T43 a buy yet?

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Mike-Indiana · #1 Post by **Mike-Indiana** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:01 pm

I am looking to purchase my first Thinkpad for my employer which is a non-profit business. I have a max budget of $2,500 and will be doing everything from ppt's to DVD via projector as well as the usual desktop publishing, office, excel, access, .... . The usual plus the unforseen in the future.

I was borrowing my wife's Insperion which overheated and shut off mid ppt recently (lack of umph I guess) and so I want the most performance and reliability for the buck... with US support!

Question is:

Is the T43 worthy of purchase yet or are we waiting for the X600 Video card.

This needs to last me 4+ years so it should be the best bang for the long-term usability cause I don't get to buy something like this often.

I assume the T43 is the Tpad to have.

#2 Post by **aamsel** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:41 pm

What won't an X300 do for you that an X600 will?
Sounds like the X300 will do anything graphics related that you mention, and it is DirectX 9.0, and at this time meets the requirements for Windows Longhorn when released.
It is the gamers that need more video power and more framerate.
Business users will be fine with an X300 or 9600.

Andrew
Austin, TX

Mike-Indiana wrote:I am looking to purchase my first Thinkpad for my employer which is a non-profit business. I have a max budget of $2,500 and will be doing everything from ppt's to DVD via projector as well as the usual desktop publishing, office, excel, access, .... . The usual plus the unforseen in the future.

I was borrowing my wife's Insperion which overheated and shut off mid ppt recently (lack of umph I guess) and so I want the most performance and reliability for the buck... with US support!

Question is:

Is the T43 worthy of purchase yet or are we waiting for the X600 Video card.

This needs to last me 4+ years so it should be the best bang for the long-term usability cause I don't get to buy something like this often.

I assume the T43 is the Tpad to have.

Mike-Indiana · #3 Post by **Mike-Indiana** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 12:10 am

Possibly true. Since I need this to last for 4+ years or longer I figure maybe a X-600 or Fire GL would advance me farther past the curve to handle anything that might come my way in the span of 4-5 years.

Not sure what DVD's, processing needs, etc. will be in 4+ years and their requirement for memory, etc.

Like I said when the board says buy I buy the biggest bang for the buck cause they like to say "buy but nothing more for 5 years". Not realistic in this tech age but they are the Boss.

My last desktop was a jump from a 200mhz pentium to a 2 ghz! That was a jump of five years. If I had bought a 120mhz I would not have made it.

Sounds crazy but I do what I have to do.

#4 Post by **aamsel** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 12:21 am

It is not that I don't see the logic of what you want to achieve, but 4+ years???...
There is just no telling whatsoever what is going to be offered in the next 2+ years in terms of advancement.
Even if you buy now at the very top of the technology spectrum, stuff may come along that leave the current technology in the dust.
Video card manufacturers are the biggest ones trying to come up with shorter and shorter engineering cycles. They are coming out with new video card chipsets every 3 months or so. Used to be every year.
There are just too many things that could come along: better screen technology for one.

I firmly believe that you buy for what you need now.
Anyone that is intending to make a notebook last 4+ years will be running a very old OS and very old Apps long before then.

That's just my take, you do whatever makes sense to you at the time of purchase.

Andrew
Austin, TX

Mike-Indiana wrote:Possibly true. Since I need this to last for 4+ years or longer I figure maybe a X-600 or Fire GL would advance me farther past the curve to handle anything that might come my way in the span of 4-5 years.

Not sure what DVD's, processing needs, etc. will be in 4+ years and their requirement for memory, etc.

Like I said when the board says buy I buy the biggest bang for the buck cause they like to say "buy but nothing more for 5 years". Not realistic in this tech age but they are the Boss.

My last desktop was a jump from a 200mhz pentium to a 2 ghz! That was a jump of five years. If I had bought a 120mhz I would not have made it.

Sounds crazy but I do what I have to do.

trikster2 · #5 Post by **trikster2** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 2:01 am

aamsel wrote:What won't an X300 do for you that an X600 will?
Sounds like the X300 will do anything graphics related that you mention, and it is DirectX 9.0, and at this time meets the requirements for Windows Longhorn when released.

This has me worried too.

The X300 in the T43 only meets the minimum requirements for longhorn. The 128mb X600 based card in the T43 is probably a better "4 year bet" but it sounds like that might be out of your price range?

Are you stuck on thinkpads? There are a lot of options out there in your price range that may have a better longterm future.

I agree with the OP. Buying for today is very short sighted. Maybe if you are in a business that does a refresh every two years it makes sense. But the fact is many can't afford that sort of upgrade cycle, for example I'm typing this on a laptop that is over 4 years old. We made a lot of good choices buying it... for office apps it still works swell.

#6 Post by **aamsel** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 2:09 am

Laptops have changed a lot in the past few years, but they remain the same basic device.
I am of the mind that 4 years from now we will have devices that bear no resemblance to what we are typing on today.
Just my thoughts.
These things have remained too similar for too long. Technology has to evolve more substantially at some point, and my guess is soon.

Andrew
Austin, TX

trikster2 wrote:
aamsel wrote:What won't an X300 do for you that an X600 will?
Sounds like the X300 will do anything graphics related that you mention, and it is DirectX 9.0, and at this time meets the requirements for Windows Longhorn when released.

This has me worried too.

The X300 in the T43 only meets the minimum requirements for longhorn. The 128mb X600 based card in the T43 is probably a better "4 year bet" but it sounds like that might be out of your price range?

Are you stuck on thinkpads? There are a lot of options out there in your price range that may have a better longterm future.

I agree with the OP. Buying for today is very short sighted. Maybe if you are in a business that does a refresh every two years it makes sense. But the fact is many can't afford that sort of upgrade cycle, for example I'm typing this on a laptop that is over 4 years old. We made a lot of good choices buying it... for office apps it still works swell.

Mike-Indiana · #7 Post by **Mike-Indiana** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 9:20 am

The one main board member who is assisting me is an engineer so he is very supportive of the largest bang for the buck up front to get me through any unforseen situations.

Assuming I keep the same basic software the 128 might help out on some apps that come along in the middle (2 years) of the curve.

4 years is indead pushing it but by 4 years you are having problems that help motivate the board to permit you to upgrade. in year 5.

Of the current choices is the FireGl a better choice than the x300? Also, to cut down on the initial cost I could back off on memory to minimum and add it aftermart. Also, I assume you can add to the basic warrenty anytime during the warrenty period like Dell. Could expand the warrenty next year when the budget permits to help get better performing hardfware now.

Basically after dealing with Dell India tech support I am ready for a solid built machine that has american techs on the other end of the phone line.
That means IBM.

Dragonfly79 · #8 Post by **Dragonfly79** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 11:42 am

I generally agree with most people on this post that say that four years is pushing your luck on today's technology but you have to know what you are using the laptop for, like someone said earlier. I for one have used a Toshiba Tecra 450 PIII, 256ram, 8mb VRAM until this year when I upgraded to the t42. That laptop lasted 5 years and I am still using it today and wouldn't have bought the T42 if IBM had not sold to Lenovo. So if you are going to using it for graphic intensive purposes it surely won't last for 4+ years no matter what graphic chip you get. Most people would agree that you can still do word processing, watch DVD on a win98 or win2000 platform.
Just my 2 cents.

#9 Post by **aamsel** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 12:05 pm

Is is going to work in 4 years.
The question is:
Will something work SO MUCH BETTER at that point that you will be hard-pressed to not upgrade to?
Some say that technology has advanced substantially, some say that it is quite stagnant.
It all depends on your take on it.

Andrew
Austin, TX

Dragonfly79 wrote:I generally agree with most people on this post that say that four years is pushing your luck on today's technology but you have to know what you are using the laptop for, like someone said earlier. I for one have used a Toshiba Tecra 450 PIII, 256ram, 8mb VRAM until this year when I upgraded to the t42. That laptop lasted 5 years and I am still using it today and wouldn't have bought the T42 if IBM had not sold to Lenovo. So if you are going to using it for graphic intensive purposes it surely won't last for 4+ years no matter what graphic chip you get. Most people would agree that you can still do word processing, watch DVD on a win98 or win2000 platform.
Just my 2 cents.

Mike-Indiana · #10 Post by **Mike-Indiana** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 12:55 pm

Good go around people.

I called IBM to check on a discount for us as a nonprofit. They would only go 5%

I can get 10% + via Visa or as a college alumni.

Anyway, knowing my budget ($2,500) and a percieved discount (10%) I need to take some time to see what T43 I can currently afford as well as what T42. Perhaps the T42 would perform better but again the new chip set could come into play when longhorn comes out and other items in 1-2 years.

asiafish · #11 Post by **asiafish** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:48 pm

For your budget you can definitely get a high-end T42 or even an entry-level T42p, which will do everything a T43 will do graphically, though ever-so-slightly slower.

pointfielder · #12 Post by **pointfielder** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:52 pm

Anyway, knowing my budget ($2,500) and a percieved discount (10%) I need to take some time to see what T43 I can currently afford as well as what T42.

Find somebody who works for IBM and get a 35% EPP discount.
This way you can get most bang for your money!

trikster2 · #13 Post by **trikster2** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 1:12 am

"Basically after dealing with Dell India tech support I am ready for a solid built machine that has american techs on the other end of the phone line.
That means IBM."

You are aware that IBM sold their business to beijing?

One of Lenonov's first moves will be to rename the "access IBM" button on the thinkpads.

In theory china will oursource support to IBM. But Beemers are not to excited about the "chinese migration" I would not count on that IBM support being IBM support (of the caliber we are used to today) after a year or two.

But with anything in life you take your chances.

I have access to a 35% EPP discount and I'm still having a hard time justifying the IBM premium. About the only thing that makes sense are the older T42's. If work will let you buy a nice LCD as part of the purchace get a DXU or FVU and with your extra $800 buy a pair of 19" LCDs (supported with the $179 docking station0. Dual monitors have done way more for my productivity than any increase in CPU Mhz.

bhuiyan · #14 Post by **bhuiyan** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 2:39 am

Dual monitors have done way more for my productivity than any increase in CPU Mhz.

May I know how? Do you use your laptop mostly on a desk? What is the resolution of your laptop display itself and how is using 2 monitors helping productivity?

Regards

Shoaib

#15 Post by **JaneL** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 2:46 am

>Dual monitors have done way more for my productivity than any increase in CPU Mhz.
>

That's for sure. One of the hobby jobs that I took while I was in between "real" jobs (ie - could actually live on the the salary and had medical benefits) was doing QA for a software house. They provided a Dull desktop which worked OK and twin 17" LCDs. The setup was fabulous since I could be running several test sessions in windows on one screen while I had my e-mail, defect DB, etc open on the other. Not having to switch back and forth or having to work in tiny windows was great.

trikster2 · #16 Post by **trikster2** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 3:03 pm

bhuiyan wrote:
Dual monitors have done way more for my productivity than any increase in CPU Mhz.
May I know how? Do you use your laptop mostly on a desk? What is the resolution of your laptop display itself and how is using 2 monitors helping productivity?

Regards

Shoaib

My desktop and laptop are one in the same. Work has provided me with a Dell Lattitude D800 with a WUXGA screen which is 1900x1200. The Dell (like the thinkpads) support dual external monitors when used with the docking station. At work I use a Samsung 210T 21" monitor with a Dell 1705FP 17" monitor. The 1705FP stays in portrait mode and is the main monitor for the document I am current working on. In portait mode it looks/feels about the same size of the paper form or word document I eventually will be printing. The 210T is used for any research going into creating the current document.

The time savings comes from not having to switch between document and research. When acting in standalone mode I am ALWAYs tabing between the document I am working on and the stuff I am doing the work with. Yes with the 1900 horizontal resolution I could fit two windows side by side, and I DO sometimes. But windows just does not manage the multiple windows as nicely as it does the multiple screens AND I find having one montor in portrait mode is VERY nice. On the road I've even thought of seetting my laptop on it's side to get the portait mode but it's very hard to type that way.

But it's something you need to try for yourself and see if it fits your workflow. With decent 19" LCDs dropping down to the around $300 there is no reason not to.

danny_isr · #17 Post by **danny_isr** » Sun Mar 27, 2005 10:39 am

there another thing here to comsider.
if you want to wait for a T43 with X600 for good games performance ,then from what i understand it won't do it unless it's an Open GL game

. so if Games is the reason , i don't see any other option then the x300.

Danny

#18 Post by **K. Eng** » Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:12 pm

While the FireGL drivers are optimized for OpenGL and stability, I think they will still run DirectX games with good performance.

danny_isr wrote:there another thing here to comsider.
if you want to wait for a T43 with X600 for good games performance ,then from what i understand it won't do it unless it's an Open GL game

. so if Games is the reason , i don't see any other option then the x300.

Danny

watermark15 · #19 Post by **watermark15** » Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:54 pm

My feeling is T43 will very likely be an interim product. If a laptop's battery life has to be dramtically compromised by performance(actually not impressive either), the design itself is of problem, at least immature. I will buy a 2378FVU while it is so cheap and wait till approximately same time next year, when the new product will come out.

asiafish · #20 Post by **asiafish** » Sun Mar 27, 2005 1:08 pm

Why would battery life be a problem on the T43? The T42 is almost the same in terms of power and I believe uses the same batteries, and by all accounts is one of the better "thin and light" laptops for battery life out there. I doubt the T43 will do any worse in battery life.

danny_isr · #21 Post by **danny_isr** » Sun Mar 27, 2005 1:21 pm

asiafish wrote:Why would battery life be a problem on the T43? The T42 is almost the same in terms of power and I believe uses the same batteries, and by all accounts is one of the better "thin and light" laptops for battery life out there. I doubt the T43 will do any worse in battery life.

more then that , the T43 got 10% more battery capacity .

i just dont get why peope got that negative atitude towards this laptop.
something that they didn't even see ...

it's the best computer that i ever own by far.

Danny

watermark15 · #22 Post by **watermark15** » Sun Mar 27, 2005 2:26 pm

Not just power consumation, the performance may not be impressive comparing with T42 either. T43 uses a bigger battery to be compatible with T42. This is not just about T43. It's about Sonoma. I have been waiting for a decent review on T43, at least a comparison with T42, still not come out yet. probably another month. I really hope T43 is an exception. but by looking at Dell D610 and others with similar configurations as T43 (btw, I don't like dell laptop, and don't wanna compare it with IBM either, just as a reference), I am definitely not impressed. D610 may be a little slower than T43 with same configuration.

http://reviews.cnet.com/Dell_Latitude_D ... ml?tag=top

http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-3121_7-563 ... ?tag=prmo1

There is very little performance boost. I bet T43p is a powerhorse. Let's wait and see. But not T43 with X300.

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