Location field requirement

[qviri]

From the rules forum (emphasis mine):

Please enter at least the city and/or state that is your home or current location.

From a recent thread:

OH!, and please let us know what city in the bay area is your location..

Is the specific city now required, and if so, should the rules thread be updated?

[JaneL]

Is the specific city now required, and if so, should the rules thread be updated?

Since it was the forum owner (and person who pays the bills for this forum) who made the request, consider them changed.

[qviri]

Okay. I was wondering if the request was forum-wide, or directed at a specific member for whatever reason.

[JaneL]

Actually, we've been requiring it for quite some time. Early members are grandfathered in which may be why Bill just requested it.

[BillMorrow]

some members join, pass the city and state requirement and then change their location..
when i see this i ask that they change it back..
there are many reasons for this small thing..
and there is no devious reason for this..
initially, it helps me tell spambots from real people..
it used to help keeping the singapore gang out..
it helps determine the time zone a member is in so others know when an answer might be needed..
it also shows the reason for convoluted speech by some non-english-speakers..
if buying or selling is involved it helps both sides know who is where..
there have been instances of a helpful member meeting and helping someone in person..
though this is not recommended..
your location also shows the worldwide nature of this thinkpad community and some members who are in, say tehran have helped israeli members..
and similar and more..
thus the location is requested..
i'm not going to make it a capital offense to chage your location to something generic but it strikes me a a little sneaky to change from something like pinole, california to bay area, calif...

so now you have it, more or less..

[Superego]

I don't mind the location requirement (it is kind of fun to see where everyone is from) but are there any privacy issues to consider? It's not as if you're requiring us to put up a SSN, but the world keeps getting a little smaller and one never knows what piece of personal information can be exploited.

[JaneL]

You always have the option of not joining...

Bill's forum; Bill's rules.

[basketb]

You always have the option of not joining...

Bill's forum; Bill's rules.

But once you join, wouldn't you expect that everybody abides by these rules, even the one who makes them?

Case in point, Rules of the Road state:

6. Respect the privacy of others. Do not post other's phone numbers, addresses, pictures, private messages, etc., without their express permission.

and the Forum Registration Agreement contains the following:

As a user you agree to any information you have entered above being stored in a database. While this information will not be disclosed to any third party without your consent ...

And yet,

...
i'm not going to make it a capital offense to chage your location to something generic but it strikes me a a little sneaky to change from something like pinole, california to bay area, calif...
...

insinuates that a member's home town may be Pinole, CA whereas he/she put only "Bay Area, California" in their public profile.

This is a great forum, but I still would expect that privacy concerns are handled (and not mishandled) with care.

[BillMorrow]

why is everyone a barracks lawyer these days..

i do not want the location matter to become more than it needs to be..

each member can choose an anonymous member name and when that member enters san francisco as a location how is that compromising privacy..?
last i heard the population os SF was about 750,000..

in the case under discussion by basketb a certain member used bay area when he signed up initially..
i called him on it and he finally gave in and stated his location was some town in the north, east bay..
later, he changed it back to bay area..
again, i find that to be sneaky..
and i still choose not to make an issue of it just now..
but if this thing keeps popping up and slapping me i will make an issue of it..

SO, the member in question's location has not been capriciously revealed or mis-handled..
he SHOULD re-edit it to show a city or town like most everyone else does..

and FYI requiring a location city and state or country helps me when activating new members and sorting the spambots from the real people..

i don't understand this insane paranoia about revealing a tiny bit of information on the forum..

the identity thieves will pick the low hanging fruit before they start gathering details like a city and state from this forum..

the telephone book has richer pickings than this place..

my phone numbers have been on the internet for about 10 years and no calls with heavy breathing have been received.. yet..
which is a pity as that would sure give me something more to talk about that politics and religion and the energy crisis..

so relax and stop telling ME i am divulging some members hidden location..
you attack with insufficient evidence..
only your assumption based on, well, nothing really..

its late now and i'm bushed..

[basketb]

Being concerned about privacy issues is not the same as being concerned about identity thieves (the latter is only a small part of the issue). Privacy (especially on the internet) mostly concerns each person's right to determine what information about him/her is exposed in public (see also wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_privacy ). If you don't mind your phone number being available on the internet, fine, your decision. If you require members of this forum to reveal their location, fine, your decision. If one doesn't like it, they don't need to join.

However, I think there is (or at least there should be) also a certain expectation of privacy of what info is revealed/discussed in public.

...
in the case under discussion by basketb a certain member used bay area when he signed up initially..
i called him on it and he finally gave in and stated his location was some town in the north, east bay..
later, he changed it back to bay area..
again, i find that to be sneaky..
...

And the above should not be discussed in public. There is no need for the public to know what that member did when registering and later during his/her membership. This is a matter between you (and possibly the other admins) and that member.
If a member doesn't adhere to the forum rules, it's your right to revoke his/her membership but, still, his/her privacy should be respected.

...
i don't understand this insane paranoia about revealing a tiny bit of information on the forum..
...

It's a tiny bit of info here and a tiny bit of info there and before you know it, one can google another one's whole life.

[BillMorrow]

what do you want from me..?

[KristianJ]

It's a tiny bit of info here and a tiny bit of info there and before you know it, one can google another one's whole life.

I have to agree with Bill on this - there seems to be a strange amount of paranoia in this case. Location details IMO are a great aid to this forum and I for one would not be at all concerned that somebody may be "e-stalking" me and trying to pick up hints and tidbits from every forum I frequent in order to find out where I live. I choose what I wish to disclose and if a site asks for information that I'd rather not disclose, I'll not give it, even if that means I can't use the services contained within that site.

There are a heap of variations in what different members have listed in their location field - I'd just say to let the rules thread be updated (if need be) with the current requirements and leave it at that.

[ajkula66]

basketb wrote:

It's a tiny bit of info here and a tiny bit of info there and before you know it, one can google another one's whole life.

Between here and Lenovo's forum I've got over 3000 posts under this username. Go ahead, google all you want and tell me what you've found out that I haven't posted myself...

[qviri]

I'd just say to let the rules thread be updated (if need be) with the current requirements and leave it at that.

That's what I was concerned about originally. Just have consistency between the official rules forum, registration instructions, and individual posts by moderators.

[JaneL]

For those of us who activate new users, our instructions re location are simple:

For the US, city/state is required

For the rest of the world, city/country is required

For all, a valid e-mail address that you can be reached at by Bill.

I'm not sure why that's so difficult for new or old users to understand.

[basketb]

what do you want from me..?

Not much, I guess, just a little sensitivity towards privacy concerns. (apologies if that did not come across in my earlier posts.)

[basketb]

...
I have to agree with Bill on this - there seems to be a strange amount of paranoia in this case. Location details IMO are a great aid to this forum and I for one would not be at all concerned that somebody may be "e-stalking" me and trying to pick up hints and tidbits from every forum I frequent in order to find out where I live. I choose what I wish to disclose and if a site asks for information that I'd rather not disclose, I'll not give it, even if that means I can't use the services contained within that site.
...

You hit the nail on the head when you say that you decide what information about yourself you disclose. That's what privacy is all about. You decide it and not some third party discloses it for you.

[basketb]

...
Between here and Lenovo's forum I've got over 3000 posts under this username. Go ahead, google all you want and tell me what you've found out that I haven't posted myself...

Believe me, I have no interest to google you (though many of your posts are certainly entertaining and educational). But again you made an important statement, when you said that you yourself made all this information about yourself available and not some third part for you.

[basketb]

I'd just say to let the rules thread be updated (if need be) with the current requirements and leave it at that.

That's what I was concerned about originally. Just have consistency between the official rules forum, registration instructions, and individual posts by moderators.

I second (third?) this.

[basketb]

For those of us who activate new users, our instructions re location are simple:

For the US, city/state is required

For the rest of the world, city/country is required

For all, a valid e-mail address that you can be reached at by Bill.

I'm not sure why that's so difficult for new or old users to understand.

I don't know why this is difficult to understand either.

[BillMorrow]

i should point out here that the email is for system emails and i get really tired of bounced email address notifications when an email address is bad..

i have very little interest in emailing others just for conversation's sake..

i don'k know WHY you insist on parsing EVERY word, letter or puncutation..
let it go..

AND, to finish this thread, NO ONE gets in without a city and state..
the person who generated all this useless chatter is, IMO, a stubborn (words fail me, here) and if it were not for the impression i have that he DOES contribute to YOU and others i would freeze his account (again) and demand he stop playing games with me..

i chose to not see this transgression like a traffic cop will sometimes not see you make an illegal turn or exceed the speed limit..

JUST DROP IT, please..
i am going to lock this thread and MAYBE if i really get angry that my thumbs are burning in pain form all this useless typing, i will just remove this from sight..

i'm a nice and reasonable guy so STOP screwing with me..

[BillMorrow]

what do you want from me..?

Not much, I guess, just a little sensitivity towards privacy concerns. (apologies if that did not come across in my earlier posts.)

so you are accusing me of being insensitive..?
to who..?
what about..?

give me a break..

** much historical reference and attempts at education was removed **

what is the definition of a troll.. if you don't fit you are coming close..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

i am so angry i could spit so i better stop, now..

[BillMorrow]

**SNIPPITY SNIP**

...
in the case under discussion by basketb a certain member used bay area when he signed up initially..
i called him on it and he finally gave in and stated his location was some town in the north, east bay..
later, he changed it back to bay area..
again, i find that to be sneaky..
...

And the above should not be discussed in public. There is no need for the public to know what that member did when registering and later during his/her membership. This is a matter between you (and possibly the other admins) and that member.
If a member doesn't adhere to the forum rules, it's your right to revoke his/her membership but, still, his/her privacy should be respected.

**more snippage**

ok, basketb, you made me "notice" the infraction of the rules and the sneaky way they were "infracted" (my own new word) and i have now suspended the member in question until he understands that the rules are the rules..
or he decides that this rule is too onerous to live by and gives my email to him a pocket veto..