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Why do people keep going back to Thinkpad?

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FryPpy
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Re: Why do people keep going back to Thinkpad?

#31 Post by FryPpy » Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:31 pm

My 0.2c to 701c ;)
Old ThinkPads have good BIOS with all things in place: PM bios for older systems + ACPI for newer and EC that do all this work. All this things works right till T60 era :( may be this is Lenovo's BAD thing may be this is due transition to dualcore processors ):
And what about 701c? Fn+F1! You can switch to BIOS screen from already working OS and return to work without rebooting. May be this feature is not big deal on ThinkPad. But I have seen this before only on Sun computers (Stop+A) and that was cool.
Thinkpad4by3 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:40 pm
madicetea wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:23 pm
Did we totally ignore the world of the Panasonic Toughbooks?
Well that's basically like bringing tanks into a truck battle. Yeah I mean it's going to win on durability, but it's not at all the same thing.
Ok. Let it be Let's Note from Panasonic ;) There are a big family of notebook series under this name. Different size and features. All is slimmer and lighter than Toughbook... but only some models can be bought outside the island :(

I wanted to write separate thread "Off-Topic Stuff" in january (it was my new year present) but still Work In Progress. Upgrading Panasonic is much more harder than ThinPad.
And may be write it this weekends....
Last edited by FryPpy on Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Why do people keep going back to Thinkpad?

#32 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:35 pm

FryPpy wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:31 pm
My 0.2c to 701c ;)
Old ThinkPads have good BIOS with all things in place: PM bios for older systems + ACPI for newer and EC that do all this work. All this things works right till T60 era :( may be this is Lenovo's BAD thing may be this is due transition to dualcore processors ):
And what about 701c? Fn+F1! You can switch to BIOS screen from already working OS and return to work without rebooting. May be this feature is not big deal on ThinkPad. But I have seen this before only on Sun computers (Stop+A) and that was cool.
I have a Sharp and a Tandy that did that BIOS thing. Really seemed neat at first until I realized that I believe with all 3 most settings will require a reboot to take into effect or immediately reboot anyway. I have a TI laptop(some later Tandys/Panasonics did this too) where you have to use a DOS program to change the BIOS.
Thinkpad4by3's Law of the Universe.

The efficiency of two screens equally sized with equal numbers if pixels are equal. The time spent by a 4:3 user complaining about 16:9 is proportional to the inefficiency working with a 16:9 display, therefore the amount of useful work extracted is equal.

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Re: Why do people keep going back to Thinkpad?

#33 Post by FryPpy » Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:41 pm

Thinkpad4by3 wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:35 pm
I have a Sharp and a Tandy that did that BIOS thing. Really seemed neat at first until I realized that I believe with all 3 most settings will require a reboot to take into effect or immediately reboot anyway. I have a TI laptop(some later Tandys/Panasonics did this too) where you have to use a DOS program to change the BIOS.
I understand that this feature is not very important on ThinkPad.
On SUN after Stop+A you drop to shell (like modern UEFI shell) and can do rescue actions or reboot injured OS.
AND old ThinkPads have PS utility to manage BIOS things from DOS;)

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Re: Why do people keep going back to Thinkpad?

#34 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:43 pm

FryPpy wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:41 pm
Thinkpad4by3 wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:35 pm
I have a Sharp and a Tandy that did that BIOS thing. Really seemed neat at first until I realized that I believe with all 3 most settings will require a reboot to take into effect or immediately reboot anyway. I have a TI laptop(some later Tandys/Panasonics did this too) where you have to use a DOS program to change the BIOS.
I understand that this feature is not very important on ThinkPad.
On SUN after Stop+A you drop to shell (like modern UEFI shell) and can do rescue actions or reboot injured OS.
AND old ThinkPads have PS utility to manage BIOS things from DOS;)
Oh yeah I remember Stop-A when I was fooling around with the Sun Sparcstation that I have sitting in my closet. Wierd machines..but a handy command.
Thinkpad4by3's Law of the Universe.

The efficiency of two screens equally sized with equal numbers if pixels are equal. The time spent by a 4:3 user complaining about 16:9 is proportional to the inefficiency working with a 16:9 display, therefore the amount of useful work extracted is equal.

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Re: Why do people keep going back to Thinkpad?

#35 Post by axur-delmeria » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:50 am

TheForgottenKing wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:36 pm
I've already opened up a 701C keyboard. I can post pictures of the matrix.
I'm not sure I can figure out the matrix with just pictures. It's best to have the keyboard at hand and use a multimeter in continuity test mode to verify.
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Re: Why do people keep going back to Thinkpad?

#36 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:52 am

axur-delmeria wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:50 am
TheForgottenKing wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:36 pm
I've already opened up a 701C keyboard. I can post pictures of the matrix.
I'm not sure I can figure out the matrix with just pictures. It's best to have the keyboard at hand and use a multimeter in continuity test mode to verify.
Screw the multimeter, get a breakout board and hook every pin up to an Arduino. There is a program that will get the pinout simply by pushing each key down. You'll be done so much quicker.
Thinkpad4by3's Law of the Universe.

The efficiency of two screens equally sized with equal numbers if pixels are equal. The time spent by a 4:3 user complaining about 16:9 is proportional to the inefficiency working with a 16:9 display, therefore the amount of useful work extracted is equal.

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Re: Why do people keep going back to Thinkpad?

#37 Post by TheForgottenKing » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:56 pm

Thinkpad4by3 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:52 am
axur-delmeria wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:50 am


I'm not sure I can figure out the matrix with just pictures. It's best to have the keyboard at hand and use a multimeter in continuity test mode to verify.
Screw the multimeter, get a breakout board and hook every pin up to an Arduino. There is a program that will get the pinout simply by pushing each key down. You'll be done so much quicker.
Can you link me to that?
W701ds: i7-940XM - 32GB DDR3 -128GB SSD + 1TB HDD + ODD - FX 2800M - 1920x1200 @ 17" + 768x1280 @ 10" - Dock + Wacom + Calibrator
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WIP:
701R - i5-8250U - 16GB DDR4 - 256GB NVMe SSD - 1920x1200 @ 10.1" - 701C Keyboard

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Re: Why do people keep going back to Thinkpad?

#38 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:13 pm

TheForgottenKing wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:56 pm
Thinkpad4by3 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:52 am

Screw the multimeter, get a breakout board and hook every pin up to an Arduino. There is a program that will get the pinout simply by pushing each key down. You'll be done so much quicker.
Can you link me to that?
https://www.instructables.com/id/How-to ... ontroller/

This shows you it all. You will need some custom adapters for the 701C's specific ribbon cable but past that it should be very similar.

About 2/3 into the video he goes into the matrix finder.
Thinkpad4by3's Law of the Universe.

The efficiency of two screens equally sized with equal numbers if pixels are equal. The time spent by a 4:3 user complaining about 16:9 is proportional to the inefficiency working with a 16:9 display, therefore the amount of useful work extracted is equal.

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Re: Why do people keep going back to Thinkpad?

#39 Post by TheForgottenKing » Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:32 am

Thinkpad4by3 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:13 pm
TheForgottenKing wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:56 pm


Can you link me to that?
https://www.instructables.com/id/How-to ... ontroller/

This shows you it all. You will need some custom adapters for the 701C's specific ribbon cable but past that it should be very similar.

About 2/3 into the video he goes into the matrix finder.
Thank you
W701ds: i7-940XM - 32GB DDR3 -128GB SSD + 1TB HDD + ODD - FX 2800M - 1920x1200 @ 17" + 768x1280 @ 10" - Dock + Wacom + Calibrator
T530: i5-3210M - 8GB DDR3 - 128GB SSD - 1600x900 @ 15.6"

WIP:
701R - i5-8250U - 16GB DDR4 - 256GB NVMe SSD - 1920x1200 @ 10.1" - 701C Keyboard

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Re: Why do people keep going back to Thinkpad?

#40 Post by Dragunov » Fri May 24, 2019 7:07 pm

Insomniac1971 wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:55 pm
Admin you should make this sticky.

Why is that people who have had Thinkpad before, and then bought something else, keep going back to Thinkpad?


Is it an quality issue?
An stability issue?
Or the fact that Thinkpad are made to meet military standards where other brands don't brag about this?
W540
T440p
T430/s
T420/s
T400
T500
R series.

All easy to repair, upgrade and improve.
Great support
They just work.

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Re: Why do people keep going back to Thinkpad?

#41 Post by iamdmc » Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:24 pm

TheForgottenKing wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:32 am
Thinkpad4by3 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:13 pm


https://www.instructables.com/id/How-to ... ontroller/

This shows you it all. You will need some custom adapters for the 701C's specific ribbon cable but past that it should be very similar.

About 2/3 into the video he goes into the matrix finder.
Thank you
Did you ever get the 701C keyboard to work with USB?
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Re: Why do people keep going back to Thinkpad?

#42 Post by TheForgottenKing » Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:43 pm

iamdmc wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:24 pm
TheForgottenKing wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:32 am


Thank you
Did you ever get the 701C keyboard to work with USB?
Nope, ended up working on other things.
W701ds: i7-940XM - 32GB DDR3 -128GB SSD + 1TB HDD + ODD - FX 2800M - 1920x1200 @ 17" + 768x1280 @ 10" - Dock + Wacom + Calibrator
T530: i5-3210M - 8GB DDR3 - 128GB SSD - 1600x900 @ 15.6"

WIP:
701R - i5-8250U - 16GB DDR4 - 256GB NVMe SSD - 1920x1200 @ 10.1" - 701C Keyboard

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Re: Why do people keep going back to Thinkpad?

#43 Post by TonyJZX » Tue May 05, 2020 6:07 am

You would have to ask yourself about what attracts people to a certain product... what builds allegiance.

This same topic would be common on say the Apple forums, the Rolex forums, the Mazda MX5 forums etc. - you get it... any product that attracts a fan base... I've even seen stuff like a Dell laptop forum!

I think my first experiences with my own laptop was with a Thinkpad. You know what they say about your first...

I had used laptops at work but they werent MINE and I didnt feel anything for them.

For me, Thinkpads sort of died with the T420 series however I still find some of that "Thinkpad magic" even with the newer ones. I see flashes of that even in the e485/495s I deal with today.

I do however also like the Latitudes and the Elitebooks. The 'magic' is there in those, not as strong as Thinkpads.

Remember there's a huge legion who love Macbooks.

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Re: Why do people keep going back to Thinkpad?

#44 Post by kfzhu1229 » Tue May 05, 2020 4:30 pm

TonyJZX wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 6:07 am
You would have to ask yourself about what attracts people to a certain product... what builds allegiance.
Yeah that is exactly what I was about to say. It is entirely possible most lads here started out with a ThinkPad and there is no reason for them to look elsewhere. Others might have tried Latitudes or Elitebooks and find themselves miss the things that they took for granted such as the great ThinkPad-original trackpoint and the consistent black look of it, as well as a very good keyboard (yeah sure the newer ones don't feel nearly as good as the older ThinkPads, but they are still excellent for their eras)
I know Dell Latitude rather well now ever since I restored a free Latitude D630 for a second life to my friend (and subsequently two Latitude D830's), and that I got a lot of three old Dell Latitudes on Canada's local classifieds Kijiji (C600, C840, CP M233ST) and restored them all into fully working order. Lots of ppl here may never have this experience (And for example, instead of a TPFancontrol for Dells, do you know that for pre-sandy bridge regular class Dell Latitude and Precision laptops, Fn+Shift+1 5 3 2 4 and then Fn+R or Fn+T will give you the same?).
Also, in addition to a Dell laptop forum, there is also a "semi-official" store selling exclusively Dell parts called parts-people.com (Dell acknowledges them and refers their customers to that website when Dell doesn't have the parts in stock)
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Re: Why do people keep going back to Thinkpad?

#45 Post by TonyJZX » Sat May 09, 2020 11:05 pm

I think the sumnmary for me is that Thinkpad has been good to me on a personal level AND they are the best when used in the enterprise. When I've worked in places that was a Thinkpad only office across hundreds if not thousands then Thinkpad usually is the choice that is lowest headache.

On the other side of the coin Ive had terrible experiences with Toshiba and Acer Travelmates across businesses.

I've had good experiences with Latitudes in business, less so with Elitebooks.

I personally had ok experiences with Acer on a personal level and ambivalent experiences in business.

Offbrands like Asus are dire on just about every level. I have a fondness for Fujitsu.. they're laptops have a curious Japanese flavour.

Some businesses just cant afford the Thinkpad Latitude Elitebook trio and thats sad if I have to work on that level.

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Re: Why do people keep going back to Thinkpad?

#46 Post by wujstefan » Tue May 12, 2020 5:53 am

Well this varies on what you value the most.

I've been using HP Elitebooks 8730w, 8740w, 8760w and 8770w, all with dreamcolor IPS (or TN for 8730w) for a while. Great displays (all but 8730w). Poor KB (8740w/8730w), fragile motherboards, high price, poor upgradeability, useless additional software, very poor battery life. 8730w used expensive DDR2 memory. And so on :) All I am left from those is a single 8760w beatup that my kids are using. I will most likely install AMD M4000 GPU in it since it's still better than the quadro it sports, and will live happily.

Later on I moved to Dell Precision - first M6400 Covet with RGB LED, later on M6600 (FHD TN) and M6700 (FHD Premiercolor IPS). Very good displays (all of them, albeit I liked Dreamcolors better - even though they are not 100% matte), great upgradeability (with modded GPUs as a cherry on top of the cake), good battery life on Optimus (FHD TN only). Tragically bad, almost non-existent trackpoint, poor keyboard, lots of issues with peripherials and... poor driver support! I've got rid of them and am left with M6400 Covet only (and I will keep it as a retro WUXGA gaming machine, even though I have some issues with QX9300). This orange baby is just beautiful :)

After selling the last one - M6700 w/premiercolor I have bought P50. And after a screen mod I cannot imagine getting back to any of those before. I know it's 15,4" vs 17,3", but the keyboard+trackpoint+vantage software were deciding factors.

Aaaand I've bought P50 for less money than I've got from my M6700 :P

Note: I am a CAD designer, that's why you can see workstation-class systems here :)
Too many thinkpads not enough time!
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Re: Why do people keep going back to Thinkpad?

#47 Post by atagunov » Tue May 12, 2020 9:32 am

T520, X220: sturdiness, repairbility, reliability, aesthetics. Classic keyboard
T60: hopefully will be a nice project to hack on, the last big 4:3

P.S. never use the nipple
X220, 2 *T520

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Re: Why do people keep going back to Thinkpad?

#48 Post by ThinkPadMiami » Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:50 pm

Why not! Have a fleet and have had a fleet for years. Excellent reliability and value.

Same as Roland.
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Re: Why do people keep going back to Thinkpad?

#49 Post by cadillacmike68 » Fri Jun 05, 2020 6:47 pm

With the exception of mt first laptop, which I believe was an old micro express bought back around 1995-96, All the laptops I've owned since then have been ThinkPads. It helped that I worked for a subsidiary of IBM, and got merged In to IBM and then Merged OUT in some large corporate networking deals (grrr), and used ThinkPads there.

This was in the 700 and 300 era, got my first use on a 760. then on to T20/30 series and later on my own to T60 and now T500 / 530. I've used other brands, notably dell latitudes while on active duty and in the CZ, but never thought their screens were so great. The dell latts were serviceable though. I've had to support / work on other brands and NO THANKS to most other brands. I also used Thinkpads at some Army Logistics University courses.

So why ThinkPads for me?

Screens - while I'm not a fan of laptop screens, ThinkPads are much better overall That said, my three most used ones are in docks with larger screens.
Keyboards - even more so; I DISLIKE most laptop keyboards but ThinkPads have the best ones around.
Dock - especially the Dock II and Advanced Dock
Expansion / Ultrabay - simply Fantastic
Upgradability Easy to change / upgrade cards, RAM, CPU, etc
Maintenance - The HMMs are great plus you can actually get a T series apart without breaking the thing in half
Info/ Support - until recently you could dig up almost anything, then Lenovo shutteed some stuff but this forum and the wikis still have it. :D

Probably more reasons, but these are the main ones.
Last edited by cadillacmike68 on Fri Sep 18, 2020 8:04 pm, edited 3 times in total.
600, 600X
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Re: Why do people keep going back to Thinkpad?

#50 Post by kfzhu1229 » Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:08 pm

cadillacmike68 wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 6:47 pm
It helped that I worked for a subsidiary of IBM, and got merged In to IBM and then Merged OUT in some large corporate networking deals (grrr), and used ThinkPads there.
Oooo well my mum used to work in Lotus in Beijing and then that became a part of IBM, and that's how both me and my mum ended up being super familiar with ThinkPads and prefer the use of the trackpoint/pointing stick.
And this was also back in the late 90s, when Chinese ppl aren't nearly as rich as they are now, and that ppl in China always thought foreign goods are just superior so having a ThinkPad with you will definitely catch a lot of attention.
cadillacmike68 wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 6:47 pm
Screens - while I'm not a fan of laptop screens, ThinkPads are much better overall That said, my two most used ones are in docks with larger screens.
Keyboards - even more so; I DISLIKE most laptop keyboards but ThinkPads have the best ones around.
Dock - especially the Dock II and Advanced Dock
Expansion / Ultrabay - simply Fantastic
Upgradability Easy th change / upgrade cards, RAM, CPU, etc
Maintenance - The HMMs are great plus you can actually get a T series apart without breaking the thing in half
Info/ Support - until recently you could dig up almost anything, then Lenovo shutteed some stuff but this forum and the wikis still have it. :D
Gotta point out for the screen though, while the likes of A3xp, R50p and T6xp had state of the art IPS displays, the panels they used on the lower end models even like regular XGA T2x devices are truly state of the art horrible with non-existent black levels. So bad that when I put one of those Samsung panels from a T22 parts in a Latitude C600 and sold that off, I got a complaint for the poor screen quality, despite the screen having no yellowing or unevening for sitting in a drawer for a decade! Don't know why IBM doesn't source the T2x XGA panels from itself, as the IBM panels that I have come across at least doesn't give you eye strain for using it.
I have a port replicator II and a dock I and II. The dock I and ii works pretty well in my opinion if you ignore the fan sound (I use the dock I with a trash-picked USB2 PCI controller to enable USB2 on T2x and A3x that I have), but I have problems with the port replicator ii. For some reason docking and undocking on the port replicator ii is extremely unsatisfying and feels like I am gonna break the eject lever.
Well for support, you can again still dig all of that up if you have the advantage of understanding Chinese. Having access to both the drivers on this forum and the drivers from think.lenovo.com.cn certainly works as I have found many occasions where the Win9X drivers off this forum doesn't work at all with older devices like 76x and 38x.
Also I am actually wondering why are the T4x Ultrabay 2.5" IDE adapters so hard to find? Did IBM not produce many of them? In comparison there are plentiful of genuine Dell ones in stock and the SATA ones are cloned with aftermarket solutions everywhere.
Dell Lat CP MMX-233 64mb 40gb W2k
600 PII-266 416mb 40gb WXP
T23 PIII 1.13ghz 1gb W7
Lat D830 X9000 8gb 128gb WSXGA+ Ultrasharp fp W10
T530i 15.6" i7 16gb fp W10
UXGA:
A30p PIII 1.2 1gb W7 (IDTech)
T43p 2.26 2gb fp W10 (Sharp)
Lat C840 P4-2.5 2gb 60gb W7 (Ultrasharp)

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Re: Why do people keep going back to Thinkpad?

#51 Post by dr_st » Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:01 am

Most of the benefits of a Thinkpad apply to any brand of business laptops; the availability of IPS screens on select models was indeed very unique ~15 years ago, but now it is no longer so. Many models, including consumer ones offer IPS screens as an option, and the specific panels used on Thinkpads frequently lose in overall quality to other IPS panels.

What's consistently been better than other brands is the keyboard implementation. Even on the 6-row layout, which I don't like and won't buy a laptop with - the keyboard feel itself is superb to every other laptop I had tried. The trackpoint is also usually better than on other laptops that feature the technology, but it's been slowly deteriorating as far as I can see. Also, if you take a system that features a Synaptics trackpoint, and replace one of the stock caps with a Thinkpad trackpoint cap - you will get the same performance as on a Thinkpad. I've done it to my old Compaq Evo at the time, and it was a night and day difference.
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Re: Why do people keep going back to Thinkpad?

#52 Post by iamdmc » Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:08 am

dr_st wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:01 am
Most of the benefits of a Thinkpad apply to any brand of business laptops; the availability of IPS screens on select models was indeed very unique ~15 years ago, but now it is no longer so. Many models, including consumer ones offer IPS screens as an option, and the specific panels used on Thinkpads frequently lose in overall quality to other IPS panels.

What's consistently been better than other brands is the keyboard implementation. Even on the 6-row layout, which I don't like and won't buy a laptop with - the keyboard feel itself is superb to every other laptop I had tried. The trackpoint is also usually better than on other laptops that feature the technology, but it's been slowly deteriorating as far as I can see. Also, if you take a system that features a Synaptics trackpoint, and replace one of the stock caps with a Thinkpad trackpoint cap - you will get the same performance as on a Thinkpad. I've done it to my old Compaq Evo at the time, and it was a night and day difference.
Agree with the point on Trackpoint! The elan trackpoint on my T480s is a significant step in the wrong direction compared with the synaptics/others I've used for 20 years prior. I find myself using the trackpad more, which has become significantly improved. Just wish they would add improvements without making another part worse. Any idea if you can swap the T480s keyboard with another model that still has synaptics?
ThinkPad T480s
i7-8550u | 16+8GB RAM | 500GB Samsung 970 2280 M.2 M-key PCIe x4 | FHDtoQHD upgrade | 2242 M.2 B-key PCIe x2 @WWAN slot | Intel AX200

The X61 is dead... long live the X61

Past IBM ThinkPads: T450s, X250, X230, X220, X300, T410, X61s, T60p, T41, X31, T23, A21m

cadillacmike68
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Re: Why do people keep going back to Thinkpad?

#53 Post by cadillacmike68 » Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:15 am

I knew that I had forgotten something, the trackpoint. That little led button. The original ones could sand your fingertip off. But they were vastly superior to the touchpads. I still prefer a mouse (I carry the BM or Lenovo travel mouse everywhere) but in a cramped space (airplane seat) the red button prevails.
600, 600X
760LD FUBARd
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T41 T42 T43
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Re: Why do people keep going back to Thinkpad?

#54 Post by cadillacmike68 » Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:22 pm

kfzhu1229 wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:08 pm
...Also I am actually wondering why are the T4x Ultrabay 2.5" IDE adapters so hard to find? Did IBM not produce many of them? In comparison there are plentiful of genuine Dell ones in stock and the SATA ones are cloned with aftermarket solutions everywhere.
I don't know either. They weren't hard to find 8-10 years ago, but now the ones for the T60 series and T40 series are almost non-existent.

But it appears that 99.9% of whats out there are "aftermarket" versions of the Serial Ultrabay Slim that fit the T400 / T500 / W500 and later. I already have 8 or 9 of those (bought 4 or 5 aftermarkets and then found my stash of Lenovo originals :x )

I dug out a few after a couple dozen different type searches. I even found some for the 600 series which I bought. There's an original IBM T40 series one for only $200 from France, does it come with a bottle of Dom Perringon? I'm going to get the more reasonably priced ones from the other side of the planet.
600, 600X
760LD FUBARd
T21 2647 T22 2647 1@ 1GHz SXGA+ 4 more; T23 2647 1@ 1.2GHz SXGA+ 3 more
T30 2366-88U 2GHz; 2366-83U 1.8G; 5@ 2366-LU0/66U; 2367-KU6 FUBARd
T41 T42 T43
T61 8897 2.4GHz SXGA+; 8898 2.4Ghz; 6463 2@ WSXGA+; 7658 2.5GHz; T61p; 6 more T61s
T500 2
T530 W530

kfzhu1229
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Re: Why do people keep going back to Thinkpad?

#55 Post by kfzhu1229 » Sat Jun 06, 2020 3:20 pm

dr_st wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:01 am
Most of the benefits of a Thinkpad apply to any brand of business laptops; the availability of IPS screens on select models was indeed very unique ~15 years ago, but now it is no longer so. Many models, including consumer ones offer IPS screens as an option, and the specific panels used on Thinkpads frequently lose in overall quality to other IPS panels.

What's consistently been better than other brands is the keyboard implementation. Even on the 6-row layout, which I don't like and won't buy a laptop with - the keyboard feel itself is superb to every other laptop I had tried. The trackpoint is also usually better than on other laptops that feature the technology, but it's been slowly deteriorating as far as I can see. Also, if you take a system that features a Synaptics trackpoint, and replace one of the stock caps with a Thinkpad trackpoint cap - you will get the same performance as on a Thinkpad. I've done it to my old Compaq Evo at the time, and it was a night and day difference.
Well yeah I was gonna say that, afterall ThinkPad defined what a business class laptop is like and then Dell and HP followed suit. As a result, things like Ultrabay and the docking solutions are very much the same on Dell and HP with different names. Dell's C-bay and D-bay are larger and thicker but offers wider compatibility and actually have useful module battery options.
The keyboards on ThinkPads are definitely a lot more consistent. Sure its experience has degraded as the laptops get thinner and that they have switched to the chocolate island style keyboards, but those changes are tiny compared to how much different Dell and HP keyboards are to each other.
Also I thought for the bad trackpoint replicas on the other machines, it also has to do with driver and other aspects of ergonomics as well. I wish I tried that trackpoint cap swap trick with the Latitude C600 though as that had a Synaptics "dualpoint" system and the Dells that I have now all have Alps.
Dell Lat CP MMX-233 64mb 40gb W2k
600 PII-266 416mb 40gb WXP
T23 PIII 1.13ghz 1gb W7
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Re: Why do people keep going back to Thinkpad?

#56 Post by draco2527 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 5:46 pm

I think I have posted some/all of this before. Time makes everything fuzzy, but here is my current take.

I got my first laptop sometime in the 90s. It was EXPENSIVE, but light. It was a company that is still around, but has changed names/owners a few times. It was a 486SX/25, basically a desktop CPU in a portable format. I think my HDD was something like 200MB. Price was somewhere around 5-7K. I would be using the laptop and it would blue screen. It took me a bit, but I finally figured out when it was happening. If I placed pressure on a certain area of the palmrest, BSOD! Today, we have a LOT of options, and most time either someone helps us out or we figure a way. In the 90s, you called someone. Told them your problem, got an RMA and sent in your product. You might wait a week or three months...before they even acknowledged getting your item. Considering this, I decided to dig into the issue, and took the laptop apart. The engineering of the laptop was "not bad" for the time, but nothing to write home about. This particular laptop had a "grounding wire" that attached to the palm-rest on one end and the motherboard on the other. The ground end of the palm-rest consisted of a metal eye, attached to the wire and screwed into the palm-rest. If you put pressure the right way, the eye-let (again, metal) would touch other things and short/ground out. BOOM, BSOD! So I re-routed the ground wire and changed the eye-let. No more BSOD. In those days, software was also limited. Most of the time, you ended up writing your own.

I started working for a fortune 500 company, in their RMA department. Basically, I handled all (computer) equipment issues across the country. All equipment came into my team (I eventually became the supervisor for the RMA department), it was either repaired or replaced and returned to the originating location. Well, at that time we also worked with laptops. Now, in those days you had to be someone REALLY important to have one of them. They where not handed out like candy, like they are today. Executives and above ONLY. I became an IBM certified technician in 97-98 (when it was worth something, and you got a plaque engraved with your name - and room to add more certifications - similar to the ones at dealerships for their Auto techs/mechanics). So, I took apart my first ThinkPad (can't remember the model 360xx, but it had a pen for screen input). The design was impressive. The 76X series blew me away and I absolutely could not wait.....
X220T Multi-touch
T410
X61T (pen)
X61T X2 (pen/touch) 1-WIN7 1-WIN8
T61

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Re: Why do people keep going back to Thinkpad?

#57 Post by draco2527 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:15 pm

To own the $10-12,000 770. It took me a while to get a 770, by then they had been discontinued. However, I have owned the 701C, 701CS, the 760 series, the 600 series, and MANY MORE.

Most of the time, their hardware and implementation was better than others. Sometimes I got upset with IBM and switched brands, however this exit was always brief. Had Dell, Compaq and Fujitsu in my laptop stable....but the ThinkPad was always on top!

The acquisition of the ThinkPad brand by Lenovo was a LARGE blow to many. I was listening to the radio on my way back from work, and the announcement was made. I was in shock! I exited the brand for a year or two. Went back with the release of the X60 T. That laptop cost me a lot of $. People waited months to get one. I posted about getting mine in something like 3 months after I ordered it, and the internet broke. I believe people had been waiting 5-6 months at that point and still had not received their laptop.

In a nutshell. IBM put a lot of technologies in their laptop, while keeping everything minimalistic. Something that has worked for MANY. While some of the tech. never matured, it still paved the way for innovations. These innovations where not a requirement or a need for the average user, but they did help in the business world. Then there was the keyboard, and the Track-Point (try scrolling a roller mouse that is attached to the side of the display, or a "plug-in" trackball that bolts to the side of the laptop -yes, that is what other manufacturers had). When I get rid of my ThinkPad's, people are always surprised that my touchpad looks NEW. Well, the first thing I do is DISABLE IT. Never use it. The 760, 770 and 600 series became know as tanks. I think that still holds true today for a lot of the ThinkPad models, when compared to the products it competes against.

Lenovo grew on me, over the years. Most satisfying of all, IBM is still working in the background (they handle/d the warranty side of the business for Lenovo. About a year ago they started getting rid of the IBM techs -old timers - so not sure what happened since)

As a final note, what other manufacturer has sold (in electronics) an item called a "reserve edition" and sold them like hotcakes. Look at the ThinkPad reserve edition, with dedicated 24/7 Concierge service for 36 months.
X220T Multi-touch
T410
X61T (pen)
X61T X2 (pen/touch) 1-WIN7 1-WIN8
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