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t21 not turning on probably bod
t21 not turning on probably bod
hi i just got a t21 wich rarely turns on and just blinks hdd led, ive read about the bod but the fix is to replace the chip but i cant solder and neither i have the equipment to do so, i updated the bios but i still need to get it to power on again
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Re: t21 not turning on probably bod
can someone help?
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Re: t21 not turning on probably bod
Well if it really is a suspect of blink of death, not sure if this would help, but I think if you have a multimeter you can have a chance to look at the ADP3421 chip and see if it's bad. But the risk is if you short some legs together by some butterfingers and that the machine had power connected, you say goodbye to your motherboard.
I haven't had a blink of death before but I had a very similar ADP3420 chip in a Pentium III CPU that failed and I found that out by finding out that one of the legs was shorted to ground despite it supposed to have 2.5V of input! The result is the transistor that generated that 2.5V of input voltage to the chip was burning hot.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=130095&p=843601&hi ... 20#p843601
I haven't had a blink of death before but I had a very similar ADP3420 chip in a Pentium III CPU that failed and I found that out by finding out that one of the legs was shorted to ground despite it supposed to have 2.5V of input! The result is the transistor that generated that 2.5V of input voltage to the chip was burning hot.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=130095&p=843601&hi ... 20#p843601
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Re: t21 not turning on probably bod
Indeed this sounds like BOD. There is another way of curing it, but no guarantees of course. But it still requires soldering (a resistor), but not too complicated. More details here (german) https://thinkwiki.de/BoD
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Re: t21 not turning on probably bod
I consider doing this on my BoD-affected A21m. I understood that it's considered a safe fix (meaning, if it works, it works, and does not significantly increase risk of damaging other components), and if it doesn't work, it means that the chip is totally dead and has to be replaced. Do you agree with this assessment?Bondi wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2020 2:51 pmIndeed this sounds like BOD. There is another way of curing it, but no guarantees of course. But it still requires soldering (a resistor), but not too complicated. More details here (german) https://thinkwiki.de/BoD
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Re: t21 not turning on probably bod
Ah I have done this trick to troubleshoot before. This is to trick the SuperIO chip to think everything is working well instead of shutting the machine down. After you solder the resistor make sure to probe around with a multimeter to see if you have connected the surrounding pins too (Pin 24 is Vcc but Pin 22 is Ground!)dr_st wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:33 pmI consider doing this on my BoD-affected A21m. I understood that it's considered a safe fix (meaning, if it works, it works, and does not significantly increase risk of damaging other components), and if it doesn't work, it means that the chip is totally dead and has to be replaced. Do you agree with this assessment?
With this connected, if it still doesn't work, perhaps now it's a good time to bring out a Voltmeter and measure the voltages on each pin of the leg to see if they are all in spec. Also, put your finger around the surrounding capacitors and transistors to see if they are abnormally hot. Again my dead ADP3420 chip brought down a 2.5V clock rail to ground and as a result the transistors and a capacitor connected to that pin are burning hot.
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Re: t21 not turning on probably bod
Frankly, I have not yet tried this method. But from what I read on german thinkpads forum it's a safe mod, given that nothing is shorted.dr_st wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:33 pmI consider doing this on my BoD-affected A21m. I understood that it's considered a safe fix (meaning, if it works, it works, and does not significantly increase risk of damaging other components), and if it doesn't work, it means that the chip is totally dead and has to be replaced. Do you agree with this assessment?Bondi wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2020 2:51 pmIndeed this sounds like BOD. There is another way of curing it, but no guarantees of course. But it still requires soldering (a resistor), but not too complicated. More details here (german) https://thinkwiki.de/BoD
My A21p showed BoD symptoms some time ago, to my regret. I was already going to find someone to replace the Atmel chip, but yesterday I tried resitting the RAM modules. And it booted fine several times. I'm not not sure if it was bad RAM contact or it worked because of a 3 months resting.
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Re: t21 not turning on probably bod
thanks for the replies, regarding the tester i dont wanna risk because i have too "fat" leads, i will try to find someone who solders on pcb and get the 2.2 resistor and see if it fixes, because i have little experience on soldering in general and a too big soldering tip and a normal fixed temp iron
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Re: t21 not turning on probably bod
Well I suppose you can try the multimeter trick again and see if the pins that are supposed to have voltage are shorted to ground. That can be done with the machine off so you don't have anything to risk forfiat682 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 1:24 pmthanks for the replies, regarding the tester i dont wanna risk because i have too "fat" leads, i will try to find someone who solders on pcb and get the 2.2 resistor and see if it fixes, because i have little experience on soldering in general and a too big soldering tip and a normal fixed temp iron
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Re: t21 not turning on probably bod
what pins im supposed to check and how do can i see if its grounded?
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Re: t21 not turning on probably bod
Here is a pic of the pinout for ADP3421:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!At7-rt1KJ7WviPcyVan ... w?e=AtZD3l
The pin that I have circled in red was the fault I had with my ADP3420 chip (they have the same pinouts), which ended up shorting to ground. In that case switching the multimeter to continuity mode you will get a beep and also saying it is near 0 ohms!
I don't think anything except for pin 16 and pin 22 (Perhaps also 27 and 28) which are the ground pins should have continuity to ground! Some pins may have low resistance but nothing should have a resistance lower than like 8-10Ohms to the ground pin!
Since there isn't anything for you to lose with the machine powered off, test every pin's continuity to pin 22 ground, you should have only pin 16, possibly 27, 28 (and 22 itself) read less than 8-10Ohms in resistance.
If you do have other pins reading less than that, report it here and I'll try to see if it's actually a problem.
Alternatively, if you have steady hands, you can try plugging the laptop in (to ac and/or battery) but do NOT power it on yet. Now switch to DC voltage mode, and measure the voltage for pin 15 and 16 and 24 to ground. If any of them have no significant voltage, you have a problem. Pin 24 should read around 3.3V in voltage.
This can be slightly risky though because if your multimeter probe slips and shorts out the legs, the chip may get fried if it isn't already fried. What can reduce this chance though is instead of probing exactly at the pin legs, find another spot less prone to slipping mistakes that has direct continuity to that leg and measure there.
If those three pins measure normally, now press the power button. AFAIK for this blink of death problem one or more of pin 15 and 16 will drop down to near 0 after the blink of death and then won't go back up until you reconnect the power.
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Re: t21 not turning on probably bod
i will look into it
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Re: t21 not turning on probably bod
hi sorry for taking so long, btw i tried the continuity method and i get a short only on pin 20kfzhu1229 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 1:19 pmHere is a pic of the pinout for ADP3421:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!At7-rt1KJ7WviPcyVan ... w?e=AtZD3l
The pin that I have circled in red was the fault I had with my ADP3420 chip (they have the same pinouts), which ended up shorting to ground. In that case switching the multimeter to continuity mode you will get a beep and also saying it is near 0 ohms!
I don't think anything except for pin 16 and pin 22 (Perhaps also 27 and 28) which are the ground pins should have continuity to ground! Some pins may have low resistance but nothing should have a resistance lower than like 8-10Ohms to the ground pin!
Since there isn't anything for you to lose with the machine powered off, test every pin's continuity to pin 22 ground, you should have only pin 16, possibly 27, 28 (and 22 itself) read less than 8-10Ohms in resistance.
If you do have other pins reading less than that, report it here and I'll try to see if it's actually a problem.
Alternatively, if you have steady hands, you can try plugging the laptop in (to ac and/or battery) but do NOT power it on yet. Now switch to DC voltage mode, and measure the voltage for pin 15 and 16 and 24 to ground. If any of them have no significant voltage, you have a problem. Pin 24 should read around 3.3V in voltage.
This can be slightly risky though because if your multimeter probe slips and shorts out the legs, the chip may get fried if it isn't already fried. What can reduce this chance though is instead of probing exactly at the pin legs, find another spot less prone to slipping mistakes that has direct continuity to that leg and measure there.
If those three pins measure normally, now press the power button. AFAIK for this blink of death problem one or more of pin 15 and 16 will drop down to near 0 after the blink of death and then won't go back up until you reconnect the power.
btw forgot to mention that if i connect the psu the battery charge is green but as soon as i press the power button it dies off
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Re: t21 not turning on probably bod
That is bad. Pin 20 is called Core, or core converter voltage monitor. If that pin is shorted to ground then the chip will obviously reject the power good signal and shut the computer down!
And what's worse is that looking at the schematics below, Pin 20 is directly connected to the main power supply of the CPU, so this means that your CPU's power supply is shorted!
Before concluding the board or the ADP3421 chip as faulty, remove the CPU and see if it is shorted any longer. If you are lucky you can just be dealing with a dead CPU.
Note that if you do this you get the exact same behaviour as blink of death and without a CPU installed that's normal.
https://1drv.ms/u/s!At7-rt1KJ7WviPtf0Aq ... Q?e=S07uvP
Just to verify you are not measuring the wrong pins, measure resistance on the capacitor labelled C805 in the top view image on this thing (it's the big black capacitors right beside the CPU socket, all 5 of them are connected with each other so doesn't matter which one you measure). One side of those capacitors is connected to that Pin 20 and the other side is to ground.
It is entirely possible one of those capacitors is bad too but it might not be very easy to determine.
Maybe remove the CPU and connect a 1.5V AA/AAA battery to the capacitor to see what gets hot (and that's the only way you know what's shorting out the rail). Be CAREFUL about the polarity in this case as reversing it kills the entire board full stop. The plus side is denoted on the motherboard itself and the capacitor also has a stripe on that side (this is DIFFERENT than the circular capacitors where the stripe side is negative) Do not exceed 1.75V!
If nothing gets hot, try putting the CPU back and turning the system on with the battery attached like that and see if you still have the bod.
viewtopic.php?t=47660
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Re: t21 not turning on probably bod
cpu should be ok since it sometimes starts and worked for hours (i left it on the first times to see if it would fix itself)
i dont wanna ruin the board since i have no experience in such stuff.
if i find someone wich replaces the chip will it work or it will be a waste of money?
i dont wanna ruin the board since i have no experience in such stuff.
if i find someone wich replaces the chip will it work or it will be a waste of money?
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Re: t21 not turning on probably bod
Well then I suppose the next time the board came on, check on the 5 big capacitors beside the CPU (if it is not blocked by the heatsink) to see if there is a capacitor significantly hotter than the others. If so, simply cutting one side of the capacitor off the motherboard might just fix the board (because in that case you just have a dead capacitor and you don't need all 5 of the capacitors to work).fiat682 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:55 pmcpu should be ok since it sometimes starts and worked for hours (i left it on the first times to see if it would fix itself)
i dont wanna ruin the board since i have no experience in such stuff.
if i find someone wich replaces the chip will it work or it will be a waste of money?
Well the problem is that if you cannot know whether it's the capacitors or the chip itself faulty, spending all the hassle to replace the chip can be a total waste of time (as for a capacitor fault as I said before you can fix it with a razor knife).
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Re: t21 not turning on probably bod
I dont know if T21 is effected with same problems which T23 has but take a look in the links below. i had a non-booting T23 motherboard and re-soldering mentioned components on motherboard got it back to life. i dont know how to solder either, i took the motherboard to TV & Radio repair guy and he soldered for me.
https://thinkwiki.de/T23_Spulenbilder
https://www.ozzu.com/hardware/ibm-think ... 55332.html
https://thinkwiki.de/T23_Spulenbilder
https://www.ozzu.com/hardware/ibm-think ... 55332.html
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Re: t21 not turning on probably bod
Those are coils for the different power supply sections of the motherboard. I had that once on a T43 motherboard that I had baked in an oven to deal with the GPU failure. I don't think T22 has this problem.blackop wrote: ↑Fri Oct 02, 2020 11:35 amI dont know if T21 is effected with same problems which T23 has but take a look in the links below. i had a non-booting T23 motherboard and re-soldering mentioned components on motherboard got it back to life. i dont know how to solder either, i took the motherboard to TV & Radio repair guy and he soldered for me.
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Re: t21 not turning on probably bod
Just wanted to report that I ordered a batch of new ADP3420 chips along with 2.2k resistors and I had 3 BOD thinkpads (T20, T21 and T22).
I pretty easily (with flux, capston tape and a heat gun) removed the ADP3420 chips and re-soldered new ones on. No change. Removed and re-soldered many times, and checked each leg to pad using continuity and a microscope to confirm my soldering was good. No change.
I soldered the resistor onto the legs required. No change. Apart from when you hit the power button you get a tiny 'click' from the resistor as well as the blink.
Seems like a massive waste of time to me. A time bomb model that is not worth much (when the T23 is most powerful and suffers none of these issues). I watched a guy on youtube do the same as me and got the same result.
Those forums threads online of these mods being a definitive fix seem a bit overblown to me.
I pretty easily (with flux, capston tape and a heat gun) removed the ADP3420 chips and re-soldered new ones on. No change. Removed and re-soldered many times, and checked each leg to pad using continuity and a microscope to confirm my soldering was good. No change.
I soldered the resistor onto the legs required. No change. Apart from when you hit the power button you get a tiny 'click' from the resistor as well as the blink.
Seems like a massive waste of time to me. A time bomb model that is not worth much (when the T23 is most powerful and suffers none of these issues). I watched a guy on youtube do the same as me and got the same result.
Those forums threads online of these mods being a definitive fix seem a bit overblown to me.
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Re: t21 not turning on probably bod
You ordered the ADP3420? I thought you have to order the ADP3421 instead, but not sure what differences there are between these chips.solidpro wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 7:51 amJust wanted to report that I ordered a batch of new ADP3420 chips along with 2.2k resistors and I had 3 BOD thinkpads (T20, T21 and T22).
I pretty easily (with flux, capston tape and a heat gun) removed the ADP3420 chips and re-soldered new ones on. No change. Removed and re-soldered many times, and checked each leg to pad using continuity and a microscope to confirm my soldering was good. No change.
I did however had a dead MMC-2 Pentium III 750Mhz module that I fixed by replacing that ADP3420 chip before.
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Re: t21 not turning on probably bod
It was one or the other, but whatever one it was it was the same as the ones I removed.... Just saying I think from mine and a few other's experience it is a waste of time...
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Wanted: 220, 315D, 320, 350x, 355x, 500, 510, 530CS, 730TE, 750P, 755CD, Any 8xx Series, A20p, A21p, A22p, A31p, T40p
Currently For Sale (Restored): 560Z, 380Z, T20, T21, T22, R61, R51
Wanted: 220, 315D, 320, 350x, 355x, 500, 510, 530CS, 730TE, 750P, 755CD, Any 8xx Series, A20p, A21p, A22p, A31p, T40p
Currently For Sale (Restored): 560Z, 380Z, T20, T21, T22, R61, R51
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