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For FlexView fans: Hydis LED vs. Hydis CCFL *big* PICS

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ajkula66
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For FlexView fans: Hydis LED vs. Hydis CCFL *big* PICS

#1 Post by ajkula66 » Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:58 pm

This post has been in the making for the longest time...

To be fair and balanced (no, I don't work for FOX... :D ) I wanted to compare as-new-as-possible conventional CCFL Hydis panel with a brand new LED one, on somewhat similar machines...well, that time has finally come.

Two units shown in pictures are my own T601NFL on the left, and my brother-in-law's T60p (2007-92U) which received a proper NOS Hydis panel when these were last available about a year or so ago. The latter machine spends most of its life docked and connected to a *huge* Panasonic (also IPS) TV...so its screen is likely to be as good as one can find nowadays...

None of these LCDs were ever calibrated, and both of them use the ancient "tpflex" monitor profile dating back to the days of A30p.... :roll:

Given that the NFL is running a 64-bit version of W7 Pro on FX570M while 92U is sporting a 32-bit version of the same OS on ATi V5200, some subtle differences are to be expected. However, these would really matter if one were dealing with a competent photographer which yours truly most certainly isn't... :lol:

Both screens at maximum brightness, AC power only with battery removed:

Image

Image

Image

The difference in brightness needs no further elaborating. As for the colours, the LED panel seems to display them in lighter and somewhat more "aggressive" (for a lack of better word) spectrum.

Now, what happens when we dim the LED panel to match the full brightness of the CCFL one? For this part, I had to go all the way down to 5 (out of 15) on the NFL:


Image

Image

The colour reproduction suddenly becomes a very close contest, as seen above...



Now, how about viewing angles, that's what one buys an IPS/AFFS screen in the first place in most cases, right?

Image

Image

Image

Obviously, no clear winner in this contest - both the "old" and the "new" LCD offer viewing angles that are nothing short of excellent.



Now, how dim can you make it?

Image

Just in case that I need to state the obvious, it's rather difficult to take a semi-decent picture of a dimmed-down screen...but yes, the LED panel remains a little bit brighter even when toned down all the way...

So what's the conclusion?

Once again, let's begin by underlining the fact that is beyond dispute: both of these panels are of exceptional quality.

The only two major differences, as seen above, would be:

a) One can make the LED panel dim enough to reach the "standard" CCFL levels, but not the other way around.

b) The expected longevity of a LED panel should be superior by a pretty high margin to the one of a comparable CCFL LCD.

I was sold on these new Hydis LED panels the first time I saw one in action. It felt like finally seeing the screen that the T62 range should've shipped with, but never did.

Experience of having two different top-notch panels side-by-side was an exilarating one as well.

However, if I absolutely had to choose just one as a screen that I'd be using for the next five years, it would be the LED panel.

Hmmm...I already made that choice a while ago, didn't I?

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=107072

Now, some not-so-good news...

It would seem that I'm far from being the only one who has figured out how vastly superior these screens are compared to any other non-DC panel, since they disappeared off the market and are nowhere to be found at any figure that would remotely resemble a reasonable price... :cry:

If you're interested in having a FrankenPad with one of these screens built, I'd *highly* recommend reaching out to RealBlackStuff - and fast - since his stock of LED LCDs is just about done with...

Questions and comments are welcomed and appreciated, as always.
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)

Cheers,

George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)

FlexView AARP club members:A31p, T43pSF, X60T

Abused daily: T520, X200s


PMs requesting personal tech support will be ignored.

dr_st
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Re: For FlexView fans: Hydis LED vs. Hydis CCFL *big* PICS

#2 Post by dr_st » Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:45 am

Great comparison. :thumbs-UP: The LED screen looks really nice on the Frankenpad.

I do believe that laptop LCDs are the correct niche for LED panels, since their primary advantages (thinness, low weight and lower power consumption) are most important for laptops, and far less for desktops. Laptop screens are also smaller, which allows for more even backlighting and less of the annoying backlight uniformity issues, which I found plague large LED screens more than their CCFL counterparts. For this reason I've come to prefer the old and dying breed of CCFL-backlit screens for desktop/TV applications.
Thinkpad 25 (20K7), X1 Carbon (20HQ), Yoga 14 (20FY), T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X220 4291-4BG
X61 7673-V2V, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X32 (IPS Screen), A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad, A21m 2628-GXU

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Re: For FlexView fans: Hydis LED vs. Hydis CCFL *big* PICS

#3 Post by Tasurinchi » Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:22 pm

Very nice sir! :thumbs-UP:
IBM Convertible 5140/L40SX/220/240/240X/2*340CSE/360PE/365XD/380D/380E/380XD/380Z/390/560E/560X/2*570/2*600/600E/750Cs/755C/760CD/760EL/760XD/770E
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Peak2Peak
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Re: For FlexView fans: Hydis LED vs. Hydis CCFL *big* PICS

#4 Post by Peak2Peak » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:40 am

Excellent informative & well executed post - :thumbs-UP:
T60F: (Integrated Intel GPU) - [Another T60 FrankenPad!...Different approach]
R60F: (Integrated Intel GPU) - [ThinkPad R60 15.0" FrankenPad]

ajkula66
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Re: For FlexView fans: Hydis LED vs. Hydis CCFL *big* PICS

#5 Post by ajkula66 » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:52 pm

dr_st wrote:Laptop screens are also smaller, which allows for more even backlighting and less of the annoying backlight uniformity issues, which I found plague large LED screens more than their CCFL counterparts. For this reason I've come to prefer the old and dying breed of CCFL-backlit screens for desktop/TV applications.
Very good observation.

Some graphics-industry professionals who rely on desktops and a plethora of monitors for their daily workload still swear by (rather expensive) CCFL-lit, top-shelf IPS displays and I can't say I blame them, but laptops - as you've correctly noted yourself - are a whole different ballgame.

@ Tasurinchi & Peak2Peak:

Thank you, my fellow ThinkPadders - kind words are always highly appreciated - especially when coming from true buffs...
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)

Cheers,

George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)

FlexView AARP club members:A31p, T43pSF, X60T

Abused daily: T520, X200s


PMs requesting personal tech support will be ignored.

Backslashnl1
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Re: For FlexView fans: Hydis LED vs. Hydis CCFL *big* PICS

#6 Post by Backslashnl1 » Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:24 pm

I'm seriously considering this mod, but I have some questions about the color presentation.
Sometimes I think the LED display is a clear winner, but sometimes I doubt it is an improvement. Sometimes it just looks "over-brightened".

In this post I prefer the picture quality of the laptop on the right.
One picture of that post is this one:
Image

Is the LED display on the left or right side?

I am considering this LED mod for a better display quality (contrast, colors, perhaps viewing angle, etc), not just for extra brightness. Do you feel LED improves these aspects?
T61 FrankenPad | 15.0" IPS UXGA flexview + LED | C2D T9500 @ 2,6 Ghz | T500 fan / T61 heatsink | 8GB Micron dual channel | Samsung 840 Pro 256GB SSD | nVidia Quadro NVS 140M | NNB Keyboard | BroadCom 802.11AC 867Mbps + BT 4.0 | OS-X 10.9.1 Mavericks + Win7

ajkula66
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Re: For FlexView fans: Hydis LED vs. Hydis CCFL *big* PICS

#7 Post by ajkula66 » Fri Apr 12, 2013 4:30 pm

Backslashnl1 wrote:
Is the LED display on the left or right side?
LED is on the right side.
I am considering this LED mod for a better display quality (contrast, colors, perhaps viewing angle, etc), not just for extra brightness. Do you feel LED improves these aspects?
Contrast is better, although not by a huge margin.

Colours will depend on how you calibrate the screen.

Viewing angles are equal, you won't notice an improvement there, at least I haven't.
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)

Cheers,

George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)

FlexView AARP club members:A31p, T43pSF, X60T

Abused daily: T520, X200s


PMs requesting personal tech support will be ignored.

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Re: For FlexView fans: Hydis LED vs. Hydis CCFL *big* PICS

#8 Post by Worzyl » Sat Apr 20, 2013 4:44 pm

Was it difficult to replace the screen with this LED version? Was there any EDID flashing involved, or other modifications that had to be made to get it working?
It also seems that from the pictures the whites are more whiter compared to the yellow tints on the CCFL.
T60p 2007-CT0 15" UXGA, ATI V5250, INTEL T7600, 3GB RAM, NMB Keyboard, HP Broadcom 4322AGN 802.11n Wireless Card, Sierra Wireless MC8775 WWAN, 250GB Momentus XT Hybrid drive

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Re: For FlexView fans: Hydis LED vs. Hydis CCFL *big* PICS

#9 Post by Backslashnl1 » Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:15 pm

Worzyl wrote:Was it difficult to replace the screen with this LED version? Was there any EDID flashing involved, or other modifications that had to be made to get it working?
It also seems that from the pictures the whites are more whiter compared to the yellow tints on the CCFL.
The LED mod performed by RealBlackStuff doesn't require EDID flashing, you just replace your current LCD with the HV150UX2-100 display and modded LCD cable + modded inverter. It is not a perfect drop-in, but close.
T61 FrankenPad | 15.0" IPS UXGA flexview + LED | C2D T9500 @ 2,6 Ghz | T500 fan / T61 heatsink | 8GB Micron dual channel | Samsung 840 Pro 256GB SSD | nVidia Quadro NVS 140M | NNB Keyboard | BroadCom 802.11AC 867Mbps + BT 4.0 | OS-X 10.9.1 Mavericks + Win7

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