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Reasonable price-to-quality GPU for M58p

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wujstefan
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Reasonable price-to-quality GPU for M58p

#1 Post by wujstefan » Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:54 am

Hello,

I'm not into owning / obtaining any thikcentre, but a good friend of mine do have one that he'd like to use for light-to-mid gaming. He's got E8400, 4 Gig of RAM and a nice UXGA IPS 20,1" screen. The thing is, while upgrading the CPU is not necessary for his needs IMO, and upgrading the RAM is easy there is one major question: what kind of GPU can be put in there to keep the cost low and make it work for some gaming? This guy is World of Tanks freak.

Any recommendations?
Dailies:
X201s - travel / garage
HP Elitebook 8770w (FHD IPS, SSD, Q4000M, 16Gb) - daily
Collectibles:
T43 (LED Flexview UXGA), Z60t, G41, R30, R50e, R61i
Under construction:
A31, R52p, T22, A22m, R40, T30, Z61m

thinkpadcollection
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Location: kingston, ontario, Canada

Re: Reasonable price-to-quality GPU for M58p

#2 Post by thinkpadcollection » Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:51 pm

Still have to bump to E8600 or Q9650 (highly recommended, Q9650 going price is about 60-70 CDN ebay), for PCIe 2.x slot stick to HD5870 or HD6870/HD6950 thru GTX 285, bump up PSU to 600W if compatible in ATX standard. I have a slot-powered HD5670 based on 128 bit GDDR5 512MB but that will be weak. Bump up to 8GB DDR2 (about 38-50 cdn for a 4x2GB 2Rx8 modules kit from china and they are all new, OEM, DDR2-800 micron, crucial, samsung, hynix and elpida.) Then you are looking at shaky value on a antique computer still, better get him onto HP elite 8300 CMT tower with DDR3-1600 with basic CPU and upgrade CPU later for i5-3570 and memory as well. Going rate is about 120 to 180 for a HP 8300 with basic CPU and 4GB or 8GB ready to roll, I mentioned. Ebay does have HP for desktop Z220 (not CMT) to ATX PSU standard harness mod to allow you to run high watt ATX PSUs since 8300 only come with 305W standard.

With good shopping on ebay or craiglist you should able to fetch one from 30 to 100 for GPU card.

Spend extra 25-30 and a open PCIe 1x slot, get a ethernet intel Pro/1000 PT card. This can help with TCP/IP processing offload off the limited resource especially C2D or C2 Quad, supports windows 7, 8.x and 10.

Cheers, thinkpadcollection.

wujstefan
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Re: Reasonable price-to-quality GPU for M58p

#3 Post by wujstefan » Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:34 pm

Hold on cowbboy,

This is one piece of valuable post from you, but this is a budget thing :)
I was considering extra 4 gig and a HD7770 or 7470, but not a complete station rebuilding. Not for his needs, not on this system. He's got it for $30 or so.
Dailies:
X201s - travel / garage
HP Elitebook 8770w (FHD IPS, SSD, Q4000M, 16Gb) - daily
Collectibles:
T43 (LED Flexview UXGA), Z60t, G41, R30, R50e, R61i
Under construction:
A31, R52p, T22, A22m, R40, T30, Z61m

thinkpadcollection
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Posts: 804
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2014 8:13 pm
Location: kingston, ontario, Canada

Re: Reasonable price-to-quality GPU for M58p

#4 Post by thinkpadcollection » Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:05 pm

We do happen to have HD7770 (since new) on family computer works rather well. Bit lowish end 1GB 128bit GDDR5 TDP is 80W but works rather well on low-lowish med, was on E8400 C2D with 2GB was running Rendition ram that burnt out so fetched Mushkin 2GB from another PC that memory still works then now 8GB w/ i3 then now 16GB. Currently details: i3-4160 (3.6Ghz) on H81-M with Seasonic 380W for years now, perfect for web game and Steam. Reason for this, had to upgrade to i3, 8GB on a budget, 4 years ago because this computer was slow (familys' complaint) on web games and kept the HD7770 and seasonic 380W. Then Steam console kept breaking during windows' startup forcing window restart (just too low resources except CPU & GPU and tad slow hard drive made Steam console to break.), upgraded from 8GB to Crucial 2x8GB sticks DDR3-1600 detected correctly as 16GB and 4 platter 2TB , from 500GB which fixed that from what I had on hand for now, plan to source a higher transfer rate HD later. Recently went to windows 10.

Kinda hard to find a HD7770 2GB than 1GB (largest vram is best for long term). I recommend 2GB VRAM if you can match a HD7770 level or bit better, HD7770 kept reused 2x (RX-250 series). 8000 series is rather thin on choices and better look at RX series if can find a 2GB, price is still reasonable.

That was the reason I touted HP 8300. After all it was E8400 C2D on 2GB PC then now i3 as I detailed. Besides, ebay has 4x 2GB DDR2-800 modules brand new OEM brands for less than 30 US and also from ebay (now 4 kits, micron elpida and few Crucial) , a E8600 can be had for for under 22 US from ebay. I really urge you to get Intel Pro/1000 PT 1x PCIe if your friend's has PCIe 1x slot still open. This ethernet card is how I delayed my PC from C2D Dell Optiplex 780 to HP Z220 overhaul by a year because of much needed funds.

Cheers, thinkpadcollection

kfzhu1229
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Re: Reasonable price-to-quality GPU for M58p

#5 Post by kfzhu1229 » Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:24 am

I do happen to have a NVidia GT 730 1GB GDDR5 which should be pretty balanced if you have E8400, but will be a huge bottleneck if you upgrade to Q9650, Q9550 or X3363 down the line.
It costs next to nothing and will do 4k and bluray (non-3d) playback just fine. However, you need to see if that thinkcentre supports PCIe 8x configuration as all GT 730 uses that instead of the typical 16x.
I also happen to have an AMD Radeon HD 8570 2GB GDDR3. It is similar story, but a bit slower and will be good if you are a die hard AMD fan instead of NVidia. I doubt anything that both cards can run will use more than 1GB of VRAM, but if it does the AMD card will have that advantage I guess.
As for gaming, it is again, fairly balanced with E8400, though if you want E8400 to unleash its full power, get a GTX 750 Ti 2GB or similar.
Esports titles will run perfectly if you use anything but ultra settings, though it will struggle in AAA titles
_________________________________
T23 PIII 1.13ghz 1gb W7
2xT43 14.1" 2.26 SXGA+ 2gb 1*fp W10
T530i 15.6" i7 16gb fp W10
Flexview UXGA:
A30p PIII 1.2 1gb W7 (IDTech)
T43p 2.26 2gb fp W10

wujstefan
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Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:38 am
Location: Tarnow, Poland

Re: Reasonable price-to-quality GPU for M58p

#6 Post by wujstefan » Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:12 am

Thank you, this gives out some idea.
I should mention at start that my friends' unit is a SFF and not a tower.

Will GT 730 actually fit into SFF M58p? At first glimpse it needs another adapter card, and VGA removed. How do you tell if it supports PCIe 8x?

GTX 750 Ti seems very reasonable when looking at price to value. I see it draws only ~70W at peak and this is more than reasonable. It would be good to stay at 280W power supply that is already in there, would it be enought for such configuration with Q9x50 upgrade? I guess a cheaper (way cheaper) option would be to go for E5430 instead - it seem it consumes way less power (~65W at peak), runs cooler and costs 3x less; and all that for 2,66 vs 2,83GHz. How do you think?
Dailies:
X201s - travel / garage
HP Elitebook 8770w (FHD IPS, SSD, Q4000M, 16Gb) - daily
Collectibles:
T43 (LED Flexview UXGA), Z60t, G41, R30, R50e, R61i
Under construction:
A31, R52p, T22, A22m, R40, T30, Z61m

thinkpadcollection
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Posts: 804
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2014 8:13 pm
Location: kingston, ontario, Canada

Re: Reasonable price-to-quality GPU for M58p

#7 Post by thinkpadcollection » Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:45 pm

Majority of socket 775 with PCIe computers is fixed at 16 lanes for the PCIe 16x slot and will down convert to 8x or 4x or 1x mode depending on PCIe adapter card used besides graphics cards which exist as 16x or 1x physical. If one have extra PCIe slot (typically 1x) it is linked to the southbridge chipset which in turn hooked together to the northbridge's. But it is not PCIe design interconnect between northbridge and southbridge. For lenovo thinkcentre, Dell optiplex and HP Elite and any HP business desktops they are always (P4 xxx chipsets) and Qxx or Bxx chipset which only provides available 16 lanes only for the one 16x physical PCIe slot.

Was not commented on what type of the computer's form factor? Is it tower (most standard video cards can be fitted except Optiplex towers only can fit 1 slot wide with 7" long video card) or desktop and SFF form factor which is always low profile cards typically. The majority of these business computers typically have a problem is most usually are 225W to 305W range. HD7770 needs 80W which will work but barely but better on 305W.

Just for your information on factor form chassis used by business line computers from OEM makers:
The guy who commented on GTX 750 is recommended over the GTX 730 which is way too weak and HD7770 is bit lot more better. Problem is GTX 750 still most expensive due to very desirable design; low watts, powerful and available in low profile than anything else can offer than anything that can come close. Next choice is HD7570 and HD7750 in low profile, 1 slot wide, also GTX 750.
This GTX 740/750 (my comment added on 750) comment was cited from a forum on dell about Optiplex 780 tower with restrictions on fitting particular GPU physical design.

http://en.community.dell.com/support-fo ... t/19629045

This was one of my main reasons for retiring my optiplex 780 tower and go for Z220 computer instead. The HP Z220 tower factor is same as Elite 8200 sandybridge and 8300 Ivy bridge and using SFF power harness mod (just hook it inline with ATX) for use of standard ATX in HP towers). These towers can take standard 2 slot cards.

By the way, HD7770 is always 2 slot cards.

Cheers, thinkpadcollection.

kfzhu1229
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Re: Reasonable price-to-quality GPU for M58p

#8 Post by kfzhu1229 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:52 pm

thinkpadcollection wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:45 pm
Majority of socket 775 with PCIe computers is fixed at 16 lanes for the PCIe 16x slot and will down convert to 8x or 4x or 1x mode depending on PCIe adapter card used besides graphics cards which exist as 16x or 1x physical. If one have extra PCIe slot (typically 1x) it is linked to the southbridge chipset which in turn hooked together to the northbridge's. But it is not PCIe design interconnect between northbridge and southbridge. For lenovo thinkcentre, Dell optiplex and HP Elite and any HP business desktops they are always (P4 xxx chipsets) and Qxx or Bxx chipset which only provides available 16 lanes only for the one 16x physical PCIe slot.
That is not the case for my OptiPlex 755 and already learnt a money lesson on it.
https://imgur.com/a/Hkowa
If you go earlier for something like OptiPlex GX620, which has a PCIe 1.0 x16 slot, but if you insert a x8 card like my GT 730 into that slot it will NOT boot. So you have to cut off the end on the x1 slot and put it there instead.
Look out for those hiccups before buying cards or just buy something like a GTX 750/1050/Ti which has native x16 support anyways.
_________________________________
T23 PIII 1.13ghz 1gb W7
2xT43 14.1" 2.26 SXGA+ 2gb 1*fp W10
T530i 15.6" i7 16gb fp W10
Flexview UXGA:
A30p PIII 1.2 1gb W7 (IDTech)
T43p 2.26 2gb fp W10

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