ThinkPad T22 DVD playback possible?

T20-T23 Series and T30 specific matters only. NOT for T25-Retro.
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kfzhu1229
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ThinkPad T22 DVD playback possible?

#1 Post by kfzhu1229 » Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:13 pm

I have a T22 with PIII 900, T23 with PIIIM 1.13 and A30 with PIII 1.2.
A30 can play 720p in some extent just fine
T23 can play 480p and also DVD just fine (even with a crappy Windows XP driver in Windows 7)
Now the T22 can only play 360p as of now for some reason. Can somebody tell me if T22 is actually able to play DVD if I switch to Windows 98 or 2k?
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Re: ThinkPad T22 DVD playback possible?

#2 Post by axur-delmeria » Tue Nov 15, 2016 2:11 am

Just to clarify:
What OS is running on your T22?

Also, I'm a bit confused with the title.

DVD playback is well within the capability of the T22 AFAIK.
Perhaps you're referring to 480p youtube/web streaming (H.264/VP9) through a web browser?
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Re: ThinkPad T22 DVD playback possible?

#3 Post by kfzhu1229 » Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:10 am

No. Just DVD DL playback. I know I did what I'm not supposed to do. Both the T22 and T23 are in Windows 7 with 384mb of RAM for T22 and 1gb RAM for T23. T23 does the job just fine. Do you think by loading Windows 2000 I will get much more performance with 900mhz PIII? AFAIK my A30 did not get much compromises under Windows 7 because I loaded the 9600 driver other than no Aero
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Re: ThinkPad T22 DVD playback possible?

#4 Post by theterminator93 » Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:34 pm

I think you'll be better off with a period OS on that machine since it will provide much better specific GPU drivers - if you're primarily interested in video performance. There will be a lot less overhead with an older OS as well.
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Re: ThinkPad T22 DVD playback possible?

#5 Post by ajkula66 » Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:25 pm

theterminator93 wrote:I think you'll be better off with a period OS on that machine since it will provide much better specific GPU drivers - if you're primarily interested in video performance. There will be a lot less overhead with an older OS as well.
+1 and then some.

I had no problem playing DVDs using IBM-provided software back in the XP days. At all. On systems as old as 600X, let alone T2* series.
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Re: ThinkPad T22 DVD playback possible?

#6 Post by kfzhu1229 » Tue Nov 15, 2016 11:58 pm

And FYI I have just tried my Intel 2200BG card in T22 and it works just fine - but at the compromise of modem and Ethernet capability of course
Patience, boys. All good things to those who wait. – Mother Gothel (Tangled)
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Re: ThinkPad T22 DVD playback possible?

#7 Post by axur-delmeria » Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:07 am

Running Windows 7 with just 384MB RAM isn't really a good idea. I'm not even sure if the S3 Savage graphics has a proper Windows 7 driver.

One more question: What's the native resolution of your T22's display?
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Re: ThinkPad T22 DVD playback possible?

#8 Post by kfzhu1229 » Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:21 am

axur-delmeria wrote:Running Windows 7 with just 384MB RAM isn't really a good idea. I'm not even sure if the S3 Savage graphics has a proper Windows 7 driver.

One more question: What's the native resolution of your T22's display?
I know it is not the best idea ever. The machine takes two minutes to start and it runs like a Pentium 4 (I mean heat). The Windows 2k/XP driver works in Windows 7 as of that you can see the transition animation when logging on or shutting down. However that T23 driver is fine while T22 driver make the device unable to sleep or hibernate or else you end up with a bluescreen. For A30 the original driver will cause the display to go 16 color after sleep/hibernate and it sometimes crashes randomly. However that is fully solved by a newer Radeon 9000 or 9600 driver (non-Windows Vista version or else the driver could NOT start).
The T22 is utilizing a XGA display and I am worried that the driver could not perform SXGA+ in Windows 7 anyways as it happened to the Radeon 9000 driver but solved by 9600 driver.
On the other hand, T23 is fine with Windows 7, Pentium III-M 1.13Ghz (I have a 1.2ghz CPU vacant but too lazy to put it in) and 1GB RAM in my opinion and A30 with PIII-M 1.2ghz and also 1GB RAM runs perfectly. Both machines run very cool (I set the fan to maintain the CPU temp to 42-59 Celcius degrees) as long as you don't open the browser. But note that 1.2Ghz brings more TDP than 1.13Ghz
Patience, boys. All good things to those who wait. – Mother Gothel (Tangled)
_________________________________
T23 PIII 1.13ghz 1gb W7
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Re: ThinkPad T22 DVD playback possible?

#9 Post by theterminator93 » Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:42 am

Perhaps I shouldn't ask, but I will since I am quite curious to know your motivation...

Why the insistence with Windows 7 on this old hardware? Just to see how far you can push it? What is Windows 7 giving you that you need for these that XP or 2000 won't (at the expense of hardware compatibility and speed/overhead)?

I'll preface the next paragraph with this - it's my opinion which I'm expressing just to allow you to understand my point of view. I hope to be able to understand yours, so don't interpret hostility or harshness in the text, as there is none as I type it.

I'll be frank and say that honestly I don't see a practical application to a current (even if EOL is 3 years away) OS on such old hardware since the big benefits of the newer OSes are compatibility and enhancements to function well with newer hardware - along with the obvious up-to-date standpoint for today's always-connected-to-the-web machines. In that light, trying to use Windows 7 on a Pentium 3 with less than half a gig of RAM, which is barely enough to get the kernel in memory (and at that, I can't imagine the beating the hard disk is taking because of all the paging), relegates the machine's usefulness in connectivity related tasks to nothing at all, since it will be painfully slow doing any type of application work (esp. web browsing). So if the machine is too slow to do any web work, why run an OS whose primary plus over the older OSes is the ability to do web work (safely)? Again at the surface it just seems like a "see how far I can go" challenge to me.
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Re: ThinkPad T22 DVD playback possible?

#10 Post by RealBlackStuff » Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:18 am

The only reason why I still have a T23 (with XP-Pro, 1.13GHz CPU and 1GB RAM) is a hardware requirement.
I only use that T23 for programs (for e.g. password removal) that require a Serial Port.
This machine has not been online in probably 4 or 5 years (and probably never will again).
If needed, I also have a Floppy Drive, DVD, CDRW-DVD and ZIP-drive for it.
A previous T30 was not reliable enough for my needs.
For any other needs I have plenty newer machines to choose from.
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Re: ThinkPad T22 DVD playback possible?

#11 Post by kfzhu1229 » Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:21 am

theterminator93 wrote:Perhaps I shouldn't ask, but I will since I am quite curious to know your motivation...

Why the insistence with Windows 7 on this old hardware? Just to see how far you can push it? What is Windows 7 giving you that you need for these that XP or 2000 won't (at the expense of hardware compatibility and speed/overhead)?

I'll preface the next paragraph with this - it's my opinion which I'm expressing just to allow you to understand my point of view. I hope to be able to understand yours, so don't interpret hostility or harshness in the text, as there is none as I type it.

I'll be frank and say that honestly I don't see a practical application to a current (even if EOL is 3 years away) OS on such old hardware since the big benefits of the newer OSes are compatibility and enhancements to function well with newer hardware - along with the obvious up-to-date standpoint for today's always-connected-to-the-web machines. In that light, trying to use Windows 7 on a Pentium 3 with less than half a gig of RAM, which is barely enough to get the kernel in memory
On a Coppermine PIII or older hardware you are completely right. On a Tualatin Pentium III you can stick with both NT5 and NT6 if you have 1gb RAM and if you can make the OS stay debloated. I just like Windows 7's refreshing appearance more than XP and on machines like A30 not much comprimises are present. On a Pentium M however, especially Sonoma in T43, the benefits of newer OS start to show. You can use the latest software (things like the latest version of Spotify no longer works with XP), Aero-compatible ATI GPU can finally show its potential. And yea I do have the thought of making the machines show their maximum potential with moderate upgraded. To be very honest, a computer like A30 with PIII 1.2 and 1G RAM runs just fine in Windows 7 SP1 clean install. Yes the speeds are not blazing fast but completely acceptable. Machines like T22 I'm thinking of salvaging another hard drive and put Windows 2000 on it as well because I have to admit Windows 7 is giving it a hard time
Patience, boys. All good things to those who wait. – Mother Gothel (Tangled)
_________________________________
T23 PIII 1.13ghz 1gb W7
2xT43 14.1" 2.26 SXGA+ 2gb 1*fp W10
T530i 15.6" i7 16gb fp W10
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Re: ThinkPad T22 DVD playback possible?

#12 Post by kfzhu1229 » Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:23 am

RealBlackStuff wrote:The only reason why I still have a T23 (with XP-Pro, 1.13GHz CPU and 1GB RAM) is a hardware requirement.
I only use that T23 for programs (for e.g. password removal) that require a Serial Port.
This machine has not been online in probably 4 or 5 years (and probably never will again).
If needed, I also have a Floppy Drive, DVD, CDRW-DVD and ZIP-drive for it.
A previous T30 was not reliable enough for my needs.
For any other needs I have plenty newer machines to choose from.
I have a superdrive as well in case you need it. It also works as a regular floppy drive just a bit slower to recognize regular floppies and the eject button is not mechanical which means it can only eject when powered on without a sharp object
Patience, boys. All good things to those who wait. – Mother Gothel (Tangled)
_________________________________
T23 PIII 1.13ghz 1gb W7
2xT43 14.1" 2.26 SXGA+ 2gb 1*fp W10
T530i 15.6" i7 16gb fp W10
Flexview UXGA:
A30p PIII 1.2 1gb W7 (IDTech)
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Re: ThinkPad T22 DVD playback possible?

#13 Post by kfzhu1229 » Sat Nov 26, 2016 3:57 pm

Okay using a old WinDVD 4 solved the problem. That software works fine and plays fine even in Windows 7
Also what kind of decoders do you use to get the most out of these computers in Windows 2000?
Patience, boys. All good things to those who wait. – Mother Gothel (Tangled)
_________________________________
T23 PIII 1.13ghz 1gb W7
2xT43 14.1" 2.26 SXGA+ 2gb 1*fp W10
T530i 15.6" i7 16gb fp W10
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Re: ThinkPad T22 DVD playback possible?

#14 Post by axur-delmeria » Sun Nov 27, 2016 1:51 am

Most GPUs of that era had some form of acceleration for MPEG-1 and MPEG-2 (DVD video codec) but required software that could make use of it. WinDVD 4 must be utilizing such a feature on the Savage GPU.
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Re: ThinkPad T22 DVD playback possible?

#15 Post by kfzhu1229 » Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:41 pm

http://imgur.com/a/4hNwy
I have no idea why this more than a decade old software performs better in Windows 7 (with hardware decoding acceleration) and also the hardware decoding acceleration option is only available in Windows 7, the hardware decoding acceleration option eliminates 5-7% of CPU usage in average
(The refresh rate for task manager in 2k and 7 are different which is why the 2k one seems shorter)
The software in Windows 7 cannot even load properly (it cannot load any of its images for some reason: no splash screen, no player window, no logos) but still performs a bit more efficient in Windows 7...
Patience, boys. All good things to those who wait. – Mother Gothel (Tangled)
_________________________________
T23 PIII 1.13ghz 1gb W7
2xT43 14.1" 2.26 SXGA+ 2gb 1*fp W10
T530i 15.6" i7 16gb fp W10
Flexview UXGA:
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T43p 2.26 2gb fp W10

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Re: ThinkPad T22 DVD playback possible?

#16 Post by edik » Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:35 am

Although this an old topic I should like to contribute I had an old 770 (P233/MMX) back in 2003 and with any software it would stutter on DVD playback from the internal DVD-R, the way I solved it was with the DVD and Enhanced Video Adapter (DEVA) - FRU PN: 11J9008, 12J0411, with this playback was superb, even then it only cost me $20 to pick one up (now likely not as cheap!).

I'd guess the 600 series and 770ED/770X/770Z were the minimum stock DVD playable machines, so around early '98 it became achievable (with the PII equipped basic 600 and later the 770ED).

Could be wrong... just my experience with the basic P233 MMX equipped 770 makes me think this, and I did use all vanilla supplied Software than came with the 770 (think was Win 98) such as WinDVD?

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Re: ThinkPad T22 DVD playback possible?

#17 Post by kfzhu1229 » Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:01 pm

edik wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:35 am
Although this an old topic I should like to contribute I had an old 770 (P233/MMX) back in 2003 and with any software it would stutter on DVD playback from the internal DVD-R, the way I solved it was with the DVD and Enhanced Video Adapter (DEVA) - FRU PN: 11J9008, 12J0411, with this playback was superb, even then it only cost me $20 to pick one up (now likely not as cheap!).

I'd guess the 600 series and 770ED/770X/770Z were the minimum stock DVD playable machines, so around early '98 it became achievable (with the PII equipped basic 600 and later the 770ED).

Could be wrong... just my experience with the basic P233 MMX equipped 770 makes me think this, and I did use all vanilla supplied Software than came with the 770 (think was Win 98) such as WinDVD?
Well, 770 series was designed to play DVD with that dedicated decoder which slots under the main battery. Those PII by itself may simply not have enough horsepower to do such a thing, neither do the Trident or NeoMagic GPU chips inside those things.
You have to go for 660x or T/A2x series to have smooth DVD playback experience.
What software did you use for DVD playback in 770? I remembered that those first gen DVD drives that came with 770 do not support region settings, thus most software refuses to play the official DVDs off the shelf altogether.
Patience, boys. All good things to those who wait. – Mother Gothel (Tangled)
_________________________________
T23 PIII 1.13ghz 1gb W7
2xT43 14.1" 2.26 SXGA+ 2gb 1*fp W10
T530i 15.6" i7 16gb fp W10
Flexview UXGA:
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T43p 2.26 2gb fp W10

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Re: ThinkPad T22 DVD playback possible?

#18 Post by edik » Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:45 pm

What software did you use for DVD playback in 770? I remembered that those first gen DVD drives that came with 770 do not support region settings, thus most software refuses to play the official DVDs off the shelf altogether.
Can't recall now, whatever came with the machine originally (I think Win98 and WinDVD) - oddly enough I do recall it had the ability to change Region... because you could only do it a certain number of times before it became fixed... and the DVD's were UK distributed releases rented from the local Library.

I did purchase the machine used though and the guy selling it to me had dozens of 770's, some in pieces, so it would likely not be the original drive! (Incidentally he also used some cleaner and a cloth on the surface of highly scratched 770 lids that smoothed them out to look literally "new".. always wondered what that was!!)

Even though it was 1998 Pentium I 233 MMX, with the DVD card the playback was flawless, quite amazing in fact.

2017: T450 i5-5300U/12/256/FHD/72Wh
2007-2014: T520/i7-2760QM/8GB/320GB, WSXGA+, X200s, T500, A31p, A30p, T42p, X60s, X32, X31
Gone but not forgotten 1998-2006: 2006 T43p 2668-H2G (2GB/60), T22 2648-8EG (128/20) 2005 X40, X31 2004 T30 SXGA+, 600X, 2003 770 P233+DVD Card, 760XD 1998 760XL+104MB

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