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Thinkpad Fan Noise Problem: Light at the End of the Tunnel

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yg2005
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#181 Post by yg2005 » Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:48 am

Hi, Shimodax , it is a wonderful program, I love it very much. Thanks.
However, I found that when some programs runs which occupied 100% cpu resource could cause FanControl stop working temporarily. Seting the priority of fancontrol to be "high" or "above normal" could solve the problem, so for ensuring fancontrol works at any situation, I recommended to have "High" as default priority.

gzt036
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Re: Yay. Now if only someone could fix the fan pulse issue

#182 Post by gzt036 » Fri Dec 02, 2005 1:37 pm

kenr wrote:
ffalcon2 wrote: Now if only someone could figure out how to stop the fan from pulsing every 5 seconds, my T43 would finally be useable in a quiet room ...
Once I use the fan control tool and stop using the BIOS fan control, my fan pulsing goes away. It only shows up if I switch back to BIOS control.
Are you sure? Mine is still the same.

I guess if the fan stops pusling I probably would be comfortable with level 1, I think this is the next task we need to solve since we can't stop fan entirely.

ruthlessbrad
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Re: Yay. Now if only someone could fix the fan pulse issue

#183 Post by ruthlessbrad » Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:01 pm

gzt036 wrote: I guess if the fan stops pusling I probably would be comfortable with level 1, I think this is the next task we need to solve since we can't stop fan entirely.
There is already a solution over at ThinkWiki... it just needs to be implemented:
Apparently the pulsing fan noise experienced by some users can be cured by repeatedly running 2-4 seconds of manual control followed by 0.5-1 seconds of disengaged mode. The pulse occurs when the the embedded controller computes the fan speed and adjusts the fan voltage adaptively every few seconds (~4.8sec for the ThinkPad T43); the aforementioned mode switching doesn't give it a chance to do so. One of the ACPI fan control scripts implements this solution.
http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Patch_for ... _fan_speed
T43 2668-75U (2GHz, 1GB, 60GB 7200RPM, 14.1" SXGA+, ATI x300, TP 802.11abg, Bluetooth, FP Reader, CD-RW/DVD-ROM, 6 Cell, Quiet Fan)

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Re: please, explain me as if i were 6

#184 Post by Shimodax » Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:55 pm

ferganer wrote:Dear Shimodax,

Thanks for the reply. I can guess from the postings that you did a great job here. The problem is that I am not a programmer and didn't quite get how your program works. Just a few questions:

1. How to launch it?
2. Will it work with my T43 2686-N9U?
3. If it fails to work, how will I know?
4. Most important, does this program allow me manually set the fan speed, i.e. do I have to adjust it all the time, or after it's launched, no adjustments are necessary?
5. What are the "side effects"? I mean, is the pulsating problem really worth taking the risks?
Weeelll...

1) See Readme (installation, first test "compatibility")

2) Most likely yes (readme: tested models)

3) Readme: Test "Compatibility". Error messages in the program. Sensors reporting excess heat. Smoke curling up from between the keys. (The latter won't happen easily and the compatibility test as described in the readme is quite safe).

4) It has a manual and a smart level which automatically adjusts the fan depending on user set temperatures (see references to fancontrol.ini in the readme and the comments inside the fancontrol.ini itself).

5) This is entirely a personal decision and it mainly depends on how annoying the fan is to you (btw, it does not cure the pulsing fan problem).



Markus
T43 2668-97G (2GHz, 512MB, 80GB, 15" SXGA)

Annoyed by fan noise? Check out the TP 43 Fan Control thread
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=17715

ferganer
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Re: please, explain me as if i were 6

#185 Post by ferganer » Fri Dec 02, 2005 6:49 pm

Thanks again Markus,

Does anybody know if there is anything around that cures the pulsing fan problem?



[/quote]

Weeelll...
1) See Readme (installation, first test "compatibility")
2) Most likely yes (readme: tested models)
3) Readme: Test "Compatibility". Error messages in the program. Sensors reporting excess heat. Smoke curling up from between the keys. (The latter won't happen easily and the compatibility test as described in the readme is quite safe).
4) It has a manual and a smart level which automatically adjusts the fan depending on user set temperatures (see references to fancontrol.ini in the readme and the comments inside the fancontrol.ini itself).
5) This is entirely a personal decision and it mainly depends on how annoying the fan is to you (btw, it does not cure the pulsing fan problem).



Markus[/quote]

Thinkerer
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Re: please, explain me as if i were 6

#186 Post by Thinkerer » Fri Dec 02, 2005 7:27 pm

Shimodax wrote:Smoke curling up from between the keys.
You probably didn't mean this seriously, but in case anyone takes it otherwise:

There will never be smoke curling up from between the keys, since the keyboard is airtight and spill-proof. The first physical indication of catastrophic failure is likely to be a funny smell from the fan vent.

Navck
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#187 Post by Navck » Fri Dec 02, 2005 7:43 pm

Works on my 2687DDU. Problem being Centrino Hardware Control doesn't let go of the sensors. And the program takes 5 seconds to respond (Click on it, wait 5 seconds, display updates to show Ichanged the fanspeed. Etc)

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#188 Post by Thinkerer » Fri Dec 02, 2005 8:49 pm

duffy wrote:I have a comment regarding the ignoring sensors issue. Some of the sensors can be ignored in regards to the fan operation. Case in point the battery temp sensors. The sensors are integrated into the battery packs so they are not indicative of the internal temp of the computer. Since the temps are internal to the battery itself the fan can not cool the batteries if they were to heat up. So it would be possible to erroneously cycle the cooling fan to cool a battery pack that is not capable of being cooled with the fan. The temp sensors are there so the machine can monitor the battery temps and if implemented regulate the charge to control the battery temps.
The sensor at the front left of the battery is thermally coupled to the system's internals, albeit loosely. With full CPU, load after stabilization, fan level 2 vs. 7 makes a 2 degree difference in that sensor on my T43. There'd probably be a bigger difference if I was also charging the battery (the power circuitry, monitored by sensor 0xC2, is to close to the left of the battery). So it does make sense to take it into account., with appropriate thresholds.

kw
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Location: Hofheim/Germany

#189 Post by kw » Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:27 am

@Shimodax:

Two more assessments:

1. with the the default setting "128" (bios mode) on the highest level the fan lowers confronted to value 7 when it reaches maximum temperature. Last week I still have had a cpu temperature about 90°C (194°F) and so I got in touch with the Lenovo support. They said I should be be unconcerned about it, everything's okay. With your tool and level 7 it makes a change to the better: 79°C (174°F). ;)

2. the fan won't fall on a lower level although the congruent temperature for this limit is reached
  1. on smart-mode levels. My actual solution: make a manually switch from smart- to bios-mode (and back) it works again.
  2. the change from bios- to smart-mode. Actual solution: so I set maximum value to "7" there is no alternation with it.
Updated yesterday: BIOS 1.24 /ECP 1.04

greets & thx
kw
Lenovo T400 (6474-AH5): P8600|4GB RAM|160GB HD|14" WXGA+ LED|Combo-LW|WLAN|BT|FP|W7 Ultimate 64
IBM T43 (2668-92G): Pentium-M 760 | 2GB RAM | 7K100 HD | 15" SXGA+ FlexView | ATI X300 | DVD-Multiburner Plus | WLAN a/b/g | Bluetooth

gzt036
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#190 Post by gzt036 » Sun Dec 04, 2005 12:42 am

kw wrote:@
1. with the the default setting "128" (bios mode) on the highest level the fan lowers confronted to value 7 when it reaches maximum temperature. Last week I still have had a cpu temperature about 90°C (194°F) and so I got in touch with the Lenovo support. They said I should be be unconcerned about it, everything's okay. With your tool and level 7 it makes a change to the better: 79°C (174°F). ;)
If 90C is OK by their standard I won't be worried about my 55C fan on threshold.

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#191 Post by vpn-user » Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:22 am

After testing a few days, I am afraid I can' t use this program.

Here is why:

I experience _BAD LAGS_ while playing games when temperature is above 70°C. The program also shows a lot of "can' t read" messages while playing I think that' s the cause of the lags. Also while playing, the fan fluctuates very strange.

Using the possibility to switch to BIOS-Controlled above lets say 65°C is no solution because the program does not switch back to SMART-Controlled when temperature is lower again.

There is something weird that happens when temperature is above 70°C, maybe some "secondary protocol" of the Embedded Controller?
X300 (6478-15G) with 3GB of RAM and builtin 3G/UMTS, running Vista Business x86-32

NeoteriX
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#192 Post by NeoteriX » Sun Dec 04, 2005 8:04 am

Great program Markus, two possible suggestions--

1) A lot of the programs I use that minimize to the system tray use the "X" button to minimize to the tray (AIM, PeerGuardian, Azereus, NHC). You might want to consider that, or make it a configurable option--I know I've accidentally closed the fancontrol thinking I was minimizing it :)

2) This might be more work, but it'd be fantastic to see some kind of realtime graph of the various temp sensors and fan speed to more easily track trends and changes in the status of the ThinkPad.

Otherwise, great work.

jhonyl
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#193 Post by jhonyl » Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:43 am

First, thanks Shimodax :)

Second, two problems/bugs version 015
1. Program require administrator privileged account to run it.
2. Program seem to close by itself after a while.
3. XC0, XC1, and XC2 = 0 on my laptop.

Third a few questions
1. I ran the fancontrol program with NHC, and got the can't read message, though the temp reading in the window still kept on changing, so I am not sure, what can't it read?

2. Does the stuff you read and write to the controller (or where ever you read and write to ) has also the NHC setting of frequency and voltage? (What I am getting at, is if the NHC functionality of undervolting could be incorporated into your software, by the means that you used like the WinIO?)

3. Can the controller of the TrackPoint be accessed by the means of that WinIO? (The TrackPoint has an annoying "feature" that I want to try to fix, maybe it is possible if I could get to "speak" with its controller)
T42 2378FVU Pentium M 735(1.7Ghz), 768MB, 14.1" SXGA+, 40GB, ATI Mobility Radeon 9600

gzt036
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#194 Post by gzt036 » Sun Dec 04, 2005 10:50 am

hi jhonyl,

Since you are using T42 1.7GHz, could you please share your temp. reading of FC under normal usage? also, including room temp. will provide more information. Thanks.

GeorgeP
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#195 Post by GeorgeP » Sun Dec 04, 2005 12:01 pm

Shimodax,

Great program!! Many thanks for your work on this!

I've been running for two days on a T43, 2687-DDU. It works really well...one observation though: Occasionally, maybe twice a day, I get a message in the log indicating COULD NOT SET FAN STATE. The program continues to operate fine after the message is logged, so it doesn't seem like a big deal.

fyi, I am running this with NHC, although I have NHC's temp monitoring turned off.

G

Paul Unger
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#196 Post by Paul Unger » Sun Dec 04, 2005 1:06 pm

I finally got the courage--after reading all the disclaimers!--to give this thing a try. I'm in the Solomon Islands, so controlling temperature is quite a concern! I have a T42 2373-3UU (1.7GHz, 1GB RAM, 40GB 5400RPM HD, SXGA+) and "Fan Control" ran just fine. Here are some numbers:

CPU 41C
APS 46C
X7A 35C
GPU 46C
BAT 33C
BAT 31C
XC0 0C
XC1 0C
XC2 0C

I say it "ran fine" but not without issues . . . First of all, I disabled CHC (running 'dynamic switching' at .700V@6x/1.020V@17x). Then I ran "Manual" mode for a while, checking out each setting and comparing fan RPM: 1/2 were close enough to be called the same; ditto 3/4/5; and ditto ditto 6/7. I then switched to "Smart" mode. No "fried eggs" :) But with the 'factory' settings my computer started getting warmer than before running "Fan Control". I made some changes in the .ini file--changed/added some levels (Level=0 35, Level=1 40, Level=2 45, Level=3 50)--and it still stayed warmer than before.

I noted above that I had disabled CHC. I tried enabling it to run concurrently with FC, but got consitent (and frequent) warnings about "Can't read status". Just as advertised, I guess . . . Finally, I switched back to "BIOS" mode, shut down FC, left CHC running, and my temps dropped back to "normal". What's "normal"? Well, on my machine (with CHC running) CPU is around 39C and HD is usually a few degrees warmer at 42C. Can't complain about that . . .

So in the final analysis, I think I'll continue running CHC until(?) CHC and FC don't fight! But I can't complain about this program! I'm thrilled that you built this thing, Shimodax! Amazed that the Thinkpad community has contributed so much to its development so quickly! Things like this help to renew one's hope in the human race Wink I attribute I8kfangui--a fan control utility for the Dell Inspiron family--with saving my Dell I8000, so I'll keep watching this thread for further developments. Thanks for all your work,

Paul

GeorgeP
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#197 Post by GeorgeP » Sun Dec 04, 2005 1:50 pm

@Paul: you may have noted from this thread that turning off the temp monitoring in CHC enables the two programs to play much better together.

Also, I don't think Shimodax's program is intended to lower your temps, instead I think it is intended to reduce fan noise (typically by accepting the tradeoff of a couple more degrees of temp in return for less fan noise ). That said, if your objective is to make your machine run cooler, your ini settings look to be off, given what your "normal" temperatures are.

G

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#198 Post by Shimodax » Sun Dec 04, 2005 4:41 pm

Hi All,

here are some comments to what has been posted recently.

Can't read: The program reads the temperature cyclically (every 5 S. by default). A "can't read" means that one of those did not succeed (brought back questionable results) so the cycle is skipped. Occasionally this isn't much of a problem (e.g. if it manages to read on the next few cycles). V0.15 has an option that will close the program when 10 consecutive (ie 50 Seconds) read attempts fail.

Can't change value: This is the oppsite of the reading error. When making changes to the fan state FC reads out the result to make sure it is as expected. If it fails you'll get an error message and three beep and then it will try again on the next cycle.

Lags: I have not encountered them (at least did not noice, but I hardly ever play). Dunno what happens over 70°C, maybe it just means that the game is so CPU intense (running it up to 70°C) that you'll notice the stuff that FC is doing.

Smart->BIOS: There'll be a 0.16 soon which is able to switch back from BIOS.

Close [X] button: Makes sense ... I'll think about making that an option (our regular software always has an option for that, but these programs also have a menu bar where you can close it from the File menu).

Graphs: I don't want to do this, but on the German forum is currently a guy who said he'd like to contribute some code. Maybe he will do something along the way. Besides that, if you look at the program folder there will be a fancontrol.log with every fan change the program made and the associated temperatures.

Admin: Nothing to be done to prevent that as far as I know. It's a WinIO thing. FC needs a driver to be able to write to the IO port and needs to temporarily install WinIO for that. And only Admins can do that (or maybe the user policy on a machine can be changed that a non admin will also be able to install a driver).

T42: The C0-C4 sensors may be machine dependent and specific to the T43. I've seen them missing on a T23 also.


Markus
T43 2668-97G (2GHz, 512MB, 80GB, 15" SXGA)

Annoyed by fan noise? Check out the TP 43 Fan Control thread
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=17715

jhonyl
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#199 Post by jhonyl » Sun Dec 04, 2005 5:11 pm

Hi Shimodax,

About the admin & WinIO: In the latest version of WinIO they added the possibilitity to install it through a method call

Code: Select all

 bool _stdcall InstallWinIoDriver(
   PSTR pszWinIoDriverPath,      
   bool IsDemandLoaded           
);          

Here is what the help file has about it:
Using WinIo from a non-administrative account
WinIo can now be used from non-administrative accounts under Windows NT/2000/XP. In order to support this configuration, the WinIo driver (winio.sys) must be first installed on the system from an administrative account using the InstallWinIoDriver function, which is provided by the library. Following installation, the driver will load automatically whenever Windows starts. An application will then be able to use the library's functions to access I/O ports and physical memory.

You should take the following steps in order to use WinIo from a non-administrative account:

Place winio.dll, winio.vxd and winio.sys in the directory where your application resides.
Log on as an administrator.
Call InstallWinIoDriver with the first parameter set to the path of the winio.sys file (e.g. c:\myapp\winio.sys).
Reboot the system.
Log on as a regular user.
You should now be able to use WinIo in the same way as when using the library from an administrative account.
When WinIo is no longer required, call RemoveWinIoDriver to remove the WinIo driver from the system. This must be performed from an administrative account.
I suggest to put a button or menu item that when pressed calls that method. There is also a remove method, for which I also suggest a button, or menu item.
Last edited by jhonyl on Sun Dec 04, 2005 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
T42 2378FVU Pentium M 735(1.7Ghz), 768MB, 14.1" SXGA+, 40GB, ATI Mobility Radeon 9600

Shimodax
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#200 Post by Shimodax » Sun Dec 04, 2005 5:22 pm

New version.

See README.TXT there for changes

Current Version (download the "Windows Binaries" archive):
https://sourceforge.net/project/showfil ... _id=153962

Previous Version: http://www.emtec.com/zzstuff/tpfancontrol_v015.zip
Previous Version: http://www.emtec.com/zzstuff/tpfancontrol_v014.zip

Source Code (look for the "Source" archives [use "View all project files"]) here:
https://sourceforge.net/project/showfil ... _id=153962
(MS Visual Studio 6.0 project)


As always:

README.TXT updated in 2nd post of this thread (version changes, tested models, some adjustments etc.)

Please read the README.TXT before running the program for the first time. This is a bare bones tools with no bells or whistles (you'll need to modify the ini file to be able to access the function to turn chang the fan).

Also see the links section on the readme.txt for tech background.

If you want to discuss temperature settings, sensor locations etc. please use this thread: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=17733

Questions, suggestions, and reports of successful tests on various untested models (see readme) should be posted here.

Enjoy


Markus
T43 2668-97G (2GHz, 512MB, 80GB, 15" SXGA)

Annoyed by fan noise? Check out the TP 43 Fan Control thread
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=17715

Gustavo
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#201 Post by Gustavo » Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:09 pm

Hi all

Great Tool! ahh silence at last!!
Works flawlessy on my T43

Great job man.......
Driving it in smart mode.

_______________________________________
T43 (2668-97U) , P M760(2.0Ghz), 1.5GB ram, 80GB HD(5400rpm)

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#202 Post by vpn-user » Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:15 pm

Downloading that file results in a 0.15 EXE! The readme still says 0.16...
X300 (6478-15G) with 3GB of RAM and builtin 3G/UMTS, running Vista Business x86-32

Shimodax
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#203 Post by Shimodax » Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:25 pm

Uhh, sorry ... please download again!

https://sourceforge.net/project/showfil ... _id=153962



Markus
T43 2668-97G (2GHz, 512MB, 80GB, 15" SXGA)

Annoyed by fan noise? Check out the TP 43 Fan Control thread
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=17715

NeoteriX
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Location: Brighton, MA

#204 Post by NeoteriX » Sun Dec 04, 2005 7:13 pm

Great work Markus -- I don't there's anywhere else that has program suggestions that are tuned around in 24 hours on something you don't even pay for :)

Speaking of which, if you have a Paypal account or something, I wouldn't mind chipping a little scratch your way so that you can get a couple beers or something. Your dedicastion have been pretty phenomenal.

mg
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Location: Europe

Embedded Controller Internals

#205 Post by mg » Sun Dec 04, 2005 8:21 pm

In case anybody wants to look into the embedded controller, on a T43/p after updating the firmware to version 1.04, use e.g.
  1. vfd o c:\drivers\1yhj04us\1yhj04us.img /p
  2. s2bin -b128 a:\$0197000.fl2 ec.bin
  3. vfd u
  4. vfd r
With the FDT you can also do what s2bin does (*.mot to *.bin and back) plus patch a firmware image on the byte level.
Last edited by mg on Tue Dec 06, 2005 7:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.

valentin
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Why doesen't the Shimodax prog work?

#206 Post by valentin » Sun Dec 04, 2005 8:59 pm

Hi,

I just bought a T43p (2668H2G, Bios ver. 1,23) and of course I don't like the noise. Have downloaded the Shimodax-prog. Great that somebody makes a prog like this. Well, I tried to install it as the readme-file tells (active=1). No error-messages appear. The first that happens when I run the exe-file is that the cute T shows up grey in the systray. Clicking on that opens the prog, but the colums for "fan control" and "temperatures" are always empty.

I can swich between the modes (Bios, smart, manual), but nothing happens if I for instance set manual to zero.

Can anybody tell me what's not happening?

Valentin

NeoteriX
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#207 Post by NeoteriX » Sun Dec 04, 2005 10:20 pm

This might occur if you're using Notebook Hardware Control (or any other program pulling sensor reading) and have not yet disabled the temperature readings. Try either disabling that feature in NHC, or better, closing it completely, to at least see if it'll work or not.

kw
Posts: 23
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Location: Hofheim/Germany

#208 Post by kw » Sun Dec 04, 2005 10:31 pm

@Shimodax: finally it's worthy to say: your tool is superb. I kicked off the Energy-Manager and everything's works fine just with fantool and windows-standards (I'm no fan of voltage-tuning but that's personally).

greets
kw
Lenovo T400 (6474-AH5): P8600|4GB RAM|160GB HD|14" WXGA+ LED|Combo-LW|WLAN|BT|FP|W7 Ultimate 64
IBM T43 (2668-92G): Pentium-M 760 | 2GB RAM | 7K100 HD | 15" SXGA+ FlexView | ATI X300 | DVD-Multiburner Plus | WLAN a/b/g | Bluetooth

GeorgeP
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Re: Why doesen't the Shimodax prog work?

#209 Post by GeorgeP » Sun Dec 04, 2005 10:53 pm

valentin wrote:Clicking on that opens the prog, but the colums for "fan control" and "temperatures" are always empty.
I'm getting the same thing with V0.16, but it worked fine with V0.15???

G

Jmmmmm
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Re: Why doesen't the Shimodax prog work?

#210 Post by Jmmmmm » Sun Dec 04, 2005 11:35 pm

GeorgeP wrote:
valentin wrote:Clicking on that opens the prog, but the colums for "fan control" and "temperatures" are always empty.
I'm getting the same thing with V0.16, but it worked fine with V0.15???

G
Did you try setting it to 2 (open in smart mode)? I think mine did that also, but works fine once I set it to 2 in the ini file.

For those of you who still want to underclock, I'm using RMClock to undervolt, and it doesn't interfere with FC. It's not as fancy as nhc/chc, but it undervolts and you can use it with FC.
T43 - 75U - 2.0ghz : 14.1" SXGA

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