my new external QXGA LCD monitor

[pianowizard]

I just bought a 20.8" 2048x1536 (QXGA) LCD monitor and love it! At a pixel density of 123.1 per inch, it's far easier on the eyes than the 15.0" QXGA screen on my R50p and T43p (170.7 DPI). The viewing angle is amazing, so I believe it's IPS. It's pretty old though, probably 6 or 7 years, so the image isn't as crisp as my Dell 2407WFP. Also, I have tested my R50p and T43p as well as a friend's T60 via VGA (this monitor doesn't have DVI) and none of them can drive it at the native resolution, which is kind of disappointing. All three are capable of sending out 2048x1536 but in virtual screen mode so that only 1600x1200 is really shown on the monitor and to see the rest I have to scroll. So I'm using it with my Compaq desktop computer instead, which gets the LCD to display 2048x1536 properly. Here's a photo of this external monitor hooked up to this Compaq desktop sitting next to my R50p, both showing this forum in a 1280x960 web browser:



These external QXGA LCD monitors are extremely hard to find because they were made only briefly several years back. Virtually all QXGA monitors on eBay are either CRTs or greyscale LCDs. This particular one is a very obscure model -- Raintree Systems IN2080. More info about it can be found on this site.

I highly recommend you to get one of these if you come across a reasonably priced one on eBay. It's an excellent balance between getting lots of real estate on a screen and saving space on your desk. I got lucky with this one and it cost me only $133 shipped.

[comptiger5000]

Looks awesome! I've been considering a QXGA mod for a used T43p as a second laptop (in addition to my WUXGA W500). Something with IPS would be nice (as nobody makes a 15.4" IPS display...)

[Troels]

Looks great
Actually the 20.8" QXGA was also, like the 15" QXGA manufactured by Idtech, and you could also get it in the IBM T210 desktop monitor, part no ITQX20.

[erik]

It's pretty old though, probably 6 or 7 years, so the image isn't as crisp as my Dell 2407WFP. Also, I have tested my R50p and T43p as well as a friend's T60 via VGA (this monitor doesn't have DVI) and none of them can drive it at the native resolution, which is kind of disappointing.

connecting the dots in red bears your answer.   most VGA cables are of poor quality and can't drive a clean QXGA signal.   if your display were digital then the above would likely be a non-issue.   you might have better luck with a higher-quality cable.

but, for $133, who can complain?   my NEC was 14X that price.

[mgo]

I just bought a 20.8" 2048x1536 (QXGA) LCD monitor and love it!.

I got real lucky and found two excellent Dell monitors at a local pawn shop for pennies on the dollar (almost)

One is the 1901 series and the other is the 1701 series. (19 inches and 17 inches respectively)

I also have a dandy Acer 17 incher.

These are all the matte (non-glare) finish and are silent. No buzz, hum or whine like some other brands. Not only that, they are the older 4:3 ratio which matches all my ThinkPad screens.

It's so nice to have the lighter weight LCD monitors, instead of the untra heavy CRT units we used to have to deal with!

I also got a terrific 22 inch wide screen HP monitor from the same shop, but it's that annoying shiny gloss finish, and I get tired of seeing my own ugly mug in the screen when I use it.

My point is, check out your local pawn shop stores for possible treasures that may be there collecting dust. Take in your laptop and hook it up for a quick look-see before buying. They are usually willing to let you do that.

[carolin]

Can a hole be drilled through an LCD monitor and still have it function? I need to place control knob in the display area of an LCD monitor, but there's not enough room. This area (upper left corner) will be covered later and not seen. I was wondering if it was possible to put a hole through the screen an not effect the function of the rest of it?

[emeraldgirl08]

Very nice price is an understatement!

Congrats!

I have taken note of the Dell you mention. I've gotten rid of my old CRT Television and am looking to replace it with a stellar (but affordable) monitor!

[pianowizard]

Very nice price is an understatement!

Actually, this QXGA monitor started having major problems after I'd had it for only 4 months! Now it's virtually useless. I posted it on Craigslist for $25 and no one has shown any interest yet. But I found its pixel density a bit too high anyway. I now have three Dell 2407WFP's at work and their lower density of 94.34 DPI is just right. I also don't use my QXGA T43p much any more. I'm sick of constantly leaning forward to keep my eyes close to the screen. Now I've switched almost completely to desktop computers with huge LCDs.

[virge]

I picked up an IBM T210 a little while back. Its a great monitor--has every adjustment possible and supports S-video in. I believe it has the same QXGA IPS panel as your monitor. Currently running it at UXGA resolution because of my video card doesn't support a higher resolution over DVI. The one thing I don't like is that the T210 has noisy fan in it to keep things cool. Does yours have a fan as well? I notice on mine, I get occasional vertical lines after I've been using it for a while. I think its a cooling issue and plan on upgrading the fan (maybe even a quieter one) when I get the chance. What was wrong with yours?

[dr_st]

But I found its pixel density a bit too high anyway. I now have three Dell 2407WFP's at work and their lower density of 94.34 DPI is just right.

Who would have thought they would ever hear you say that?

I currently feel comfortable with ~100PPI desktop LCDs or ~120PPI laptop LCDs. Any more would probably make me a bit uncomfortable. My current main display is the 2007FP UXGA 100PPI, from which I can sit about 70cm away and still read comfortably at default font settings. My wife is somewhat unhappy with this, though. Maybe the day is not so far when I would be too?

I am considering getting a bigger screen, so that I can enjoy both 4:3 and widescreen content. I also like to go for IPS (which is one reason I stayed away from the 2408WFP for now)/ Ideal for me would be some 23" WUXGA IPS, since it would have almost the same physical height and PPI as the 2007FP. But no one makes these (except some Apple model, ugh). In the absence of it, the new DELL U2410 IPS seems interesting as well. Might consider that one in the future.

[pianowizard]

What was wrong with yours?

It happened in 3 stages. First, the rightmost 1-inch column of the screen started to show flickering lines. After several weeks, that column wouldn't light up at all. Finally, the rest of the sceen suddenly became very dim and often showed afterimages.

Who would have thought they would ever hear you say that?

You shouldn't have been surprised. I've never been a huge fan of high DPI per se. I've always been aware that low DPI is easier on the eyes and thus prefer such monitors whenever possible. But I also need an enormous amount of real estate! It's easy to get both with desktop monitors, but for laptops, I need to sacrifice one of them, and I choose to sacrifice comfort. I wish there were sub-4-pound 17" 1920x1200 laptops!

I am considering getting a bigger screen, so that I can enjoy both 4:3 and widescreen content.

I highly recommend you to consider the arrangement that I currently have. I don't mean to brag but I really think it's the best setup I've ever seen. Three 24" 1920x1200 LCDs, with one in normal landscape orientation and the others in portrait. When I need widescreen (e.g. to watch a movie), I use the landscape LCD, but when I want lots of vertical real estate, the rotated LCDs give me 1920 rows of pixels! That's my rig at work. At home, I have a slightly scaled down version: a 2408WFP in landscape mode, and two 20" UXGA LCDs (a beautiful 2007FP and a Samsung 204B with terrible TN) in portrait mode.

[dr_st]

I highly recommend you to consider the arrangement that I currently have. I don't mean to brag but I really think it's the best setup I've ever seen. Three 24" 1920x1200 LCDs, with one in normal landscape orientation and the others in portrait. When I need widescreen (e.g. to watch a movie), I use the landscape LCD, but when I want lots of vertical real estate, the rotated LCDs give me 1920 rows of pixels! That's my rig at work. At home, I have a slightly scaled down version: a 2408WFP in landscape mode, and two 20" UXGA LCDs (a beautiful 2007FP and a Samsung 204B with terrible TN) in portrait mode.

That's a highly interesting and useful setup, however I don't think I need that much space (heck, I don't think I have that much space on my desk!). Besides, I think i would find 24" in portrait mode too high, and, even more unfortunate, text in portrait mode does not look good with Cleartype.

But overall, your setup does sound amazing. There is only one setup that I would consider better - the "Cody Control Centre" from Youtube - running a 3007WFP, with two 2007FPs in portrait on the sides of it, for a total resolution of 4960x1600! On this setup, the overall real estate is slightly higher, plus the vertical resolution is consistent, and amazingly the physical size (and therefore PPI) is almost equal between the 30" and the 20". However, your setup does allow more vertical lines, which can be a big advantage for certain tasks.

[Troels]

Can a hole be drilled through an LCD monitor and still have it function? I need to place control knob in the display area of an LCD monitor, but there's not enough room. This area (upper left corner) will be covered later and not seen. I was wondering if it was possible to put a hole through the screen an not effect the function of the rest of it?

LCDs work coloumnwise and row wise. Theoretically, if you drilled a hole in the middle of the LCD, you'd end up with a white or black cross on the LCD, and it would be totally trashed.
In the upper left corner (or upper part of the LCD), a LCD driver board is usually positioned in that region, right behind the LCD panel. You'd also ruin it totally by doing that.

Pianowizard - sorry to hear that the LCD stopped working, even if it was uncomfotable to use, it's always irritating when things go bad
If one had a LCD driver board to test the panel with, that would be nice... there's still a good chance that it might be the driver board only. [censored], it's tempting to repair

[pianowizard]

I also like to go for IPS (which is one reason I stayed away from the 2408WFP for now)

After owning my 2408WFP for close to a month, I am now more hesitant to recommend it. It's a fanTAStic, flawless LCD when driven through DVI with a modern graphics card. But don't buy it if you plan on using VGA or an old graphics card, especially if it's an ATI card. It's one of those LCDs that look crappy with VGA input, and I know it's not due to the cable or the video card because all of my 2407WFP's look great using the same cable and card. But the other issue is even more serious: old ATI cards have difficulty waking up the 2408WFP from Power Save Mode. You can read all about this issue on the Dell Community site. As you can see in that thread, there are ways to get around this problem, but they don't always work. Luckily they worked for me, which was why I posted there earlier today to thank those guys for sharing them.

On the other hand, for people who have moden graphics cards and plan to use DVI, I still recommend the 2408WFP wholeheartedly.

Pianowizard - sorry to hear that the LCD stopped working, even if it was uncomfotable to use, it's always irritating when things go bad
If one had a LCD driver board to test the panel with, that would be nice...

Yeah, I wish I had the equipment and knowledge to diagnose the problem. If anyone in the Boston/Providence area is interested in giving it a try, you are welcome to have this QXGA LCD for $10. You'd need to pick it up in person though.

[virge]

Came across this while searching for an LCD: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0404865258

I have no idea whether this is the correct "LCD driver board" that's been referred to in the thread. Its described as for an IBM QXGA LCD.

@Pianowizard: Maybe its worth a shot to open up your monitor and see if the same part was used?

[crashnburn]

I also like to go for IPS (which is one reason I stayed away from the 2408WFP for now)

After owning my 2408WFP for close to a month, I am now more hesitant to recommend it. It's a fanTAStic, flawless LCD when driven through DVI with a modern graphics card. But don't buy it if you plan on using VGA or an old graphics card, especially if it's an ATI card. It's one of those LCDs that look crappy with VGA input, and I know it's not due to the cable or the video card because all of my 2407WFP's look great using the same cable and card. But the other issue is even more serious: old ATI cards have difficulty waking up the 2408WFP from Power Save Mode. You can read all about this issue on the Dell Community site. As you can see in that thread, there are ways to get around this problem, but they don't always work. Luckily they worked for me, which was why I posted there earlier today to thank those guys for sharing them.

On the other hand, for people who have moden graphics cards and plan to use DVI, I still recommend the 2408WFP wholeheartedly.

Pianowizard - sorry to hear that the LCD stopped working, even if it was uncomfotable to use, it's always irritating when things go bad
If one had a LCD driver board to test the panel with, that would be nice...

Yeah, I wish I had the equipment and knowledge to diagnose the problem. If anyone in the Boston/Providence area is interested in giving it a try, you are welcome to have this QXGA LCD for $10. You'd need to pick it up in person though.

Still have it? I am guessing someone has to pry out the 15" QXGA LCD from your LCD Monitor?

[pianowizard]

Still have it? I am guessing someone has to pry out the 15" QXGA LCD from your LCD Monitor?

It was 20.8", not 15". And I sold it for $10 long ago.

[ZaZ]

I have a 20" UXGA monitor in portrait mode on my desktop. I'd love to get a QXGA for the same purposes, but the only ones I've seen are like $3k and it ain't work that much to me.

[crashnburn]

Wow! These are nice

[pianowizard]

I am reviving this old thread to comment on the LCD industry's impressive recent advances. These are exciting times for us LCD enthusiasts indeed, and I will limit this post to desktop monitors.

Before 2005, only several sizes and resolutions were readily available: 15" 1024x768, 17" 1280x1024, 19" 1280x1024, 20" 1600x1200, 20" 1680x1050, 22" 1680x1050, and 24" 1920x1200. The only high-res LCD monitors were 20.8" 2048x1536 (e.g. the subject of this thread) and 22.2" 3840x2400 (IBM T220 and T221), but they were rare, bulky and prohibitively expensive, and the T220/221 required special video cards. Then, in 2005, the first 30" 2560x1600 monitor (Apple's Cinema Display) came out, which was an exciting addition but unfortunately 30" 2560x1600 remained the highest widely available resolution for a while.

However, since 2012, the number of options exploded thanks to Apple's popularization of "retina" resolutions and the industry's push for 4K televisions. Nowadays, my favorite form factor is 40" (39.5" viewable) 3840x2160, and I now have two such monitors (see http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=52525). In a way, the subject of this thread (20.8" QXGA) has "reincarnated" as 24" (23.75" viewable) 2560x1440, whose 123.7 DPI pixel density is nearly identical (123.1 DPI for 20.8" QXGA), though total pixel count has gone up 17.2%. Even the T220/221's 22.2" 3840x2400 has been exceeded in both pixel count and density by 27" 5120x2880 monitors.

Here's a photo of my Dell P2416D, next to my Dell OptiPlex 790 USFF desktop:

But I found its pixel density a bit too high anyway. I now have three Dell 2407WFP's at work and their lower density of 94.34 DPI is just right.

I wrote that in Sep 2009. Since then I have adjusted to higher DPIs. These days, I consider 110 DPI to be the sweet spot for desktop displays that aren't scaled. Several size/res combinations are between 108 DPI and 113 DPI:

27" 2560x1440 @ 108.8 DPI (I have three)
34" 3440x1440 @ 109.7 DPI
25" 2560x1080 @ 111.1 DPI (I had one)
39.5" 3840x2160 @ 111.5 DPI (I have two)
19.5" 1920x1080 @ 113.0 DPI

The above-mentioned 24" 2560x1440 (123.7 DPI) looks significantly smaller than 108-113 DPI, but it's still reasonably comfortable for me to view even without scaling. The next higher pixel density is 139.9, on 32" (31.5" viewable) 3840x2160 screens. I haven't tried one yet but I probably would need to scale at 125%. I certainly needed to scale the 28" 3840x2160 Dell P2815Q (157.4 DPI) that I had for a year.

I think i would find 24" in portrait mode too high

That corresponds to a screen height of 20.35", which is tall but not "too" tall IMO. My rotated Dell P2416D is 20.70" in height, while the 39.5" monitors are 19.37" tall. Actually, my 27" HP ZR2740w is rotated as well! At 23.53", it does feel slightly too tall, but just slightly. Rotated widescreen monitors not only display more lines of text and save desk space, but also encourage the user to sit up straight. Hunching is one of the many reasons I dislike laptops.

[ZaZ]

I want to get a pair of these, but at $1,300 a pop, it'll have to wait until I win the lottery. My 2007FP in portrait mode is slightly too narrow for some websites, so you a scroll bar on the bottom, which isn't a big deal. I thought about maybe a 24" or 25" WQXGA LCD in portrait mode, but I think that's too tall for me at least and I like the fact that both my monitors have the same pixel density.

[pianowizard]

I want to get a pair of these, but at $1,300 a pop, it'll have to wait until I win the lottery.

Most interesting! Thanks for mentioning this unique 1920x1920 monitor! I was not even aware of any 1:1 ratio monitors!

My 2007FP in portrait mode is slightly too narrow for some websites, so you a scroll bar on the bottom, which isn't a big deal. I thought about maybe a 24" or 25" WQXGA LCD in portrait mode, but I think that's too tall for me at least and I like the fact that both my monitors have the same pixel density.

Have you considered the portrait-landscape-portrait setup dr_st described in his Sep 12th 2009 post, quoted below:

But overall, your setup does sound amazing. There is only one setup that I would consider better - the "Cody Control Centre" from Youtube - running a 3007WFP, with two 2007FPs in portrait on the sides of it, for a total resolution of 4960x1600! On this setup, the overall real estate is slightly higher, plus the vertical resolution is consistent, and amazingly the physical size (and therefore PPI) is almost equal between the 30" and the 20".

If you Google up "2007FP 3007WFP" (without the quotation marks) and view the image results, you will see lots of people showing off their 2007FP-3007WFP-2007FP setups. Of course you don't have to buy a 3007WFP, which is now almost 10 years old. eBay has many very affordable brand new 30" 2560x1600 monitors from Korea. This one is only $331.90 shipped, though it's a bit ugly and takes only dual-link DVI input: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Perfect-Pixel-F ... Sw9N1Vk6GE

[ZaZ]

Yes, those Eizo's are pretty slick, but not worth $2,500 to me since I'd need two. Hopefully, a more value oriented LCD company will come out with something similar.

I don't have room on my desk for a third monitor and I'm pretty happy with the Dells, so I'll stick with what I got for now.

[automobus]

these

ONFG, my impulse is to bookmark it, and buy it when next I need a monitor. But, expletive! Some geniuses decided to put HDCP in it. Do not want.

Hopefully, a more value oriented LCD company will come out with something similar.

Hopefully, 'value' means 'no HDCP' and 'no PWM' and 'no capacitive touch instead of real buttons'.

[pianowizard]

Yes, those Eizo's are pretty slick, but not worth $2,500 to me since I'd need two. Hopefully, a more value oriented LCD company will come out with something similar.

Why do you find it better to have two 26.5" 1920x1920 monitors, than having one 40" 3840x2160 monitor? The latter requires just one video output, has more total real estate, occupies slightly less space on your desk, and costs much less. I paid $499 shipped for my Crossover 404K from eBay, and $448 shipped for my Seiki Pro SM40UNP from Newegg. They were brand new.

I don't have room on my desk for a third monitor and I'm pretty happy with the Dells, so I'll stick with what I got for now.

If I were you, I would sell both 2007FP's and upgrade to a single, much bigger widescreen display. You wouldn't get much money for these 2007FP's though, probably only $30 each. I bought my first 2007FP new in Aug 2008 for $150, but the second one (used) in Jan 2013 for $38. Both were local Craigslist transactions.

Hopefully, 'value' means 'no HDCP' and 'no PWM' and 'no capacitive touch instead of real buttons'.

I too hate monitors (or most electronic devices for that matter) that use touch buttons instead of real buttons, because I have to look at them to use them. Also, many of them are oversensitive, so that even though I intend to push the button just once, it's often detected as two or more pushes.

[ZaZ]

Why do you find it better to have two 26.5" 1920x1920 monitors, than having one 40" 3840x2160 monitor?

I have two LCDs because I like doing two things at once, each on their own screen. I'm not a tab person. In Firefox, I prefer to open a link in a new window and have it fill the window, which would make doing something else a problem with one screen. Then I can set my Logitech mouse to close the top window with the wheel click, which I also like.

[pianowizard]

I have two LCDs because I like doing two things at once, each on their own screen. I'm not a tab person.

I too dislike tabs, but prefer to spread out a bunch of windows. I have seven windows on my three screens as we speak, and I am just doing light work!

In Firefox, I prefer to open a link in a new window and have it fill the window, which would make doing something else a problem with one screen.

In Windows 10, we can use Windows Key + left/right arrow to get the active window to occupy the left/right half of the screen, kind of like maximizing a window on the left/right monitor. But I don't know if this shortcut works in Windows 7, which I suspect you are using.

[ZaZ]

Yes, that does work in Windows 7. For me the marginal value is pretty low since I'm mostly happy with what I have now.