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Solid State Hard Drive on T23 (w/pictures)

T20-T23 Series and T30. NOT for T25-Retro.
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techningeer
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Solid State Hard Drive on T23 (w/pictures)

#1 Post by techningeer » Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:18 pm

Hello everybody, First I want to say that I love the T23 Laptop. Just plain great. But I have been doing some research into putting a solid state drive into it. The reason for this is that I have IBM's fastest OEM hard drive, but it still isn't fast enough. The CPU and RAM are just fine, so I wanted to get a SSD. Any recommendations on compatible SSDs? Thanks in advance, Keagan

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Re: Solid State Hard Drive on T23

#2 Post by sarbin » Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:47 pm

welcome to tpf!

my guess is that you can't put any ssd into a t23. it's been a while since i used a t2x, but iirc, it has an ide/pata interface (predating sata), and, as far as i know, all ssds are sata.

if i've misstated this, i'm sure someone will be along shortly to correct.

cheers!
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Re: Solid State Hard Drive on T23

#3 Post by twistero » Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:57 pm

The T23 indeed use a PATA hard drive. There are PATA SSDs out there, in both 2.5 inch and 1.8 inch form-factors, but they are more expensive than the more common SATA counterparts.
Alternatively, you can get a smaller form-factor SATA SSD such as 1.8 inch or mSATA, and use a PATA-SATA adapter.
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Re: Solid State Hard Drive on T23

#4 Post by sarbin » Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:02 pm

twistero wrote:The T23 indeed use a PATA hard drive. There are PATA SSDs out there, in both 2.5 inch and 1.8 inch form-factors, but they are more expensive than the more common SATA counterparts.
Alternatively, you can get a smaller form-factor SATA SSD such as 1.8 inch or mSATA, and use a PATA-SATA adapter.
and then it slots into the standard hdd bay? interesting...
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Re: Solid State Hard Drive on T23

#5 Post by twistero » Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:28 pm

See this post for the adapter approach: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=99771
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Re: Solid State Hard Drive on T23

#6 Post by ajkula66 » Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:13 pm

twistero wrote:The T23 indeed use a PATA hard drive. There are PATA SSDs out there, in both 2.5 inch and 1.8 inch form-factors, but they are more expensive than the more common SATA counterparts.
Alternatively, you can get a smaller form-factor SATA SSD such as 1.8 inch or mSATA, and use a PATA-SATA adapter.
Given the transfer speeds and overall computing power of a T23, that would be a tremendous waste of money IMO...

Another thing to consider is that XP needs a serious amount of tweaking to run half-decently on SSD, and even then...well, let's just say that I was underwhelmed with the experience on ThinkPads far newer than T23...and W7 is a really bad idea on a platform of this vintage...

Another option - probably the least painful one - would be some *nix flavour, since most of the recent distros support TRIM...

Good luck.
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Re: Solid State Hard Drive on T23

#7 Post by Bot13 » Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:45 pm

I have been using a SSD (Transcend 8Gig) on my T23 for the past five plus years(Xp). Unfortunately I did not set it up, but I do know there is no adapter.

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Re: Solid State Hard Drive on T23

#8 Post by Johan » Thu Jul 12, 2012 1:38 am

I usually never see this (T2x and T3x) sub-forum, but by coincidence I just stumbled across this thread, and I would like to make a contribution which I am certain will be of interest for those who might consider upgrading their e.g. T22 from having an old, slow mechanical (PATA) harddrive to having a FAST SSD, as I understand our new member (and welcome!) techningeer is asking about/potentially considering:

In the threads 1.8" SATA to 2.5" IDE converter? and T42 SSD Conversion Success (1.8" SATA drive + bridge board) the use of a 1.8"-SATA-to-2.5"-PATA bridge is discussed; it will allow a 1.8" SATA SSD to be mounted in an older ThinkPad, which are designed for having a 2.5" PATA drive. As seen from those two threads, focus there is on T4x ThinkPad's, but the same adapter can also (!) be used in e.g. a T22... I know this from actual experience by forum.thinkpads.com member GACrabill. Gary and I have for some time been testing one 2.5" PATA SSD (a 60 GB OWC as discussed in the thread 2.5" PATA OWC Mercury Legacy Pro SSD: Performance in T42?) and different 1.8" SATA SSD's in different ThinkPad's (a T22, a T40 and a T42p), with both Windows XP and with Windows 7. The T40 and T42/p results will be posted shortly in the two above-mentioned threads.

In the thread T43 Installed Transcend SSD observations **PICTURE LINKS*** the performance of another (cheaper) 2.5" PATA SSD is discussed; I guess that this SSD will also work well in a T2x.

In his T22, Gary tested the speed of his (old!) 60 GB, 5400 rpm mechanical HDD and the speed of a Kingston SSDNow V+180 128 GB SSD (it is a microSATA II 3 GB/S 1.8" SSD with model number SVP180S2/128G). The following CrystalDiskMarks (ver. 3.0.1) performance was recorded by Gary with his T22 (having a 900 MHz Intel Pentium-3), under Windows XP, for three SSD's:

First is shown the diskspeed of the 60 GB, 5400 rpm mechanical (PATA) HDD:

Image

Next is shown the diskspeed of the 60 GB 2.5" PATA OWC SSD (model OWCSSDMLP060):

Image

... and finally the diskspeed of a 128 GB Kingston 1.8" SATA SSD (with the 1.8"-to-2.5"-SATA-to-PATA adopted, mentioned above) is shown:

Image

Notice that there is no information about whether the XP installation on the two SSD's were partition-aligned or not (partition alignment is known to may have a significant impact on the SSD speed/performance on some drives, especially under XP... but the issue of SSD partition alignment is not a topic for this post).

Gary made the following remarks to these three SSD's when used in his T22:

a) The T22 XP performance with the OWC PATA SSD is noticeably slower than the Kingston mSATA SSD results. The OWC PATA SSD keeps up with the mSATA SSDs in the DMA-5 IDE controllers of the T40, but the mSATA SSDs do better than the OWC PATA SSD when installed in an older T22 with a DMA-2 IDE controller.

b) The HDD activity LED does show activity when using the OWC PATA SSD in either Windows 7 or XP (Johan's addition to this comment: The HDD LED does not shown any activity when using the 1.8" Kingston SSD with the eBay 1.8"-SATA-to-2.5"-PATA adapter).

c) The OWC PATA SSD works fine in a T22 running XP, and there are no weird driver messages at every boot-up like there were with the Kingston mSATA SSD.

d) The T22 XP 4K Read/Write performance with an SSD is almost the same as a T40 XP 4K Read/Write performance (Johan's note: The T40 results are not shown in this post, but will be added to pne of the first mentioned threads). Very interesting that a really old T22 on XP can be improved with an SSD to the same random 4K read/write performance level as a T40 on XP using the same SSD.

To emphasize: The purpose of this post is solely to share information which I have not seen reported anywhere. I hope and believe that this post is of interest for those seeking knowledge, and the purpose of this thread is therefore NOT to say anything like: "Anyone should immediately rush out and replace their old, slow mechanical HDD's in their e.g. T2x ThinkPad's by expensive SATA or PATA SSD's".

In my opinion it is (of course!) for anyone to decide on his/her own whether it is worth the expense to upgrade an old laptop, such as a T22, with an expensive SSD. All this just added to avoid obvious, non-technical comments.

Again, all credit for the achievements reported in this post goes solely to forum.thinkpads.com member GACrabill... :thumbs-UP:

PS: I hope that this report might fuel an interest for other members to test these SSD's also in other "old" PATA-ThinkPad's, such as the R5x/p's, A3x/p's etc... :-)

Johan
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IBM T42 (2373-N1G): 1.8 GHz, 15" SXGA+ FlexView, 2 GB RAM, 64 MB Radeon 9600, 64 GB 1.8" SATA SSD, IBM a/b/g, BT, Win 7 Ultimate

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Re: Solid State Hard Drive on T23 (w/pictures)

#9 Post by hrmcrm » Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:18 am

Through some tinkering with an X41, I wound up with an Intel 1.8" 80GB SATA SSD (SSDSA1M080G2HP). After reading the posts above about using 1.8" SSDs with adapter boards, I was curious how this would work in my T23 (2647-8MU). It was running fine with a 60GB, 5400 RPM mechanical drive, multi-booting OpenSuSE 12.1 Linux, Windows XP Pro, and Windows 98SE.

I got an adapter for $4.19 on e-bay, and started the experiment. I used Paragon Software's Backup & Recovery 2012 Free Edition to make images of the partitions for Win XP and 98SE, and OpenSuSE /home. I switched drives, used Parted Magic to create partitions on the SSD, then used Backup & Recovery to restore the three images. I installed OpenSuSE 12.2 from scratch, keeping the restored /home partition. That gave me a working boot loader. After a bit of tweaking, all the OS's worked as they had with the mechanical drive.

Here are results of benchmark tests for the two drives:
Image

Image

The SSD was actually a bit slower for sequential operations, but much faster for everything else. In practice, I really do not notice a significant difference in performance between the two drives for the tasks I normally perform.

Is it worth replacing a working mechanical HD in a T23 with an SSD? In my opinion, no.

Is a 1.8" SSD with an adapter worth considering to replace a dead mechanical HD? In my opinion, yes. PATA/IDE 2.5" mechanical HDs are becoming less available and seem to be getting more expensive. Now a new 5400 RPM 80GB mechanical drive costs about $50. With some judicious shopping, a used 60 to 80GB SSD plus adapter can be bought on e-bay for about the same price. Then, when the T23 truly dies, you have a semi-modern drive to use elsewhere.

As a further test, I put the SSD in my 600E (2645-4A0). It brought up the boot loader graphic screen correctly, indicating the BIOS could get into the extended partition. There was no point trying to boot since all the drivers were for the T23.

Finally, I put the SSD in the 310ED (2600-50U). Powering on got some text from the boot loader, then an error message that the partition did not exist. The BIOS on the 310ED cannot deal with a drive anywhere near this big.

For both the T23 and 600E, I did a fair amount of disassembly to get to the hard drive connector to ensure the pins were inserted correctly; same with removal to get the adapter out of the PATA plug.
310ED, 600E, T23, X41, X60, T61, X201, E550

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Re: Solid State Hard Drive on T23 (w/pictures)

#10 Post by techningeer » Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:30 pm

Wow guys..

My hard drive finally failed entirely. So now I either need to get a new HD or a different laptop, and I really hate to get rid of this one, I need it for audio processing and software development...

Thanks to all of those who posted valuable info in this later. I actually came back to this thread through a link from another thread, and I was like, hey, this was my thread lol!

Any rate, if I get a SSD I will certainly let everyone know how it works out, I have found a different HD I may be interested in though, it is a 6K RPM PATA hard drive, and supposedly a flash update to the IDE controlled allows higher throughput when using this HD (which I already flashed, big improvement with stock HD). More later.

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Re: Solid State Hard Drive on T23 (w/pictures)

#11 Post by hrmcrm » Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:13 pm

techningeer wrote:supposedly a flash update to the IDE controlled allows higher throughput when using this HD (which I already flashed, big improvement with stock HD).
That's intriguing. What was the flash file named, and where did you get it? I believe I have not done this on my T23. I still use mine for some midi file processing.
Regards,
Howard
310ED, 600E, T23, X41, X60, T61, X201, E550

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Re: Solid State Hard Drive on T23 (w/pictures)

#12 Post by RealBlackStuff » Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:18 am

@techningeer:
I have a few T23 machines in very good condition for sale.
PM me if interested.
Lovely day for a Guinness! (The Real Black Stuff)
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Re: Solid State Hard Drive on T23 (w/pictures)

#13 Post by ac12 » Sun Mar 29, 2015 2:23 pm

I just did a test install of a mSATA SSD on my T23, and it works.
I used the Aleratec mSATA to IDE adapter and a Samsung 32GB mSATA SSD.

- I pre-configured the partition for SSD (partition and format), and the first XP install loaded but did not complete. It would not reboot for the 2nd part of the install. And would not boot at all.
- So the 2nd time I did the XP install, I used XP to repartition and quick format the SSD, and the XP install completed, and the T23 would boot. :D
- Then I used AOMEI Partition Assistant, to reset the offset for the SSD. gpart could not be used due to the screen being unreadable.

The T23 is MUCH snappier with the SSD than the mechanical drive. :D
Now that the proof of concept worked, I will be replacing the 32GB SSD (meant for the Dell C400) with a 120GB SSD.
Hopefully it will give me more use out of the old machine, before I have to bit the bullet and retire it.

A few things that I learned:
- Partitioning the SSD from a win7 PC, created a boot partition that was not compatible with the XP install. It took me a while to figure this out. I then had to change it to MBR, which took more time to figure out.
- Pre-partitioning and formatting the SSD (using win7) before installing XP did not work, for me. I had to install using XP, then align the drive after the XP install using AOMEI. gpart was not usable on the T23, as the screen display was not readable.

Update: I installed a larger 120GB SSD into the T23, with the following procedure, based on what I learned before:
- I put the new SSD into the adapter, and put the adapter into an external drive assembly
- I plugged the external drive (with the new SSD) into an XP computer
- I then ran the AOMEI partition program to create 2 partitions; #1=System 60G, #2=Data rest of drive
I used the advanced setting and selected SSD optimize
- I removed the adapter+SSD from the external drive housing, and installed the adapter+SSD into the TP drive caddy then put it into the T23
- I began the XP install; the install found the drive, installed XP and the installation reboot from the SSD worked :banana: yay
- I am now running the Windows update and loading software.

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Re: Solid State Hard Drive on T23 (w/pictures)

#14 Post by ac12 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:09 am

Update to my T23 and SSD.

I moved the 120GB SSD to another computer.
I decided that another laptop could use the larger SSD more than the T23.

So I got to do this all over again with a 64GB SSD in the T23.
This time I made a few changes.
- I partitioned the SSD as before, as an external drive on a XP machine, using AOMEI (advanced setting, SSD optimize)
- - Partition 1 was 40GB for XP. Single XP partition this time, to make space management easier.
- - I left the remainder of the drive unpartitioned, for later install of Linux.
- Then I moved the drive into the T23 and installed XP as usual.

In the sw install, I noticed something interesting. I was only able to install Panda AntiVirus (I wanted a lightweight AV for the T23). When I tried to install Avast, AVG and Avira, they all failed to install. This was consistent with the prior install of XP on the SSD, and with the Dell C400 with a SSD and XP. But the same anti-virus (Avast, AVG and Avira) would install on a standard mechanical HD. The only difference is the mSATA SSD and the mSATA to PATA adapter.

The other problem is not SSD related but T23 and XP related. I cannot upgrade/use the latest version of some software. The latest version of FireFox wants a CPU with a certain functionality that it seems the CPU in the T23 does not have. I ran into the same problem trying to install another browser, I think it was Opera.

The drive is performing nicely. Boot up is much faster than the mechanical HD, and it seems snappier.
As long as I am careful of what I run it works fine. MS Office 2007 and LibrOffice 5.2 work fine.
Web surfing is where the old machine just struggles, with the CPU pegged at 100%. That is probably a combination of the anti-virus sw + the web page.

BTW, any recommendations for a Linux distro that will run on the T23?

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Re: Solid State Hard Drive on T23 (w/pictures)

#15 Post by RealBlackStuff » Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:25 am

Try the PaleMoon browser, combined with Firemin, to drastically reduce memory usage.

As for Linux: Zorin, LXLE and Antix come to mind.
Lovely day for a Guinness! (The Real Black Stuff)
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Re: Solid State Hard Drive on T23 (w/pictures)

#16 Post by dr_st » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:59 am

Pale Moon requires SSE2 support ; will not run on a T23.
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Re: Solid State Hard Drive on T23 (w/pictures)

#17 Post by hrmcrm » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:14 pm

ac12 wrote:BTW, any recommendations for a Linux distro that will run on the T23?
I'm writing this on a T23 running Mint 18 Xfce. The other Mint desktops were beyond T23 resources.
I installed package Xserver-xorg-video-savage to get the right driver for the S3 graphic chip.
Firefox and Thunderbird work, although leisurely.
Regards,
Howard
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Re: Solid State Hard Drive on T23 (w/pictures)

#18 Post by kfzhu1229 » Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:16 pm

As for Windows 7 on T23, I have to admit you will get compromises such as laggy graphics (the GPU driver barely works in Windows 7 but at least it turns on fine) even though with the Radeon 7000 on A30/p Windows 7 works fine.
No I wouldn't suggest you putting a SSD inside that machine. Its motherboard limitation can barely touch with the speed of my hard drive from a T43p which means if you use SSD it will not run at full speed.
Instead, if you haven't done so, put 1gb RAM and 1.2ghz PIII CPU
Dell Lat CP MMX-233 64mb 40gb W2k
600 PII-266 416mb 40gb WXP
T23 PIII 1.13ghz 1gb W7
Precision M4300 X9000 8gb 160gb WUXGA Ultrasharp fp W10
T530i 15.6" i7 16gb fp W10
UXGA:
A30p PIII 1.2 1gb W7 (IDTech)
T43p 2.26 2gb fp W10 (Sharp)
Lat C840 P4-2.5 2gb 60gb W7 (Ultrasharp)

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Re: Solid State Hard Drive on T23 (w/pictures)

#19 Post by jaspen-meyer » Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:25 pm

I'm typing this on an x24 with an ssd and Xubuntu 14.04. The ssd is a huge performance boost.

For the browser, you need a way to prevent unneeded javascript from running, and hogging all of the CPU power. One option is: https://noscript.net/

If XFCE is too sluggish, you can further pear-down and use simpler windows managers: openbox, fluxbox, jwm, icewm, fvwm.
T420 i7 3612QM seabios; T420 i7 3630QM; T400 Q9100 seabios; T61 P9600; T60 libreboot; x62; x60s libreboot, led; x24 xiphmont led

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Re: Solid State Hard Drive on T23 (w/pictures)

#20 Post by kfzhu1229 » Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:23 pm

Last time I was too lazy to pull my USB IDE hard drive caddy out so I used my A30 to perform file transfer from its own drive to ultrabay. For some reason the transfer speed was 15mb/s with no other hard drive activity and both of these hard drives can at least transfer 24mb/s on their own in my T43. In my case, the motherboard bottlenecked my transfer speed or is there a slowdown for the ultrabay 2000 connector or something?
Dell Lat CP MMX-233 64mb 40gb W2k
600 PII-266 416mb 40gb WXP
T23 PIII 1.13ghz 1gb W7
Precision M4300 X9000 8gb 160gb WUXGA Ultrasharp fp W10
T530i 15.6" i7 16gb fp W10
UXGA:
A30p PIII 1.2 1gb W7 (IDTech)
T43p 2.26 2gb fp W10 (Sharp)
Lat C840 P4-2.5 2gb 60gb W7 (Ultrasharp)

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