T43p SATA Guide (Beware pictures, 56k-ers)

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rkan
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Re: Re: T43p SATA Guide (Beware pictures, 56k-ers)

#121 Post by rkan » Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:35 pm

RealBlackStuff wrote:To put things in perspective: the SATA mod was first performed in China in 2007(!), then published on the (very inventive) 51nb forum: http://forum.51nb.com/viewthread.php?tid=575290
From there it "came to the West" albeit many years later, and the rest is history.
It seems that every Chinese nowadays is a SoC or/and an electrical engineer.
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Re: T43p SATA Guide (Beware pictures, 56k-ers)

#122 Post by Lomax » Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:56 am

A few months ago I entered my office after a torrential downpour, and was greeted by the unmistakable smell of burned electronics. It turned out that the roof had started leaking - straight onto my desk, and straight into my beloved T43p. It was filled to the key-tops and I swear I poured half a liter of water out of it. Needless to say, I had little hope of it coming back to life - even an IBM TP can only take so much - but nevertheless took it apart and left it to dry out for a week or so. Unsurprisingly it proved to be utterly dead once I put it back together and plugged it in, and I ended up sticking it in a drawer to keep for spares. To help me deal with the grief I bought an Intellistation 9228 to replace it with - not as portable(!) but lightyears ahead performance wise. I soon forgot the sad loss as I zoomed along on my new quadcore Xeon...

Some time after that I was fixing up an X32 for a friend which was in terrible condition, with lots of screws missing; I figured I might as well butcher the T43p for screws and save what else might be worth keeping (like the 1400x1050 14" LCD panel). I was just about to put a screwdriver to it when I though why not give it one last try, for old times sake? I plugged the old beast in and could scarcely believe my eyes when the RGB IBM logo sprang up on the screen - it had survived! This was great news of course, and testament to the incredible build quality of these machines, but I now do all my work on the Intellistation and I haven't had all that much use for the T43p. Then I read about this mod and got tempted to give it a go (worst case, the machine should have been dead anyway!), and when I ended up with a spare Samsung 830 SSD that I didn't have any other use for I decided to take the plunge. I stocked up on some ultra thin single core wire, and found a perfect donor MB -> RAID cage SATA cable amongst my junk, and yesterday evening the surgery began.

By far the scariest part was desoldering the PATA controller chip - chucking that amount of heat onto an SMD packed multiple layer board was terrifying, especially with a Portasol... And the [censored] thing took it's time coming loose too; after building up the temperature for a while (also from underside) I grabbed it with a pair of pincers, and even after turning up the heat gun to max it still took several agonising minutes before it came loose. No smoke, blistering or other sings of heat damage though, and it released quite cleanly (I checked the pads with a loupe and a needle to make sure there were no shorts formed by the left over solder). You'd never think it was my first SMD chip desolder!

It is now eight in the morning here and after 9-10 hours of careful work I now have the case back together, all nice and tidy - and the Samsung SSD is working! I am currently installing Xubuntu 12.10 from a USB stick and it seems quite a lot faster than the 250gb mechanical drive it replaces. Oh and it's wonderfully silent and cool - even the southbridge seems to have cooled down as the palmrest doesn't get warm any more (could this be because I opted to completely remove the PATA chip?).

Many thanks for sharing this awesome mod!
600E - 600X - 770X - X31 - X32 - T43p (SATA) - T60p - X200t - X60s - X200s - X201s (PVA) - Z Pro 9228

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Re: T43p SATA Guide (Beware pictures, 56k-ers)

#123 Post by Lomax » Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:38 am

Oh it's fast alright: hdparm -tT shows buffered disk reads at 120Mb/s - ahelluvalot faster than the mechanical drive I had in there before. Result!
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Re: T43p SATA Guide (Beware pictures, 56k-ers)

#124 Post by Raceboy » Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:38 am

No need to heat the PATA bridge chip from underside, only top side. It takes some time because there are four ground pads on the chip besides regular pins and those require more time to get up to the melting point.
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Re: T43p SATA Mod Success, Guide (Beware pictures, 56k-ers)

#125 Post by bretahrnek » Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:22 am

RealBlackStuff wrote:I have now done it several times in a 15" T43p.


After a few experiments, I found out that the best one is a SATA connector as used in HP DV6000 and DV9000 laptops.
It is imperative to look for this item with HP P/N AT368. Similar looking parts with different ATxxx are available, but these have smaller nuthole-diameter and are no good!
See this picture for the real HP AT368:
Image
that is exactly the connector I used ;)
there were two of 'em in my HP...
mainly in use : X201.i5.8GB.**AFFS**.120GBVertex4.Intel6300.GOBI2000.NMD.Ultrabase.w7Pro64
other : T410s.i5.8GB.120GBVertex4.Intel6300.GOBI2000.NMD.w7Pro64
others : X60 | T43p.UXGA.sata | 600e | X300 | T61p
ex : Edge.11 | T60.UXGA.T9500
and big pile of mixed stuff...

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Re: T43p SATA Guide (Beware pictures, 56k-ers)

#126 Post by 86turbodsl » Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:21 pm

Ok, so what is the trick to get the chip off the board? I am using a Weller hot air reflow station with vacuum pickup cup, and i held 650,750, and finally 900F on that chip for
like 5 minutes and it won't let go! I don't really want to go nuclear with a handheld heat gun on the board. The reflow station should work!
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Re: T43p SATA Guide (Beware pictures, 56k-ers)

#127 Post by RealBlackStuff » Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:57 pm

I use an old 1200W paintstripper.
On that gun I concocted a nozzle with a square opening of ca. 1/2" x 1/2" (from an empty soup can).
Run that in small circular motions over the chip, at full blast, for about 1-1/2 minute at a distance of about 2 inches.
Use a dentist's pick to 'whip' it off.
Done it about 50 times by now!
There's one other item that makes this hot-air business much easier for me, but that is my "trade secret". :twisted:
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Re: T43p SATA Guide (Beware pictures, 56k-ers)

#128 Post by 86turbodsl » Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:42 pm

one of the other guys here tried to use some solder wick and the hot air gun on it, but
i think he managed to flick off a resistor off to the side of the marvel chip. I'm not sure whether to be
concerned or not, as it looks like it feeds the chip we're working to remove, so maybe it doesn't matter.

I'm almost ready to just cut the traces instead, and solder on my sata wires, but i'll probably figure out
something on the heat gun. I'm betting that a large nozzle on the heat gun at full blast would just blow
components around, so i don't really want to try that either... :eek:
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Re: T43p SATA Guide (Beware pictures, 56k-ers)

#129 Post by 86turbodsl » Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:37 pm

Well, bought a harbor freight heat gun tonight, i needed one for heat shrink anyway. been doing it with a propane torch for years poorly. Time to upgrade. So i managed to get the chip off the board.

To those considering this mod: This chip is REALLY REALLY small, and there are components around it that are sensitive. More on that in a minute. Do not even attempt this unless you have magnification available and you have some experience with soldering.

When i got ready to pull it off, i covered all the plastic connectors and the southbridge with aluminum foil to be safe. I wrapped everything around the edge, so nothing moved around with the airflow.

I heated the chip for about a minute at high setting, around 750F. I then flicked it to the side using a pick.

Unfortunately, this also dislodged some resistors shown below. The three pads circled i have the resistors. They can be carefully moved back and reflowed. The one with an arrow, is the missing one the guy with the solder braid lost.

Image

Anyone have any ideas on if these are still needed? I don't think the wire soldering will be a problem, just these smd components are sooooo small, it's hard to do this sort of work without losing things.

My trouble right now is that my only real magnification at home is my cell phone camera, and all the reflow stuff is at work. i might have to carefully take everything back and do the work there under the scope. in the event that the ONE missing resistor is still needed, can anyone out there with a T43/R52 motherboard check the resistance of that one with the arrow with a multimeter and let me know what it is?
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Re: T43p SATA Guide (Beware pictures, 56k-ers)

#130 Post by RealBlackStuff » Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:55 am

My "trade secret" is the bottom of the same empty soup can, let's call it TM.
I cut a square hole in it, slightly bigger than the chip and its soldering.
Then I made 4 small pieces, each the width of one side of that square opening.
Then I bent it 90 degrees with a length of about 2mm, looking like this: ---¬
I used rivets to attach those 4 pieces from above, with the short sides pointing down inside the square hole.
The TM was wide enough to fit along the base of the wifi card, under the left metal wifi clamp and fits exactly over the upstanding contact"bar" from the (removed) PCMCIA cage. I bent it in a shape that goes over it.
When you put that TM with the hole over the SATA chip, all the surrounding resistors/capacitors are covered.
The 2mm pieces sit snug on the green mobo itself, building a 'wall' around that chip
The chip sits exactly in the middle of that hole, and the 2mm sides prevent (not all, but most) hot air from going under the TM, where it would otherwise heat up the surroundings of the chip.
When the TM is in place, put a piece of good tape (I use Kapton) over that cage-edge, to stop the TM from moving.
I have made a "blanket" of about 8 layers of heavy duty tin foil to fit over the bottom half (from CPU downwards) of the motherboard, with just a small square opening over the SATA chip.
With that cover, plus my TM, you can only heat up the chip itself, the surrounding bits get only (very) warm, but not enough to come loose.
Now you know...

PS: that resistor measures 1.345 KOhm
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Re: T43p SATA Guide (Beware pictures, 56k-ers)

#131 Post by 86turbodsl » Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:13 am

i can see how that would work well. Frankly, i'm not sure how anyone but a few people could pull this sort of stuff off.

The parts are just so tiny, you almost have to work under a microscope. In fact, after i get my lunch done, i'm going to repair those
three resistors, then clean up the board. And i'll be using a stereo microscope and the reflow station.

I'm not sure i'll need to replace that one missing one, as it appears to feed the marvel chip.

I guess i can try powering the board up first and see if it will work.
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Re: T43p SATA Guide (Beware pictures, 56k-ers)

#132 Post by RealBlackStuff » Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:18 pm

It took me nearly 2 days to make the TM the way I wanted.

AFAIK you must put that resistor back.
At one time, before my TM, whipping the chip out went slightly wrong, I shifted the chip to the right instead and that particular resistor also moved.
And then I lost it somehow when trying to solder it back.
That mobo just would not start without it.
So I took it from another parts-only mobo, but it took me the better part of an hour to solder it back!
Initially I had a magnifier/lamp with normal 5x and a tiny 10x magnifier, similar to this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/280602038209
As I'm getting older, this lens was not powerful enough any more, so I bought a very good 4" lens with 10x magnification.
I removed the 5x lens and put that 10x lens in.
Works great!

I don't understand why your fancy rework station cannot unsolder that chip, whereas my $1.- paintstripper heatgun from a yard-sale can!
Last edited by RealBlackStuff on Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: T43p SATA Guide (Beware pictures, 56k-ers)

#133 Post by 86turbodsl » Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:50 pm

Well that was a disaster. No matter what I try, I cannot get the resistors to solder back in.

I tried everything i could think of. My hot air gun was down to 10% flow, lowest it goes and the resistors
just go flying when you try to get it close to the spot. I don't believe after trying 45 minutes that any sort of
hot air method will work. Maybe an oven and solder paste would do it, but not a hot air gun. I tried to hold the
resistor in place with a xacto knife, i tried my smallest solder tip and it looks like a bazooka under the scope compared to that resistor. I even managed to get a solder ball on it that enveloped the entire resistor. managed to get it back out again, but i'm way under equipped for this job at this time.

To top it off, when i was using copper braid to remove extra solder from the SATA lines area, i managed to lift a couple of traces below the sata copper through holes. Although looking at them, i don't believe the traces that lifted are to anywhere other than the marvel chip.

Now you mention that I need that one resistor, and i'll have to order from digikey, which has a $25 min order, and I'm thinking that this board is just too far gone.

SOOOOO, I have an R52 chassis, a bunch of upgrade stuff on the way including an UXGA screen, if I wanted to build the perfect setup to fit in my R52 chassis, what would I go with? Just buy a duplicate R52 motherboard with ATI chip, or is there something else better?

And this time, i'll weld up a mask for the heat gun, and use the vacuum cup for the chip removal.... :roll:
Last edited by 86turbodsl on Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: T43p SATA Guide (Beware pictures, 56k-ers)

#134 Post by RealBlackStuff » Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:14 pm

I held that resistor in place with a small screwdriver, and used a soldering iron with a sharp tip (filed down to pencil-size), using 60/40 leaded solder.
That's were the 10x magnifier really came in handy.
You can use either a T43/T43p or R52 mobo with ATI GPU.
Brand new T43 with ATI X300 on eBay for $35.- http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 1120469546
Bought from him several times.
FYI: T43 boards do not have a Firewire connector!
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Re: T43p SATA Guide (Beware pictures, 56k-ers)

#135 Post by 86turbodsl » Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:42 pm

RealBlackStuff wrote:I held that resistor in place with a small screwdriver, and used a soldering iron with a sharp tip (filed down to pencil-size), using 60/40 leaded solder.
You have 3 hands? :)

I might give it another go, but probably not without a better magnifier system and a better soldering tip. I at least have all the pads flat now, and found mouser doesn't have a min order limit. Probably cost me $10 instead of $25...

The 1.33kOhm chips are the only ones available.

By the time i'm done with this, i could have bought a new laptop... :)
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Re: T43p SATA Guide (Beware pictures, 56k-ers)

#136 Post by RealBlackStuff » Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:13 pm

Four hands actually, in that 4th hand I hold my Guinness... :mrgreen:

Nope, I have that resistor first on a piece of ribbed (partly hollow) carton, press it in, so it can't move, then put a bit of solder on each end.
Cool it, then use tweezers to move it to the correct mobo position with the solder pointing down.
Place mobo under the magnifier lamp.
Hold resistor in place with that small screwdriver, then heat first one end of the resistor with the soldering tip, until you see the solder melt (within seconds). Let cool. Do the other side. Done.
Only this time it takes no more than a minute or two for the whole procedure.
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Re: T43p SATA Guide (Beware pictures, 56k-ers)

#137 Post by ajkula66 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:17 pm

86turbodsl wrote:
You have 3 hands? :)
No. RBS got two highly-trained mountain lions from me as a birthday gift some years ago. They follow him around like bounty hunters, and speak several languages. Make espresso. Ensure that all the liquor is properly cooled. Shoot with bow and arrow. And many other things that I'm not allowed to post here... :twisted:
By the time i'm done with this, i could have bought a new laptop... :)
You figured that one just now... :idea:
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Re: T43p SATA Guide (Beware pictures, 56k-ers)

#138 Post by 86turbodsl » Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:43 pm

RealBlackStuff wrote:Four hands actually, in that 4th hand I hold my Guinness... :mrgreen:
Mmmmm. I loves me some guinness. :mrgreen: Although i have a lemon shandy in my hand at the moment, but i digress... :D
RealBlackStuff wrote: Nope, I have that resistor first on a piece of ribbed (partly hollow) carton, press it in, so it can't move, then put a bit of solder on each end.
Cool it, then use tweezers to move it to the correct mobo position with the solder pointing down.
Place mobo under the magnifier lamp.
Hold resistor in place with that small screwdriver, then heat first one end of the resistor with the soldering tip, until you see the solder melt (within seconds). Let cool. Do the other side. Done.
Only this time it takes no more than a minute or two for the whole procedure.
So perhaps my goal should be to get a 10X magnifier glass, and a super fine solder tip instead? What would you do? Fight with the three resistors, and order a fourth from Mouser? Or just give up and get a R52 mb? Knowing that i would have to do this all over again and make a heat gun mask too? I don't have a hard drive yet, but really had my heart set on a 1TB drive to go with my UXGA screen. It doesn't have to be fast, but it does have to have room for multiple OS's on it.
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Re: T43p SATA Guide (Beware pictures, 56k-ers)

#139 Post by 86turbodsl » Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:20 pm

ajkula66 wrote: No. RBS got two highly-trained mountain lions from me as a birthday gift some years ago. They follow him around like bounty hunters, and speak several languages. Make espresso. Ensure that all the liquor is properly cooled. Shoot with bow and arrow. And many other things that I'm not allowed to post here... :twisted:
I don't even know where to go with that..... :?:
By the time i'm done with this, i could have bought a new laptop... :)
You figured that one just now... :idea:[/quote]

Yes, a common theme in my life.... sigh.... :cry:
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Re: T43p SATA Guide (Beware pictures, 56k-ers)

#140 Post by RealBlackStuff » Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:26 am

Hey George,
I thought we agreed you wouldn't tell anybody!
Luckily you're only lifting the tip of the veil, but still...
Those lions make mighty fine pets once they are tamed and trained, but there's only one thing wrong with them.
When I let them out to do their 'business', they never go after those pesky chipmunks!
They make tunnel exits all over the backyard, as well as a hell of a racket in their mating season.
So I feed them pieces of Juicy Fruit chewing gum to get rid of them.
It's a known fact that chipmunks cannot digest this gum.
They'll gag on it and then go exactly where I want them to go: the eternal hunting grounds.
I hate these chipmunks almost as badly as tree frogs!
But I digress...

If you're still not able to perform the SATA mod, you can always check my signature... :twisted:
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Re: T43p SATA Guide (Beware pictures, 56k-ers)

#141 Post by 86turbodsl » Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:37 am

True, but at this point, i'm trying not to let it beat me.... :x
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Re: T43p SATA Guide (Beware pictures, 56k-ers)

#142 Post by 86turbodsl » Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:01 pm

HA HA HA HA!!!! Success. Successfully soldered the three loose resistors on the board, and only have to order one tiny 1mm long resistor to complete. I'm fairly ecstatic. My co worker looked under the scope and said i was crazy.

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Re: T43p SATA Guide (Beware pictures, 56k-ers)

#143 Post by Taybridge99 » Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:54 pm

G'Day from Down Under,

I've read through most of the posts on this thread and others in the Thinkpad.com forum on breathing new life into T43p Thinkpads and it seems that in my case (2687-5DU) the best option would be to carry out the SATA mod on the mobo. I'm not a complete novice when it comes to soldering (I successfully replaced the capacitors in my Samsung 214T monitor) but, I'm not 100% confident that I could remove the Marvel chip as I don't have a heat gun (except one that I use for stripping paint) with temperature control and I'm worried that I may finish up destroying the motherboard. I could ship the m/b to "Real Black Stuff" to do the job for me but the shipping costs both ways would add about $US$180 to the SATA-mod cost which makes it a rather dubious investment. Nevertheless, I'm still keen to update to SATA-SSD if I could find someone local (in Australia or preferably in Sydney) who has already done the conversion on a T43p.

Is there anyone out there who might offer this service in Australia? If so, I'd love to hear from you.

Regards,
Bob..
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Re: T43p SATA Guide (Beware pictures, 56k-ers)

#144 Post by RealBlackStuff » Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:34 am

Welcome to the forum.
Here is my "Professional" SATA-chip removing tool: :mrgreen:
a 1200W heatgun/paintstripper, that I bought for a song in a yard-sale.

Image

I used an old tin can to make the 'spout', bent it squarish at the opening, and then put some rivets in to hold it together.
Then used an adjustable hose-clamp to attach it to the heatgun.
At full blast, about 1-2 inches from the chip, it takes less than 2 minutes to remove it.
Of course I cover the surroundings of the chip with heat-resisting material.
And I also have created a tool to protect the Marvell chip from doing any damage to (or dislocation of) the surrounding
resistors and capacitors, when it gets removed.
But that tool, my friends, is my "Trade Secret", not to be shown, ever!
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Re: T43p SATA Guide (Beware pictures, 56k-ers)

#145 Post by lukee » Mon Jun 08, 2015 2:09 am

I am going to try the SATA mod on one of my R52 boards, however the board has SiliconImage SATA/IDE converter chip instead of the Marvell chip. Is the pinout of the SiliconImage chip exactly same as the Marvell chip?
Current: T420
Previous: T400, T43p Flexview, T40, R52, T43p 14"
My first ThinkPad was 570

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Re: T43p SATA Guide (Beware pictures, 56k-ers)

#146 Post by RealBlackStuff » Mon Jun 08, 2015 4:51 am

Yup.

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Re: T43p SATA Guide (Beware pictures, 56k-ers)

#147 Post by lukee » Tue Jun 09, 2015 4:51 am

Thanks RBS, the last thing I am not sure about is the original +5V/GND connection. It is clear to me I need to take the +5V/GND signals from the original ATA connector but I found this schematics showing that some (and maybe all) HDDs have 2x +5V connection - one for motor supply, one for electronic logic (pins 41 and 42):

Image

There are also two grounds, pins 2 and 40. From which pins I need to get +5V and GND in order to supply SATA HDD/SSD sufficiently?

Thanks.
Current: T420
Previous: T400, T43p Flexview, T40, R52, T43p 14"
My first ThinkPad was 570

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Re: T43p SATA Guide (Beware pictures, 56k-ers)

#148 Post by RealBlackStuff » Tue Jun 09, 2015 4:55 am

42 +5V
40 Gnd

Seen from above the mobo (with IDE connector removed):

44 42 40 38 36 etc.
..43 41 39 37 etc.
=================== edge of mobo

Cut off all the IDE connector wires completely, except leave a few mm at pins 42 and 40, to solder your +/- wires on.
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Re: T43p SATA Guide (Beware pictures, 56k-ers)

#149 Post by lukee » Tue Jun 09, 2015 5:20 am

Cut off all the IDE connector wires completely, except leave a few mm at pins 42 and 40, to solder your +/- wires on.
Yep, that's my plan. Thanks RBS.
Current: T420
Previous: T400, T43p Flexview, T40, R52, T43p 14"
My first ThinkPad was 570

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Re: T43p SATA Guide (Beware pictures, 56k-ers)

#150 Post by lukee » Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:43 am

OK, I have started yesterday. I have the SATA cable prepared from a desktop computer. Most dirty job was to cut all the pins from old IDE connector precisely - now I have +5V and GND pins prepared. Tomorrow, I am going with the mobo to my wife's electronic workshop where we are going to desolder the SiliconImage chip using heating gun with an appropriate nozzle.
Current: T420
Previous: T400, T43p Flexview, T40, R52, T43p 14"
My first ThinkPad was 570

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