Thinkpads Forum

Escaped from the deviant mind of yours truly and RealBlackStuff's secret lab that is guarded by Cerberus himself...it's alive...

Please disregard the date...never set it up on the blasted camera...



FrankenPad T601FL

T9500 Core 2 Duo Penryn CPU
8GB RAM
15" UXGA (1600x1200) AFFS FlexView LED LCD
nVidia NVS140M GPU
DVD RW multiburner
256GB Crucial M4 SSD
Atheros abgn wireless card
Verizon WWAN
Bluetooth
NO MODEM
Gigabit Ethernet
UltraNav
Security Chip
Fingerprint reader
Middleton's BIOS
Win 7 Pro 64-bit

Dare to compare? A screen that beats *any* LCD in 4:3 format...

this is how it stands against a brand new (NOS) LG Philips SXGA+ FlexView LCD...do bear in mind that the resolutions are different:



the strongest competitor when it comes to image quality is A31p with its ancient-but-still-stunning ID Tech/DBU UXGA FlexView panel:





However, while very bright in its own right, the original FlexView LCD is no match for its LED AFFS grandchild...



Should I even bother with comparisons involving TN panels found on ThinkPads?

Against my daughter's 14" SXGA+ T60, purposely shot with no flash in dark conditions:



and with the lights on:



We also have a R60e that is awaiting conversion to an IPS panel, so let's abuse its poor 15" XGA screen:



Another "dark" picture...



Not surprisingly, the best looking TN panel once again proves to be the WSXGA+ one from my wife's Z61m:



Until one starts evaluating viewing angles, that is...



Now, take a good look at the brightness comparison with both panels at max:



To even out the brightness, I had to tone down the LED panel all the way to 2, while the Z61m's LG screen is still at maximum:




CYNIC'S CORNER - Q & A section:

Q: Heh, how can this be an ultimate 4:3 FrankenPad? You need a X9000/FX570M combo for that title...

A: While I'll admit that there were times when I was financially better off than I currently am, there's still no need to make my kids' breakfast on the heatsink of any laptop...yes, I have considered the aforementioned option but decided against it since cooling could very well prove to be inadequate...and that's not something I'm willing to play with.

Q: An ultimate FrankenPad sporting a likely-defective nVidia GPU? You can't be serious...

A: While I'm well-aware of the risks involving said chips, I was interested in building a machine that would present a real upgrade from my modded T43p, and an Intel-based board would simply not meet that requirement...the planar used in this FrankenPad came from a late (March of 2008) one-owner-well-kept Penryn unit and I'm fairly confident that it will survive my habits...no overclocking, no gaming, no sleep...it has survived 72 hours of Furmark without the GPU temp going over 70 degrees C, so my hopes are high indeed...

Q: An ultimate 4:3 laptop? Panasonic CF-31 with Core i CPU will run circles around your T9500, not to mention that it has screen brightness of over 1000 nits...

A: Yes, I'm quite familiar with CF-31 given the fact that it's my latest company-issued laptop, and I'm actually quite fond of it. That being said, its screen has little to offer apart from sheer brightness, not to mention the fact that XGA resolution on a 13.3" panel fails to even begin to qualify as serious, at least in my book...there are many fine virtues to CF-31, but it was built to be the ultimate 4:3 *utility* laptop, and not an everyday workstation-class machine...which is what I was aiming for...

Don't forget that RBS offers this LED upgrade for T6x/R6x series on regular basis, so if you like what you see, feel free to PM him...

I might post some more pictures tomorrow, but it's very late where I am right now, and it has been a loooooooong day...

I'm interested in comments and open to constructive criticism...

Very interesting Frankenpad indeed. Kudos to you and RBS for making these things possible. This is truly stretching the Thinkpad legacy beyond anything envisioned by the early adopters!

Very nice indeed. The LED certainly looks good compared to the other screens.

Congrats! I only wish an LED 16:10 WUXGA panel were in my affordability range.

Really amazing guys!

Radioguy wrote:Congrats! I only wish an LED 16:10 WUXGA panel were in my affordability range.

What's with the Brooklyn residents - former and present - and widescreen hi-res LED FlexView panels?

My wife wants one of these custom-tailored for her Z61m... ...yes, she's extremely well-aware that it's not doable...

Tasurinchi wrote:

Really amazing guys!

Why thank you, kind sir! Should I mark you down for a dozen of these?

dr_st wrote:

This is truly stretching the Thinkpad legacy beyond anything envisioned by the early adopters!

While I most certainly appreciate the compliment, old friend, my take on this concept is somewhat different: this is the path that Lenovo should've taken if they were interested in anything apart from making a quick buck out of the ThinkPad name...

Just imagine for a split second all the dropped-to-the-floor-jaws had they presented a machine like this in 2007, or even 2008...and not much was preventing them from making such a move...

Well, one can dream; can't they?

Besides, the screen is the next foreseeable replacement on my T61, and I've hated the LG with a passion for some time.

ajkula66 wrote:Just imagine for a split second all the dropped-to-the-floor-jaws had they presented a machine like this in 2007, or even 2008...and not much was preventing them from making such a move...

I don't know that it was a matter of technical ability, but rather of cost. Between 2007-2008 is when prices for notebooks dropped significantly. Assuming they dropped that into the market and it cost significantly more than other notebooks, would there be enough customers to support it?

ZaZ wrote: I don't know that it was a matter of technical ability, but rather of cost. Between 2007-2008 is when prices for notebooks dropped significantly. Assuming they dropped that into the market and it cost significantly more than other notebooks, would there be enough customers to support it?

I never said anything about lack of technical ability...sure, the prices dropped around that time but soon afterwards we got to see Precisions and EliteBooks with IPS panels, and not that cheap either...and Lenovo's answer to those was...

Do I hear crickets?

My point being, why wouldn't Lenovo throw a panel of this quality on a W7xx series? I'm even completely disregarding the aspect ratio...

While the FHD+ screen used in T/W 5*0 series is a nice one, it's light years behind what the serious competition has to offer, as in Dell and HP...

Lenovo had the ability to become a primus inter pares with a new-generation high quality IPS panels back then, but chose to take the cheap route instead, and has been consistently offering sub-par screens since the *00 series...the X2*0 IPS panels notwithstanding...

If I recall correctly and I may not, the IPS panels on the Elitebooks and Precisions did not come until later, after the W700. Lenovo does not have an answer for them. That much is clear.

ajkula66 wrote:Why thank you, kind sir! Should I mark you down for a dozen of these?

Well, maybe not a dozen But I'm getting really tempted to get one. Can this also be done to a WUXGA screen?

Tasurinchi wrote: Can this also be done to a WUXGA screen?

No.

These LCDs are factory-LED-lit, not converted from CCFL.

I presume that most CCFL panels can be converted to LED, but that's not something I've personally attempted.

Hence, it being out of my ballpark.

I would love to know, assuming someone has done that successfully, how to do it, though. The question is whether I'd be happy with the original WUXGA in the first place assuming I realize I can't pull off the mod. I do wonder about native LG WUXGA brightness compared to the WSXGA+ I have.

Looks like I've been wondering about that for a long time, so rather than complete the threadjack, I'll bump this for more input on that.

I have yet to apply any real tweaks to the SSD, but the initial figures are not bad at all:



For the naysayers only...a BIOS screenshot:



And while my T43pFL looks great with a top-of-the-line first generation DS, the T601FL definitely deserves a SM:

What screen was used in this endeavor and modifications were required to get it working, or did I miss it?

It's a Boe Hydis LED-lit UXGA FlexView panel.

No modifications to the LCD itself, but this build does involve a custom wiring harness as well as a modded inverter.

While I've been aware of the screen in question for quite a while, RBS was the only one who came up with an approach that is both neat and sturdy at the same time...

ZaZ wrote:What screen was used in this endeavor and modifications were required to get it working, or did I miss it?

The screen is a Hydis HV150UX2-100.
I have done the mod myself. See here for some comments and pictures: https://sites.google.com/site/twisteroi ... -3-t60-t61
My approach is kinda "quick and dirty", but it works wonderfully.

twistero wrote: My approach is kinda "quick and dirty", but it works wonderfully.

You are a very brave man.

I'd never get any sleep with that type of a setup in *any* of my machines.

To each his/hers own, obviously.

Nice! I haven't studied this in detail before, but it appears that this is a conversion offered for T60s only? Nothing offered for T43?

I bought a couple of UXGA panels for my T60s to replace the SXGA panels when they became dim. I have swapped one SXGA, while the other SXGA isn't too bad yet. But I see that a LED conversion could be more interesting when the time comes to swap that one.

Nice Citroen SM, by the way. Headlights that turn with the front wheels isn't a new invention. This car had it in the early 70s.

Norway Pad wrote: Nothing offered for T43?

Have you seen mine here?

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=107072

Talk to RBS...if you plead the case well enough, he might just do it...

Nice Citroen SM, by the way. Headlights that turn with the front wheels isn't a new invention. This car had it in the early 70s.

Heh, it's not mine. Never owned a SM, although I've driven it quite a few times...what a drop-dead-gorgeous PITA that car was...

As for the swiveling headlights (proper Citroen terminology only, please... ), they were first introduced on the DS in October of 1967...a looooong time ago....

That's where the T43 LED screen was, I knew I had seen it somewhere. Is RBS doing the actual work of the T43 SATA conversions too? In that case parts of my T43 need to go visit him sometime this year anyway. I will ask him what it takes. The T43 is actually one of my favorite Thinkpads, so having a "top end" one with SATA SSD and LED panel would be a nice treat.

I was suspecting you didn't actually own the SM. Then you would have been the owner of a highly exclusive car. I have only ever seen one of them live, and spent quite a while looking at it from behind. It was almost weird to see how the apparently wide front end taper to the rather narrow rear end. According to the swedish owner, the Maserati(?) V6 gave it good performance, and the variable power steering and hydraulic suspension gave it good high speed handling. But you needed to be an enthusiast to own one.

ajkula66 wrote: Heh, it's not mine. Never owned a SM, although I've driven it quite a few times...what a drop-dead-gorgeous PITA that car was...

As for the swiveling headlights (proper Citroen terminology only, please... ), they were first introduced on the DS in October of 1967...a looooong time ago....

Actually, the French were 20 years late. A primitive version was implemented by Tucker back in -47, then Citroen "invented" with it during the early fifties, then Porsche reinvented it again in -01.

Also, some DS models had it back during the fifties. But I don't believe those were mass produced for neither market (EU or US). The US has been hopelessly behind in automobile safety systems for ages.

George, how much money did you put into this best-ever 4:3 Thinkpad? Including all material and RBS's service.

UXGA is a pretty good resolution for laptops. Today I picked up a Dell 2007FP monitor through Craigslist for $38 and am typing this message on it. So much more spacious than the 17" 1280x1024 monitor that it has replaced.

Norway Pad wrote: Is RBS doing the actual work of the T43 SATA conversions too? In that case parts of my T43 need to go visit him sometime this year anyway. I will ask him what it takes. The T43 is actually one of my favorite Thinkpads, so having a "top end" one with SATA SSD and LED panel would be a nice treat.

Yes, RBS is the master of SATA-mods for all of my T43-based units...

Then you would have been the owner of a highly exclusive car.

My good man, I chose not to join that club...SM is a gorgeous car, but a trouble squared in everyday life - and this statement comes from someone who owned about 30 D-series Citroens and worked on many more...Maserati engine was an absolute disaster, over-complicated and utterly unreliable, unlike the one found (in different variations) on DS and ID units. There were a couple of SMs in the Citroen car club that I used to run back in the 90s and their owners spent 90% of their time getting them to behave and 10% actually driving...

DaKKS wrote:

A primitive version was implemented by Tucker back in -47,

True, although his Torpedo had a central "Cyclop's eye" headlight moving only. A stunning vehicle by all means that one was.

Also, some DS models had it back during the fifties.

No. The re-designed front end was presented on Paris Auto Salon in October of '67. Earlier cars - even the Chapron custom build ones - had either two or four fixed headlights.

pianowizard wrote:

George, how much money did you put into this best-ever 4:3 Thinkpad? Including all material and RBS's service.

A grand easily. I never really put the expense sheet together since it might give me a dizzy spell if I ever did...

OK, now that we got all the Classic Cars talk out of the way - not that I didn't enjoy it - back to the important aspects of this thread...

Some folks were wondering how this Hydis LCD compares with newer LED screens...well, I have a T410 with AUO WXGA+ (1440x900) LED panel right here, and it's really not a bad one for a 14" ThinkPad:





Of course, shift the viewing angles a bit and all the weaknesses of a TN panel become clear:



Even more so in the "dark" environment, LED or not...



While the T410's screen is definitely both bright and precise enough in normal light, its colour rendition is weaker than the IPS one, as can be expected:



The bottom line is...at the end of the day, an IPS panel retains the same superior aspects that made the original FlexViews envy of the laptop world ten years ago. LED panels are brighter and presumably longer-lasting, but the essence of the technologies involved remains the same...

Don't the IPS screens have issues with ghosting? I've tried to avoid them for this precise reason, but the XGA screen in my T4X is dying and an upgrade is in the works.

DaKKS wrote:Don't the IPS screens have issues with ghosting? I've tried to avoid them for this precise reason, but the XGA screen in my T4X is dying and an upgrade is in the works.

Some of them do, but that's more of an exception than a rule.

Honestly, an IPS panel is *always* an upgrade, especially when one is coming from a XGA screen...

ajkula66 wrote:Some of them do, but that's more of an exception than a rule.

Honestly, an IPS panel is *always* an upgrade, especially when one is coming from a XGA screen...

Yeah, I kinda started hating them after my school handed me a rMBP with unbelievable ghosting. Gave it back after two days and started using my X201 in school instead. Been kinda wary of them since then.

To be honest, XGA doesn't bother me that much. I'm used to it. But I'm kinda going OCD on that darn red pixel...

This stunner is now up for sale:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=108691

Wow! How did I miss seeing this thread Nice.

ajkula - Where was the QXGA thread? I've recently had experience with some non 4:3 laptops and it made me realize the importance of the the Vertical resolution.