Sticky: not a valid means of discussion

[qviri]

I have noticed the amount of stickies in the off-topic forum.

When I first load up the page (yes, I'm using a not-for-serious-work X-series screen), I can see an announcement with the forum rules, two political stickies, a vaguely political editorial sticky, and a "buy of the week" sticky. Much as I'd like to skip to the real content, I can't help but notice all the messages the administrators deemed important for me to know.

While I fully recognise the nationality and opinions of the forum owner, admins, and possibly the majority of the members, I would urge to reconsider the policy of sticking threads like these.

How would you feel if another forum you frequented had a sticky about the superiority of Cuban health system? Or, for that matter, the superiority of RER over the Métro? That is pretty much how the rest of the world feels about American politics sticky threads: they're telling us what some of us disagree with and/or what has no impact on us.

These threads do not serve to provoke discussion. Serious discussion is not going to happen in a thread started by an administrator, stickied by an administrator, and when the administrator refers to the other side as "theocrats and pacifists" (all of which would be at least somewhat reasonable on their own). Instead, what you will end up seeing (and are seeing already) is agreement from people who agree with the post, knee-jerk flame-approaching reactions from people who disagree and are willing to make it known, and silent disagreement from people who don't think arguing is worth their time.

Political discussion is great. Political statements ends up alienating half of your readers.

One of the forums I used to participate in had a "Debates and discussions" forum in addition to an Off-topic forum. It helps to keep Off-topic flame-free, and the name serves to remind the users that discussions are not shouting matches. It would also mean that threads would no longer have to be stickied.

I really do not wish to get into political debates, but I'd be unhappy to miss out on other Off-topic threads.

Just a couple of thoughts. I invite discussion. Please do not sticky this.

[Kyocera]

When the "administrator" is the "site owner" he can sticky anything he wants.

Get used to the stickies, they are there, get over it and soon enough you won't notice them, until you see something relevent there you wish to discuss, then they are just fine.

Political discussion is great. Political statements ends up alienating half of your readers.

Usership has risen significantly here over the last year or two, even with some pretty heated political discussions, don't forget this is "Off Topic", not "Certain Topic" or "Anything But Political Topic".

This should be in the suggestion box, for suggestions.

[K. Eng]

Political discussion is great. Political statements ends up alienating half of your readers.

While I agree with you in principle, but Bill does own the site and can sticky whatever he likes. If it were up to me, I wouldn't sticky the political threads, but its not up to me.

Oh well.

[GomJabbar]

Personally, I agree with K. Eng.

[bill bolton]

Serious discussion is not going to happen in a thread started by an administrator, stickied by an administrator, and when the administrator refers to the other side as "theocrats and pacifists" (all of which would be at least somewhat reasonable on their own).

None the less a robust debate is occuring, so your theory is not proven.

Cheers,

Bill B.

[qviri]

When the "administrator" is the "site owner" he can sticky anything he wants.

I did not realise the site had more than one "administrator" in addition to the "moderators". My mistake.

While I agree with you in principle, but Bill does own the site and can sticky whatever he likes.

Again, I fully recognise that. The fact that he can does not necessarily mean that it is a good idea to do so. (Though whether it is is obviously a personal opinion.)

None the less a robust debate is occuring, so your theory is not proven.

Yes, hopefully I have spoken too soon. The last part of the sheep thread and the first two days of the Tolstoy thread did not exactly inspire much confidence in me. While I will for the time being withhold my judgement on whether the debate is robust, I should keep in mind the impact of timezones the next time I am posting something like this.

[GomJabbar]

These are the facts as I see them.

1. If the purpose is to make a statement, a Sticky might be required to keep it at the top.
2. If a discussion is active, that will keep the thread at the top and a Sticky is not required.
3. If a thread is begun with the intent of bringing forth a discussion, but the discussion never really takes off, that thread will fall off the page.
4. A number of readers may hold back from taking part in a heated discussion when someone in a position of authority has made a statement in opposition to that readers stand. This would especially be true when the discussion was started by a person with perceived authority. As of this writing, no one that is not an admin or a mod has voiced a contrary opinion to the most recent thread in question. However, now that some contrary views have been expressed by mods and admins, that would tend to embolden others - maybe.

[KristianJ]

None the less a robust debate is occuring, so your theory is not proven.

Cheers,

Bill B.

Albeit one where offense is likely to be cause by broad sweeping generalisations that are unfounded and unprepared. I wouldn't have posted anything had the "theocrats and pacifists" comment not been raised, but I personally think that such a grouping of these people (I guess that since I consider myself to be a Christian I am a theocrat) is a very misguided misrepresentation, and I would invite reconsideration of whether the generalisation made was appropriate.

That said, I don't care about what is stickied, where it is stickied...it just worries me if these threads foster statements of hatred and patriotic bias that offend others.

[carbon_unit]

I tend to avoid political discussions as they draw lines, kindle emotions and cause tensions between members.
I thought we were here to discuss Thinkpads not politics. Google will help you find political forums if you want to discuss politics. There are plenty of them.

[Turbo Audi]

I don't see why a little Americana from an American forum is such a problem.

[Kyocera]

The thing is you can CHOOSE to ignore them, like you can change the channel on your TV.

There is plenty of camaraderie on this site, I truly respect peoples wrong opinions of military and political issues Everyone is entitled...bill morrow created this venue (correct me if i'm wrong bill) of off topic for any type discussions, many people got involved in the "creationism" thread which dealt with sensitive issues and I don't remember people complaining about being able to engage in that conversation. If I owned this site and you didn't like something I was doing you'd be history, deleted, blocked, firewalled out. Hence, why I don't have a site *couldn't afford it anyways *

It's amazing the things people complain about:

1. Advertising
2. The charlie chaplin w/parrot
3. Stickies
4. Moderators/Admins
5. Moving posts
6. Pictures without warning
7. Location in profiles
8. Humongous Quotes/ Nested Quotes
9. Can't Swear
10. Mail box to small
11. Site is to slow
12. Getting picked on by a mod or admin
13. Bumping post's in the Marketplace
14. No Avatars for signatures
15. Not politcally correct enough
16. Too politically correct

This is the short list

[BillMorrow]

...lots of snippage...
(I guess that since I consider myself to be a Christian I am a theocrat) is a very misguided misrepresentation, and I would invite reconsideration of whether the generalisation made was appropriate.

IMO you are only a theocrat if your intent is to force your christian view upon others, not of like mind..

[BillMorrow]

I tend to avoid political discussions as they draw lines, kindle emotions and cause tensions between members.
I thought we were here to discuss Thinkpads not politics. Google will help you find political forums if you want to discuss politics. There are plenty of them.

good point..

i hesitate to post anything too political for fear of offending someone..

but is that not an overly bland action..?
"keep your mouth shut, don't make waves"..

hmmmmmm...

[carbon_unit]

Not so much that but I guess I am more of a person who tends to focus on the job at hand. When I go to the Thinkpad forum I am there to discuss Thinkpad related topics, when I go to the Linux forums I am there to discuss Linux. If I wanted to discuss politics I would go to a political forum where people would (supposedly) know what they are talking about, not a Linux forum where I would get a bunch of second hand opinions, misinformation, etc from people who know software not politics.
I generally like to base my decisions on facts rather than opinions, but..........I guess that is just my opinion.

[tfflivemb2]

But isn't the point that it IS posted in the Off-Topic?

If we can't have any discussions that aren't related to Thinkpads in the Off-Topic conference, then what would be the point of an Off-Topic conference?

I look at it this way...there are many members here that feel the sense of a "family" here. It is good to be able to discuss things with people that you associate with quite frequently, that are separate from what we normally discuss...it adds depth to the persons that you normally chat about Thinkpads with.

[carbon_unit]

That's cool.
I was talking about my preference, YMMV.

I was told a long time ago by someone wiser than I am:
"In your business never discuss politics or religion. You are sure to alienate half of you customers. That is not good for business."
But I suppose that the forum does not count as a business. That is where my thinking went wrong.

[tomh009]

I was told a long time ago by someone wiser than I am:
"In your business never discuss politics or religion. You are sure to alienate half of you customers. That is not good for business."
But I suppose that the forum does not count as a business. That is where my thinking went wrong.

That's pretty much my philosophy, too.

[tfflivemb2]

I was told a long time ago by someone wiser than I am:
"In your business never discuss politics or religion. You are sure to alienate half of you customers. That is not good for business."
But I suppose that the forum does not count as a business. That is where my thinking went wrong.

I agree with your sentiment...which is why I almost never partake in those discussions....HOWEVER, since it is in Off-Topic...to each there own...