It's official...the T43 is much louder than the T42

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bigskydream · #1 Post by **bigskydream** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:48 pm

I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but I just wanted to post this to help others struggling with the T43 vs. T42 dilema. After spending hours on this board trying to decide if I should go with the T43 or T42, I decided to order both. After working on both of them for a few hours, I can confirm that the T43 is indeed much louder. And that was even a 15" T43, so don't get your hopes up that the 15" is quieter.

Needless to say, the T43 is going back ASAP. IMHO, T42 is the best notebook ever. Get it new while you still can.

leegaard · #2 Post by **leegaard** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:55 pm

Well .. I have ended up with the same conclusions. Mostly because of the iinfamous 2010 error that even if its bypassable by biosupgrade would irritate my eyes everytime on startup ..

But again ... Its different what people end up in their priorities ..

#3 Post by **jdhurst** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:58 pm

The noise apparently hits people different ways. I had (two weeks) my IBM Desktop running on my desk, my T41 Laptop running on the desk as well. Now turn the chair around on the spot, and two T43's running on the kitchen table. Four computers running. The overall noise level was very low - any noise at all (tap running, TV set running in the other room, person talking, car passing outside) was noticeably louder that the sum of the four computers running.

Individually, it seemed to me that the T43 was as quiet as my personal T41.

... JD Hurst

Rose · #4 Post by **Rose** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:05 pm

bigskydream wrote:I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but I just wanted to post this to help others struggling with the T43 vs. T42 dilema. After spending hours on this board trying to decide if I should go with the T43 or T42, I decided to order both. After working on both of them for a few hours, I can confirm that the T43 is indeed much louder. And that was even a 15" T43, so don't get your hopes up that the 15" is quieter.

Needless to say, the T43 is going back ASAP. IMHO, T42 is the best notebook ever. Get it new while you still can.

same here.
My T41p was the ultimate machine. i was so freakn pleased with it that i almost died when i lost it. I would almost trade my T43p right of for a T41p.

Main satisfaction of my t41p was that i could have it in my bed and sleep with it without beeing disturbed. Cooling when fan was on at its lowest level was quiteter than the seagate momentus 5400.2 100 gb itself, and that one is quiet. Also it never pulsated so it was really convenient to have inbed.
With the T43p (very late modell) this is simply inpossible. Lowest level is above 3000 rpm and the fanengine exposes more sound than the airblowing itself.

Domain · #5 Post by **Domain** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 6:13 pm

I have to say the T43's fans do not bother me. Off or on, I can't tell a huge difference. Even at level 7 it's pretty quiet.

Rose · #6 Post by **Rose** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 6:17 pm

Domain wrote:I have to say the T43's fans do not bother me. Off or on, I can't tell a huge difference. Even at level 7 it's pretty quiet.

but you dont have it in bed with your wife next to you, do you?

christopher_wolf · #7 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 6:57 pm

Well; I guess I have to say, again, that my T43 has been on for one hour right now on battery and I have yet to hear the fan come on (Note: not a level of noise, RPM, etc). There is also a T42 being used for a presentation, it is quiet as well, it has also kept its fan off for an hour. Really, one has to realize that most of the fan noise is a user-subective perception; it isn't a quantitative engineering issue unless you measure the dB level, gain, and range of frequency produced by fan opertation (also, a distinction must be made between constant and intermittent operation)...Plus, the human ear is sensitive to both dB and frequnecy, so you would have to measure that as well. Get me that kind of info and compare it to a T42 with a significant user base, preferably a double blind study; after that, show me a significant difference (>=95% Certainty or p<0.05); then one could scientifically say there is a significant difference *and* it manifests itself as a physiological stimulus to the user. Until all those conditions are satisfied, I don't think one can say that it is "Official" that you get more fan noise.

Rose · #8 Post by **Rose** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:19 pm

christopher_wolf wrote:Well; I guess I have to say, again, that my T43 has been on for one hour right now on battery and I have yet to hear the fan come on (Note: not a level of noise, RPM, etc). There is also a T42 being used for a presentation, it is quiet as well, it has also kept its fan off for an hour. Really, one has to realize that most of the fan noise is a user-subective perception; it isn't a quantitative engineering issue unless you measure the dB level, gain, and range of frequency produced by fan opertation (also, a distinction must be made between constant and intermittent operation)...Plus, the human ear is sensitive to both dB and frequnecy, so you would have to measure that as well. Get me that kind of info and compare it to a T42 with a significant user base, preferably a double blind study; after that, show me a significant difference (>=95% Certainty or p<0.05); then one could scientifically say there is a significant difference *and* it manifests itself as a physiological stimulus to the user. Until all those conditions are satisfied, I don't think one can say that it is "Official" that you get more fan noise.

I dont really agree with you that noise is a user-subjective perception. I mean, either we use our computers in different environments (with surrounding/white noice), there really is differences in db or there simply is something wrong with the individuals hearing. Then there may be users that arent as disturbed by the sound as others, but still they should hear a difference or there is something wrong with their hearing.

Also its no newsflash that a constant sound is less noticeable than an irregular sound. Constant fan-noise simply is less noticeable than switching or pulsating fan-noice.

christopher_wolf · #9 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:35 pm

Well? For the most part, it is. Depending on your environment, mood, etc; the same goes for dead pixels. As an example, with dead pixels, your mood would play a significant role in determining how much it "Annoys" you; what color is it? where is it placed on the screen. That means that one LCD can have a given dead pixel, say bright red always-on, and not bother you at all while the same screen with the dead pixel moved slightly towards the center would bug the heck out of many computer users as one could well imagine. The same goes for fan noise. Different machines also perform differently; I have heard a T42p that is always louder than my T43. Even the T43s differ amongst each other when it comes to fan noise.

Additionally, the T43 isn't the only Thinkpad that can manifest a fan noise issue noticable by the user. The Fan Control Utility has been tested, successfully I might add, on a variety of Thinkpads; including the T4X Series, the X4X Series including the tablet, the R Series, and even the Z Series. Not just the T43. That would seem to suggest that this is a more widespread issue that is dependant on the situation. New/Old system, Ambient Temperature, Dust buildup in system components, etc. as well as being subject to user expectations/expereinces.

Domain · #10 Post by **Domain** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 8:47 pm

Rose wrote:
Domain wrote:I have to say the T43's fans do not bother me. Off or on, I can't tell a huge difference. Even at level 7 it's pretty quiet.
but you dont have it in bed with your wife next to you, do you?

No, but if I had my wife next to me, I'd rather be talking to her than on my laptop!

Trip · #11 Post by **Trip** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:50 am

christopher_wolf wrote:Well; I guess I have to say, again, that my T43 has been on for one hour right now on battery and I have yet to hear the fan come on (Note: not a level of noise, RPM, etc). There is also a T42 being used for a presentation, it is quiet as well, it has also kept its fan off for an hour. Really, one has to realize that most of the fan noise is a user-subective perception; it isn't a quantitative engineering issue unless you measure the dB level, gain, and range of frequency produced by fan opertation (also, a distinction must be made between constant and intermittent operation)...Plus, the human ear is sensitive to both dB and frequnecy, so you would have to measure that as well. Get me that kind of info and compare it to a T42 with a significant user base, preferably a double blind study; after that, show me a significant difference (>=95% Certainty or p<0.05); then one could scientifically say there is a significant difference *and* it manifests itself as a physiological stimulus to the user. Until all those conditions are satisfied, I don't think one can say that it is "Official" that you get more fan noise.

If I ever find myself in California, I'm stealing your T43.

Personally, from what I remember of the T42 I had, I wouldn't have said that the fan was any quieter than the fan on my T43, but it definitely ran less often. That was nice.

Cmdr.Keen · #12 Post by **Cmdr.Keen** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 2:10 am

christopher_wolf wrote:Well; I guess I have to say, again, that my T43 has been on for one hour right now on battery and I have yet to hear the fan come on (Note: not a level of noise, RPM, etc)...

Mine too. I only have a T43 and nothing else to compare it to (other than my desktop, which is definitely louder that my laptop) and I've now been on battery for about 50 minutes - the fan hasn't kicked in that I can recall; MobileMeter shows the temperature at 38 degrees celsius. Granted I'm only accessing webmail and doing some general surfing, but so far it hasn't been an annoyance even while gaming.

I'm quite happy with my machine.

ddutta · #13 Post by **ddutta** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 2:15 am

My T42 is as loud (if not louder) than my recent CTO T43. The T43 temperatures are also lower by 5 deg C.

Aroc · #14 Post by **Aroc** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 4:02 pm

Rose wrote:but you dont have it in bed with your wife next to you, do you?

My wife likes to sleep with white noise as she has a small fan next to her side of the bed running 365. Since I've yet to find even a P4 notebook with full fans/HDD/FDD/DVD spinning that is louder than the fan she has, I think I'm OK. And yes, I use my various notebooks all of the time in the same bad as her - whether she is sleeping or awake. In fact,she finds these threads a little humorous.

So in my case, she would actually prefer a loud T43.

YMMV

lophiomys · #15 Post by **lophiomys** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:10 am

@bigskydream:

Would it possible for you, to produce a high-quality sound recording
of the two different T4x models?
And publish it on the web?

... then it would really be public and "official".

You would need a:
good micro
good soundcard (Audigy)
reference recording of the "silence" in your environment
good speakers
and possibly a lossless audio compression (e.g. Monkey's audio *.ape)

Lophiomys

Conmee · #16 Post by **Conmee** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:25 pm

I've worked with EDS and GM on their evaluations for using the T Series, p variety for running UniGraphics for CAD work, and by far the loudest, most oft-running fan is on the T43p models. GM was quite happy with the T41p and T42p, but they wanted the T43p for the additional graphics muscle... the problem is that on the 14" systems, there is simply less room in the chassis to cool the components, mainly the ATI GPU, so the fan stays on longer, even during normal operation, or using adaptive power settings and Powerplay. Even the 15" systems exhibit the running fan, and occasionally a "pulse" which was notorious on some of the T40p models (I know, I had one, which is what originally brought me to the old forums here a few years ago).

At any rate, the fan problem is more acute with the FireGL GPU, simply because of the greater heat output, although many folks with the X300 also have the fan noise problem. I think IBM/Lenovo err on the conservative side, and have the fan running nearly continuously, just to keep temp down and by increasing the life of the CPU/GPU (or conversely, by reducing the chance of a hardware failure due to heat damage), also is a way to manage warranty costs. With fewer heat damage-related failures, the less warranty costs. And the fewer failures, the higher the customer satisfaction (although folks in this thread might argue that sat is going way down because of the noise).

I've got my T43p 14" running a Vista CTP build from December right now, and the OS runs beautifully with 1GB RAM, 2.26GHz CPU. But I can hear the GPU "crackle" or "buzz" as I move windows around and stress the 3D capabilities. My T42p 14" on the other hand, with 1.8GHz CPU (see signature for config) and 2GB RAM, does equally well, but without hearing any weird noises from the GPU or motherboard, and without the fan running as loud. In fact, the T42p fan is always on, for the most part, but must have an RPM setting low enough because it sounds more like a light, gentle "ssssshhh" lol and I can feel hot air gently blowing out the side. The T43p sounds like a small electric motor running, with an occasional "pulse" every 3-5 seconds, unless it really gets hot, in which case, it sounds like a small fan in a desktop.

Some folks may not care or hear the fan to the degree most do. I have many friends who work in server rooms and they have perpetual buzzing/white noise in their ears from being around servers, drives, fans, AC systems all day. To them, the T43p is quiet. For folks that work in more mundane surroundings and like to do some work in bed with a quite ThinkPad, the T43p can sound at times, like the wife blowdrying her hair in the hallway bathroom. lol

Daniel.

lophiomys · #17 Post by **lophiomys** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 4:15 am

I just got the chance to have a quick look on at T43p with 14 inch Monitor:
After all these negative messages and the troubles with fan/hot-spots on my
own R51, I was positively surpised:

During normal work the fan only came on occasionally and swtiched off again.
!999999999 in the Windows Calculator for 5 mins, made it nicley hot
around the cpu (left of the nibble on kbd and under side).
After interrupting the calcuation, the fan took ages to reduce rpm.
Beware: this was just a 10 mins test.

At least for this model the fan did not show the the pulsating-problem.

The fan noise was quite acceptable to my ears.

Build quality and screen are superb.

Have a nice day,

agarza · #18 Post by **agarza** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 1:13 am

My A22e fan was very quiet. Hope I could fix my overheating temps on my T42p after applying AS5.

gunston · #19 Post by **gunston** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:14 am

oh fan noise again

whether or not you like,
just bear with it, otherwise you can just get a new one or listen to music when using your T43,
in this case, it would not stand a chance of listening to Audible Fan Noise.

And don't forget to tell me, if you really want to throw away your T4x, tell me the location and i will be there to pick it up!!

gunston · #20 Post by **gunston** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:15 am

oh fan noise again

whether or not you like,
just bear with it, otherwise you can just get a new one or listen to music when using your T43,
in this case, it would not stand a chance of listening to Audible Fan Noise.

And don't forget to tell me the location, if you ever think of throwing away your T4x, because i will be there to pick it up!!

christopher_wolf · #21 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 2:40 pm

*Another* raising of a thread of questionable use about fan noise? When did this pop-up?

I don't see what is amazingly difficult about the concept of a T43 that is quiet and cool at all times.

I guess a good deal of this comes down to user preference. Users certainly do have some bizzare preferences and most are not always sane or logical. Hence, this is the most difficult thing to engineer for and is best solved with a variable control system. Much like what we have with the TP FCU.

Then there is model variation; no matter how tight the manufacturing tolerances are, variation is to be expected and, to a certain extent, accounted for. The cooling system on the T4X Slimline Thinkpads is difficult enough to engineer to exacting specifications without having to worry about the demand for a Sonoma chipset in the same chassis that endured since the Banias. Not all T43s have fan noise; as an example, mine has had the fan at level 1 for about 2 hours on battery now without the fan even turning on during the first 2 hours of operation doing AutoCAD 2007 work no less (switching back and forth between software and hardware accelerated renders). Further, this isn't just limited to the T43/p as I have been personally witness to a significant number of T42s, T41ps, and Even R Series Thinkpads that were indeed louder than my T43 at all times, not just during intensive operation. This makes me wonder just how other people manage to get CAD to expend that many system resources as CAD, Rhino3D, and various FEA suites have all run beautifully on my system on *battery* as well as AC line power; it must that some users have a *distinct* and well-developed talent for coming up with the best anti-optimization parameters available for the hardware, I honestly don't know. I suppose when engineering such systems, one could get a group of such, ahem, "talent" and get them to test the hardware; then again, I suppose it would be the same, not to mention cheaper and easier, to simply switch everything on and come up with the most random and crazily over-beaten workload imaginable and run it....or just let a toddler hit buttons for an hour. You obtain pretty much the same results in either case.

I bought my T43 as a mobile, slimline, and long-lifetime workstation for some very heavy duty bioengineering and medical applications. It has met and exceed all my criteria for it by lightyears; and my criteria, even excluding the "mobility" factor, would have easily outclassed most non-mobile computers that pose as "workstation" systems, usually they were far upwards of 3GHz and 2GB of memory. Given that kind of performance, which my T43 has been happy to provide, along with operating temperatures and noise levels either below or similar to that of a congruently spec'd T42p, I would say I made the right choice in getting my T43.

pianowizard · #22 Post by **pianowizard** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 2:57 pm

christopher_wolf wrote:Not all T43s have fan noise; as an example, mine has had the fan at level 1 for about 2 hours on battery now without the fan even turning on during the first 2 hours of operation doing AutoCAD 2007 work no less (switching back and forth between software and hardware accelerated renders). Further, this isn't just limited to the T43/p as I have been personally witness to a significant number of T42s, T41ps, and Even R Series Thinkpads that were indeed louder than my T43 at all times, not just during intensive operation.

I think what most of us T43 users are whining about is that a much higher percentage of T43's have noisy fans than for other models. Sure, there is an occasional T43 that's quiet, but if say 90% of all T43's are noisy, whereas only 10% T60's or T42's have noisy fans, then I would say something is wrong about the T43 line.

It's official...the T43 is much louder than the T42

It's official...the T43 is much louder than the T42

T42

Re: It's official...the T43 is much louder than the T42

public high-quality recording

got hands on a T43p 14"

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