and is it worth it to fix it one more time? Or should I just let it RIP and buy a new one. If buying a new one, any good recommendations would be appreciated. Should this one go in the Best Buy refurbish bin or is there a better end for beloved Thinkpads?

[Harryc]

Have you been purchasing new fans or used ones?

[PeteS457]

A couple of them were used ones. So since I was going through them quickly, I bought a new one this past year. It worked well until a couple days ago. It was probably worked quite hard with the CPU overheating the past few months.

Thanks for the quick reply.

[ajkula66]

Was that "new" fan from IBM or China?

[PeteS457]

Well, your reply caused me to do a little research into the last fan purchase. It was September 9, 2009 from ebay seller "thinkpadplus" based in Pennsylvania. So, it wasn't from IBM, but it didn't come to me directly from China either.

However, please explain the interest in the fan. I admit there have been a number of fan problems with this computer. But in general, all the fans I bought - either "new" or used - worked for a while and gave me a good result, if even for a limited period. However, this fan seemed to be working throughout, I could feel the hot air being blown out, TPC Fan Control said it was running at 3500-4500 rpms - and yet the CPU would overheat anyway and go to 90 degrees within an hour of operation. Does a Chinese fan run at those speeds, blow out hot air, and yet not cool the CPU properly? Trying to understand how a working fan that may be a knockoff would not cool the CPU.

Thanks for your reply and trying to help me with this issue.

[ajkula66]

The way I see it, it's either a software problem (something running in the back and choking the CPU) or the sensor on the board has gone haywire.

You could boot from a "live" Linux CD and see whether the machine overheats there.

Good luck.

[PeteS457]

Thanks for the response. I have a CPU utilisation widget running and it usually is running on low CPU usage (<10%). However, I notice if I run video or graphical content, the CPU usage is higher and correspondingly the fan speed increases - but the CPU temp goes higher drastically. Playing video content is the main culprit to the CPU running hot and the machine shutting down. However, it is not the only thing. It will shut down eventually when I'm away from the machine and it is just being idle.

The sensor on the board could be the problem, but how would I determine that? I don't believe that is the culprit as the fan blows out very hot air and the machine feels hot when it shuts down.

Does anyone know if Artic Silver 5 goes bad? I am using a very old tube of it.

[Unknown_K]

How much of that thermal paste are you using? The point of the paste is to fill in small uneven areas between the heatsink and the CPU top to conduct heat. The compound isn't that great for conducting heat on its own, but 1000% better then a pocket of air. If you use too much you conduct heat through the liquids in the paste (water conducts great) to the heatsink untill heat dries it out and then you have overheating problems. If you use just a small dab you should not have issues for years (unless the heatsink is very warped or pitted not making proper contact with the CPU). The only other issues are too much dust on the heatsink fins stopping the fan from cooling the system off, or stopping the fan. Can you feal heat coming out of the blower when running?

[PeteS457]

Once again, thanks for your response. Yeah, I'm pretty sure I'm putting the proper amount of thermal paste and distributing it correctly on the CPU. I've done this many times throughout the years with my computers - both desktop and laptops - and never had a problem with overheating so soon after application. I will check the dust in the heatsink fins as the computer is getting old and I've never been that concerned with the fins. And yes, I can feel considerable heat coming out of the blower.

[ajkula66]

Try running from a "live" Linux CD...I know I'm repeating myself, but that could be a good pointer on where to look next...

http://www.linuxmint.com/release.php?id=12

Two other things you could try, and I'll be happy to give you a hand if needed:

a) a different CPU

b) a M24 fan from T43/p which has been designed to deal with a hotter-running machine

BTW, my now-defunct neigbours were selling genuine IBM stuff, so the fan that you bought from them is the real deal, be it new or used at the time of purchase...

Good luck.

[PeteS457]

Sorry that I am resurrecting this thread after almost 3 months. I've had some personal distractions that have taken precedence.

Anyway, the issue has not been resolved. To update on what has happened since the last post:

• The T42p continues to overheat and turn itself off. Once more, I opened my machine and applied a new layer of thermal paste - this time a Vantec paste. The machine started overheating once again quite quickly after turning the machine on within three days of the new application. TPC Fan Control reports temps of 90+ after several minutes of the machine being turned on and then simply turns off. The machine temp does rise and the fan speeds up when the CPU utilization goes above 60% or so. But this is rather rare. The machine is configured clean and doesn't run too many processes.
  
  I notice the room temp does affect the machine temp readings (if only slightly). If in a colder room, the machine will stay on quite a bit longer than if the room is warmer.
  
  I did not try the Linux boot disk (yet), but I don't think that is the issue. If the machine is very hot and has just turned off with 90+ degree temp, I can reboot and go into the Setup BIOS before booting an OS, it will turn off also typically within seconds of booting up.
  
  The fan is working - but testy. About 1 in 20 boots, I will get the notorious fan error. Otherwise, it will boot and TPC Fan Control will register its speed (typically between 3500-4500 rpms). But it is often noisy (not always).
  
  It could be a sensor - I do not how I would check that. But quite frankly, the machine is hot when it turns off. And the heat coming out of the fan is very hot.

Any help of course will be very appreciated.

PS. By the way, George, you are the one who I got the replacement mobo from and you helped me replace it. Thanks.

[RealBlackStuff]

Repeat after me: I will try the recommended Linux Live-CD...

[ajkula66]

Pete,

Of course I remember selling the planar to you. Also sent you a M10 fan which may very well be one that's giving you grief now...

Try replacing the fan once again, if you get the same overheating/shutdown issues in Linux. If that doesn't help, I can send you another CPU to test the machine with.

Keep us posted.

[PeteS457]

OK. I downloaded Linux Mint and burned the DVD. I booted up with the DVD, connected to my wifi network, installed the Adobe Flash plugin, and used Firefox to play some videos in the browser. (This was one sure fire way in Windows of getting it to overheat and crash.) After playing video for less than 5 minutes, the Mint GUI closed and I get the following:

mint@mint
Broadcast message from root@mint
(unknown) at 20:14

The system is going down for power off NOW!
Please remove disc and close the tray (if any) then press ENTER:

Upon doing that, the machine shuts down. I'm not a linux guy, but it looks like it's doing the same thing as with Windows, only a lot more elegantly. (Windows 7 just spontaneously turns the machine off without shutting down.) I duplicated this behavior three separate times on Linux.

A reminder: I have also seen the machine shut down when powering on and entering BIOS - before loading an OS although that happened only once.

Once again, thanks.

[ajkula66]

It's a hardware problem alright.

Replace the fan and see what happens.

You can also PM me your address and I'll send you a different CPU to test the machine with.

[PeteS457]

OK George.....You've been with me in dealing with this machine's ever-increasing problems the past couple years. In fact, you may have been the one as you said who not only sold me the new planar, but may have supplied the last fan also. Anyway, I'm willing to try whatever you think in order to get (hopefully) a couple more years out of it.

Your reply above on August 29 suggested I try a different CPU and/or a different fan - maybe even a M24 from a T43/p. Since this is now the 6th fan that will have been in this machine, what do you suggest? Another T42p fan (I think you say that's a M10) or the M24? (I assume a M24 will fit a T42p if you're suggesting it.) Should I wait to see how a new fan works before I test with a different CPU? And most importantly, can you supply the parts or recommend where I can get them (reputably)?

[ajkula66]

I've just checked and am out of M24 fans, but have bought stuff from these folks in the past and never had an issue:

http://cgi.ebay.com/IBM-Thinkpad-T43-T4 ... _640wt_906

Swap the fan first. If the issues persist, then we'll get the CPU replaced.

Good luck.

[PeteS457]

Hi George. I bought the fan in the link above last night. I hope that was what you were suggesting I do. I usually buy the 13R2657 fan, not a 26R9074 fan. Is this the M24 fan you were talking about that should run the machine cooler? And it will fit my T42p like the 13R2657 does? Otherwise, I better write them and tell them I made an ordering mistake.

Thanks once again.

[ajkula66]

26R9074 is M24, that was my suggestion, and yes, it will fit like a glove.

[PeteS457]

Wow...do you live on this forum 24x7? What a quick reply - even with an Offline status.

Thanks George. Let's see what happens.

[sktn77a]

Some suggestions:

1. A "Fan Error" at bootup can occur for several reasons.
2. Do the fans have thermal pads on them?
3. Have you checked the GPU temps as well as the CPU temps?
4. Have you thoroughly leaned out the fan vents.
5. I see you are using Windows 7 - can you go back to XP to see if you are having the same problems?

As for your last question, yes, the T42(p) is "previously enjoyed" technology. I have one left in our stable but only because the daughter in question is very resistant to change(!) - when it dies she'll get upgraded to the latest!

[PeteS457]

Thanks sktn77a. Yes, I've montiored the GPU temps with TPC Fan Control and they don't rise strongly or seem out of line. The fan blades look clean. I do not remember thernal pads being on the fan, but I'll check it out when I replace it in a day or two when I get a replacement fan I ordered.

I just noticed your address. You're in Chapel Hill also? Ironic.

[sktn77a]

Yes, I hadn't noticed! The thermal pads on the long T4x pads are usually for the GPU (the CPU is usually just copper to chip contact with a VERY thin smear of thermal grease. The pads are messy once the fan has been taken off for the first time and I've never been able to re-use one (maybe I'm just ham-fisted).

[PeteS457]

Just to keep everyone informed who have helped me.

I received a used M24 fan (26R9074 ) as recommended by George in above post approximately 10 days ago. I (excitedly) installed the new fan, hoping that it would resolve the overheating problem. I noticed that the previous thermal grease I had applied to the CPU a few weeks before - a Vantec brand, not Artic Silver 5 - had totally melted. So I reapplied a fresh thin layer of AS5 and installed the M24. I am happy to say that I have been operating my T42p for the past ten days almost non-stop with no crashes at all.

So, I'm happy - but still watching it closely. The CPU temps in idle are in the 60C-70C range (sometimes in the 50C-60C range) - not bad. However, when I do run graphic intensive applications, I notice the CPU temps do rise quite high. And unfortunately, I have seen them get as high as 88C briefly once - perilously high to the 90C mark that usually shuts the machine down. But in general, it very rarely now reaches the 80C+ temps like it was doing. I have also noticed that the GPU temps are now running 3-6C higher than the CPU temps, I've was either misreading it before or not paying close attention, but I never remember the GPU temps that high or higher than the CPU temps. (I just heard the fan kick in as I am writing this and the CPU temp reads 80C at 31% CPU utilization.)

All in all, I'm guardedly optimistic. However, I have had the machine running for a few weeks before after applying a fresh layer of AS5 before it would routinely start overheating and crashing. So the verdict is still out - but so far so good.

Thanks to all who helped - and espcially you George. Will keep you all informed.

[Temetka]

Back in the day I had a T41P in a pretty similar configuration to your T42P.

I too had to replace the fan a few times, I also upgraded the CPU to a 2GHz Dothan. While I did have a few minor overheating issues I solved it with a bit of AS5 which I noticed that you too have also used. The other thing that I did which helped a lot was to ever so gently bend the heat pipe just a little bit so that I it would have more contact with the CPU and the GPU.

That machine was still running strong, and cool until the day I sold it to a fellow forum member a few years ago. Since you have some older fans lying around, it might be worth a shot to give it a try and see what happens. Also some fans ship with a thin plastic layer on the CPU HSF assembly. Now I don't know about you, but to me plastic doesn't make a good conductor. A good insululator, yes. A conductor? No. So I removed the thin film and re-installed the fan along with a fresh coat of AS5 and the machine ran great ever since. I wish I could remember who I sold it to so I could ask them what became of the machine. It was fully maxed with the best CPU that could be installed, 2GB of matched RAM, a 7200RPM drive, DVD burner, ultrabay HD adapter and an ultrabay battery as well as one of those neoprene sleeves. Man that machine was sweet.

I am glad to hear that your T42P seems to be working good again. I totally agree with keeping an eye on the temps over the next few weeks just to ensure some stability has been achieved. You could try running Prime95 and NHC to stress the CPU and monitor temps. The other thing you could try is the video card stability test and see if the machine heats up or locks up.

Good luck!

[Utwig]

I recently replaced fan on my T42p. It was working but it started to grind and was annoying. I ordered new original fan from Lenovo shop. Then I scraped original gunk and applied thin layer of AS5 on CPU and GPU. Lowered temps by about 5° under load. The original fan cost about 45 Euros. After researching fans more (I also quieted down my server) I realized that I could have attempted applying oil and graphite dust to fan.

[frankiepankie]

I would also try bending cooling assembly a bit, to improve the contact.

I think 80C idle temperature is WAY too high