"Price discussions" in Marketplace

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#1 Post by **KristianJ** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 9:34 am

Whilst I know how great the Marketplace is, I think that sometimes there can be instances where questioning a forum member's asking price, making offers in the thread that are substantially lower than the asking price and the like, are a bit unfair to the forum member, especially if they're not quite sure of the value of what they're selling. It could hurt their chances of selling the item (although a high price may end up doing such a thing)

I've seen in a couple of other forums with "for sale" subforums a rule that requests that any "pricing debates" or negotiations be restricted to either email or PM, which I believe is more helpful than a public exchange of posts. That sort of private advice from the more experienced forum members would be a more positive move, IMHO. As a sample, I quote the rule as enforced by the Acoustic Guitar Forum:

3. Pricing Debates: If you believe that a seller is asking too much for an item, you have two choices:

A. Email or PM the seller, and ask about the price... it's always possible that the seller would appreciate advice on current market value.

B. Do nothing.

It is NOT acceptable to openly question the sellers' prices in their threads. It's rude, and it most likely ruins the seller's chances of selling the item. If you are right, and the item is priced too high, it will not sell. It's that simple. If the item does sell... well, obviously it wasn't priced too high, now was it?

mpcook · #2 Post by **mpcook** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 11:54 am

I thoroughly agree with this suggestion. I had posted an X31 and got a PM from a long time member suggesting I was asking too much. That was very helpful. On the other hand, posting a public reply to the FS message stating the same is potentially going to become a "self fulfilling prophecy". If the item is posted with no replies for a while, the seller will "get the message". Let the market set the price, not someone's opinion. I don't know that this should be a "rule" but I think it is courteous.

MIke

#3 Post by **GomJabbar** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:17 pm

I do not frequent the Marketplace forum much, but from my perspective, that seems quite reasonable.

NS · #4 Post by NS » Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:20 am

Yeah, i fully agree that those private stuffs should be dealt with in a private manner. Some members wanted to sell their stuffs at a higher rate because of some personal reasons and etc...

Shooting that seller down openly will result in an endless forum war.

**Hoped that the admins can quote the rule mentioned in OP's post into the marketplace section**

#5 Post by **KristianJ** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:52 am

I wouldn't necessarily advocate the word by word adoption of that rule - just a guideline that members are encouraged to adopt. The options A and B are probably sufficient - the paragraph starting "It is not acceptable..." could probably be reworded with a bit more tact.

And Mike, I had courtesy in mind as well, seeing it as more of a recommendation than a rule.

Sometimes the barrier of different currencies and exchange rates may explain misunderstandings in terms of prices (although the vast majority of the items originate from the US), and it may be such an innocent reason that explains what may appear to be an exorbitant price.

Phazer · #6 Post by **Phazer** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 6:26 am

I agree 100%. I'm quite surprised there hasn't been more flame wars because of that.

#7 Post by **ryengineer** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 6:48 am

Count me in too.

pianowizard · #8 Post by **pianowizard** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 9:16 am

These are excellent suggestions!

#9 Post by **Kyocera** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 9:33 am

It is an excellent point, it was brought up months back *by me* and was ignored. Let's see what happens if enough people get on board.

dsigma6 · #10 Post by **dsigma6** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:50 am

Agreed.

I've been known to make a comment about an asking price, but generally when it's ridiculous, and simliar items are up for sale concurrently for much less. If people took a moment to look around, they wouldn't get bashed as much.

Make it a rule and I swear I won't do it again!

crashnburn · #11 Post by **crashnburn** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 1:58 pm

dsigma6 wrote:Agreed.

I've been known to make a comment about an asking price, but generally when it's ridiculous, and simliar items are up for sale concurrently for much less. If people took a moment to look around, they wouldn't get bashed as much.

Make it a rule and I swear I won't do it again!

The above rule recommendation ASSUMES that the BUYER is more market price aware than the SELLER.

What if the buyer is asking X and the seller is willing to pay or unaware that X is higher than market value. Then the lack of open discussion puts the SELLER at an advantage in FOOLING the new buyer.

#12 Post by **Harryc** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 2:01 pm

crashnburn wrote: What if the buyer is asking X and the seller is willing to pay or unaware that X is higher than market value. Then the lack of open discussion puts the SELLER at an advantage in FOOLING the new buyer.

Welcome to the Free Enterprise economic system. Have you ever bought an automobile?

dsigma6 · #13 Post by **dsigma6** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 2:03 pm

I think the often used term due diligence applies here.

I don't see this becoming a rule here...I frankly don't like people getting ripped off in front of my eyes (not that the majority of sellers here would do that...)

#14 Post by **Harryc** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 2:09 pm

dsigma6 wrote:I think the often used term due diligence applies here.

I don't see this becoming a rule here...I frankly don't like people getting ripped off in front of my eyes (not that the majority of sellers here would do that...)

Ok, what's your definition of 'ripped off'?. 10% over market price? 20%? 30%?. Do you think that your perception of 'ripped off' is the same as others on the board? I think the fact that the price police are allowed to roam free detracts from the usefulness of the Marketplace forum to sellers.

dsigma6 · #15 Post by **dsigma6** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 2:12 pm

Harryc wrote:Ok, what's your definition of 'ripped off'?. 10% over market price? 20%? 30%?. Do you think that your perception of 'ripped off' is the same as others on the board? I think the fact that the price police are allowed to roam free detracts from the usefulness of the Marketplace forum.

I wasn't posting here to start a debate, but short and sweet, most of us are on the same page in terms of what makes a good deal. I'm not the good-deal police, so I'll mind to my business and everyone else their own.

#16 Post by **rkawakami** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 2:23 pm

crashnburn wrote:The above rule recommendation ASSUMES that the BUYER is more market price aware than the SELLER.

An hourly occurence on eBay

.

crashnburn wrote:What if the buyer is asking X and the seller is willing to pay or unaware that X is higher than market value.

I believe you have the wording of buyer and seller here reversed but I think I understand what you are saying. Harryc has succinctly stated the forces at work here. The seller, if he has done his/her homework, should know what the current market will bear. If he/she asks for a price a little bit above that, then they're simply trying to earn a few more dollars than the rest of the population. If they have done NO homework, then most of the marketplace will realize that and should, as a courtsey not openly question that price. There will of course be some buyer(s) who, a) don't know the current market price, or b) are desperate enough to obtain the item no matter the cost.

As I was typing this up, it looks like dsigma6 and Harryc have touched on the points I was trying to make. Most of the people here have a good idea what certain equipment is really "worth". This is usually based upon the knowledge of past sales in the Marketplace and off-site (eBay, craigslist, etc.). Are they "right"?. Maybe yes, maybe no. But that's what the Free Enterprise system is all about. Thus, the due diligence and caveat emptor sayings.

#17 Post by **Harryc** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 2:37 pm

dsigma6 wrote: I wasn't posting here to start a debate, but short and sweet, most of us are on the same page in terms of what makes a good deal.

I hear and understand what you are saying, but hear me out on this one example then I'll drop it. You say 'most of us are on the same page in terms of what makes a good deal', but what about a forum member in Belgium who is frequently used to paying say 30% more for laptops because he/she lives in Europe. Lets also say that I am selling a laptop worth $400 in the US on the Marketplace forum. The Belgium guy is used to paying $600 for this laptop in his/her economic system. If I offered the laptop for sale at $500, this Belgium member is happy as hell because he/she is getting a deal. Am I ripping them off? I say no because it's what the market can bear, and both the seller and buyer are satisfied. You have to take a look at the market you're dealing with and work within it. This is the only way to deal fairly with sellers here. The price police are disruptive to that process. The 'market' is not just cheap EBay prices in the US.

dsigma6 · #18 Post by **dsigma6** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:10 pm

Harry,

For all intents and purposes, I'm not talking about international exchanges. I've never dealt internationally on this forum, mostly because of the hassle involved. It sucks that foreign buyers often get the shaft when buying certain items, but that's why I live in the US.

Ray- You mean to tell me you spent almost 20 minutes typing that response up while we had already replied?

I thought you were gainfully employed?

note: Excessive emoticons used to show humor and not disdain.

#19 Post by **Harryc** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:19 pm

dsigma6 wrote: I've never dealt internationally on this forum, mostly because of the hassle involved. It sucks that foreign buyers often get the shaft when buying certain items, but that's why I live in the US.

Right, but just because you have not done that or do not plan to does not mean that others may not want to deal internationally. Are they really getting the shaft? Put yourself in their place. I just picked up a $500 dollar laptop that costs my friend $600 yesterday down the street in Antwerp ... Hmmm, I don't feel shafted

#20 Post by **rkawakami** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:27 pm

dsigma6 wrote:Ray- You mean to tell me you spent almost 20 minutes typing that response up while we had already replied? I thought you were gainfully employed?

I was still at home. In the middle of typing up my post, the timer went off. I had to go "pill a cat" (one of three or four per day). Only lost one drop of blood this time...

Still have fresh scars on my chest from a couple of days ago. Still haven't learned to check all 18 nails before dispensing meds

.

Regarding the open "price discussions"... yes it would be nice if public discourse is kept to a minimum. It is the courteous and civil thing to do (my single-handed attempt at driving down the market price of 512MB PC133 SDRAM notwithstanding; sorry Dan

).

#21 Post by **underclocker** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 7:36 pm

As a non-enforced guideline or suggestion, I agree with the spirit of the proposed subrules.

However, I think the Marketplace works really well right now, as does the entire board. I'm not sure any additional regulation will be welcome or enhance this community.

The Marketplace is fairly self-regulating and most of the time the price "suggestions" are good-natured or in good jest. I think many on this board are well educated ThinkPadders and detailed consumers. Others are in training. If you read between the lines a little, all that is really happening is poeple "helping" each other - essentially protecting the unsuspecting or uniformed about outrageous grabs at profit on items offered way over market.

Certainly, no one would want to stop the "great price, great item" posts?!

My opinion is that it works quite well and when someone tries to jack someone else, you can count on someone to let them have it a.k.a. post a warning for others.

For those that don't want to do a simple forum search or eBay search to find out what "market" is, they can pay the price of convenience a.k.a. buying while uniformed. Some people have more money than time.

#22 Post by **KristianJ** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:21 am

underclocker wrote: Certainly, no one would want to stop the "great price, great item" posts?!

I could never see such posts as a discouragement or conducive to a discussion of the asking price. Generally I agree with what you say in that people are well educated on the market, however I saw a FS thread where it almost bordered on being a reverse auction and the price offered by a member was well below the asking price and possibly below what the item plus accessories is actually worth considering similar sales in the Marketplace recently (which was what sprung me into posting the OP).

It's the possibility of the seller being offended by such an almost lowball offer (whatever the motive behind it, I believe all offers should be private). I guess what I'm saying ultimately is that if we do see a price for an item that we believe is above what the average value of the item is, we should be careful to consider how we address it, if at all.

dsigma6 · #23 Post by **dsigma6** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:03 am

Harryc wrote:Right, but just because you have not done that or do not plan to does not mean that others may not want to deal internationally.

[end thread]
I always try for one reply, but those questions I knew someone would ask always come up. I understand this isn't about me, which is why I said I'll stick to my business and everyone else their own.
[/end thread]

#24 Post by **JaneL** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:52 am

Well, I can put a stop to all of it. I can start locking threads in the Marketplace at the first post.

(Be careful what you ask for...)

#25 Post by **Harryc** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:02 am

nonny wrote:Well, I can put a stop to all of it. I can start locking threads in the Marketplace at the first post.

(Be careful what you ask for...)

I didn't see anyone ask for that. Your statement seems threatening or ominous. Was that intentional to stop discussion of this concern? This position does not represent the top notch forum moderation I've seen so far here.

"Price discussions" in Marketplace

"Price discussions" in Marketplace

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