T21 recovery (win98) problems

[my03]

Hi all,

i got my "new" T21 today and it had XP installed on the HD. Naturally, i wanted to install W98 on it and so i branched out and found this recovery CD: https://archive.org/details/IBMThinkpad ... estoreDisc

After burning the ISO and trying to install it, it keeps complaining that there is "no room" for a bunch of files (my HDD is 10GB in size) and after rebooting, it tries to load up XP again but fails.

Have anyone succeeded in installing W98SE on this machine?

br

D.

[my03]

odd enough, after 4 retries installing this CD (all failing for the same reason), on the 5th try it actually worked as expected.

I have no idea why this is, but as it stand right now, W98SE is installed on my particular T21 (happy)

[cadillacmike68]

A 20-60GB HDD is is a better choice. You can back up your now working install and restore it to a larger HDD when you get the chance.

[RealBlackStuff]

The very best HDD would be an IDE 160GB 5400rpm Samsung HM160HC.

[my03]

Hey guys,

i DO have more modest requirements than running a 160GB beast on this thing

Actually i today got delivery of a 16GB industrial CF that i wanted to use, coupled to a 2.5 enclosure for CF (in the "master" slot). I use these on many machines (Toshibas mainly) ranging from 8-16GB without issues.

But this evening while i tried to use my factory restore CD for win98 against this card, it finishes the restore process alright, but when i then try to boot using it, i basically only get the blinking cursor (i.e it won't boot the OS).

The bios (i enabled the "diagnostics" section) seems to be the latest (1.16 - based on Phoenix 4.0 i see now also) but nowhere in there is some menu for deciding on HDD mode or similar...

Do i need to prepare this card outside of the machine (i.e making it bootable using win98 boot disk, then move the W98 install files over and do it manually somehow)?

I tried by first formatting the entire thing as fat32 (fail). Then i tried to partition it into 10 + 5GB parts (fat32) - neither option will boot it.

[SMA]

Hi

Your situation is similar to viewtopic.php?f=2&t=133524

Most likely, your adapter needs to be jumpered for 'Cable Select',
but unfortunately, your adapter may not support that.

If you adapter is in an enclosed I would like to know which one that is, please.

I have started working on a modification to my IDE44/CF adapter to make it support Cable Select.
Basically, I believe that it is just a matter of soldering in a wire from the IDE connector
pin 28 to the CF connectors pin 39 (-CSEL signal).

I haven't tried it yet so take it for what it is.

[my03]

Hi SMA,

oh, this is a highly interesting thread you shared. I did not actually think that the cable select played a role, but i guess it does here. I will read it through now. Thanks

The adapter that i tested was the "Syba dual CF"

https://www.amazon.com/Syba-Compact-Ada ... B0036DDXUM

(i use this in a Toshiba Libretto 110ct as well as in a Toshiba 480CDT without too much hassle. Due to some minor "quirks", i needed to make a bit of special partitioning on the 110CT as it basically reserves a bit of space between the 8GB-8.25GB section of the disk for its own purposes for some odd reason).

When i boot it (i assume, perhaps wrong, that since it is of the industrial kind, it wont broadcast itself as a removable unit, but rather as a fixed hdd to the host computer) the T21 do detect it in the bios info, but it won't boot. But at least now i know where to start digging.

Thanks again

br

[RealBlackStuff]

i DO have more modest requirements than running a 160GB beast on this thing

This 'beast' is cheaper than the 'insect' you are trying now.
Plus it has a lot more room for other OSes/programs/pictures/games/etc.

[SMA]

Hi again

Thanks for letting me know what adapter you have been testing.

Today, after having done the modification I mentioned earlier,
I managed to boot a Thinkpad 600 from my IDE44/CF adapter in a UltraSlimBay HDD adapter (HDD2).

So, now I am even more convinced that your problems are also related to the absence of a Cable Select option.

Technically it will not be possible to have both drives as Cable Select in a dual adapter.
So, your CF slots are most likely hardwired - one as master the other as slave.

[my03]

Hi again

Thanks for letting me know what adapter you have been testing.

Today, after having done the modification I mentioned earlier,
I managed to boot a Thinkpad 600 from my IDE44/CF adapter in a UltraSlimBay HDD adapter (HDD2).

So, now I am even more convinced that your problems are also related to the absence of a Cable Select option.

Technically it will not be possible to have both drives as Cable Select in a dual adapter.
So, your CF slots are most likely hardwired - one as master the other as slave.

Hey, no problem. And congratulations that you succeeded

If i understand it correctly, you did it on a single CF adapter (i.e master only)? is this the case?

In my case, having this dual adapter, i guess i'm not really able to duplicate what you did (i could basically bodge-wire pin 28->39)?

Did you use a full-size 2.5 enclosure or was it more of a surgery (opening it up and inserting a small adapter)?

[my03]

i DO have more modest requirements than running a 160GB beast on this thing

This 'beast' is cheaper than the 'insect' you are trying now.
Plus it has a lot more room for other OSes/programs/pictures/games/etc.

I hear you. I DO have some heavy artillery around (2.5 ide enclosure for m-sata + 256GB msata ssd), but i also do wonder if this machine can cope with that capacity + if i ever going to use that space in this machine

But i'm almost tempted to try

(but of course, before that, it would be wise to get to know what the machine will actually see as the maximum drive size)

for the moment, i have chickened out and ordered a 2.5 ide, 16GB unit from Aliexpress.

edit. i tried installing the 256GB m-sata just now and while the machine recognizes it during boot, it won't boot up using it. Perpahs this is the CSEL issue?

[SMA]

To avoid hijacking your thread, with my adapter modification, I'd better open a new one (some day),
but that may take some time as more testing is needed.

This is the one I have modified https://www.delock.com/produkte/G_91655 ... anguage=en

I feel tempted to getting a dual adapter like yours. I like the enclosure, and
being able to install the drive without having to open the computer would be nice.

I think that it may be possible to modify your adapter so that one of the cf slots will be cable select.
The drawback is that that may cause the adapter to no longer work with you other laptops.

I believe that you can use any adapter as long as it supports Cable Select.
(My ide44/mSata adapter came jumpered for Cable Select)

[my03]

Hi SMA,

yeah, i do have one of the same (i believe) adapters unopened



My only issue in this case is that the T21 would be lot more difficult machine to open up enough to use this adapter, hence why the 2.5 enclosure would be more easy in many ways.

I have a few of these 2.5 enclosures and would not mind "reserving" one of them for the T21 (in my case). I guess i can always try the 28-39 pin wiring trick to see if that makes a difference as well. I'll try to get the courage for it during the upcoming weekend

[my03]

....

[my03]

Status update,

so i got some good feedback in this retro-FB group i'm in, basically:

"if your CF adapter has a master + slave slot and you install from the CD, then you might have issues from that"...

I guess thats true. So i tried to burn the restore-CD onto a smaller CF that i had, and then plugged that into the slave slot of the adapter (the 16GB one in the master slot) and tried to boot from the slave. While the machine told me about MBA, etc it finally told me that the unit was not bootable at all. So i redid the whole thing, this time putting the bootable CF in the master slot and the 16GB dito in the slave one, but it told me the same thing.

So out of pure desperation (knowing the hardships involved in adding the needed add-ons from this forum) i tossed my 98 installation CD in, made sure that the 16GB CF was put in the master position of the ide adapter and rebooted. Surprisingly, everything went smooth as butter this time. No issues at all. After installing, the machine boots up perfectly fine into Win98. Granted, it does not have sound working, neither has it proper graphics (its on 640-480/16), so i guess i'll have to bite the sour apple and follow our fellow member Edward here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=132493

But at least i know it works (and will sort itself out using that guide) and with the help of this superb collection of drivers available here:

https://thinkpads.com/support/Thinkpad- ... m/T21.html

From where i did get great help installing graphics & audio. I still have a few items in the control panel showing the exclamation mark but i think they are basically non-vital issues overall.

[SMA]

I am glad to hear about your success.

My modified adapter didn't work in a T21. I tried several different cards. It's behaviour is unpredictable.

I hope that yours will continue to work

[my03]

Thanks SMA,

i hope you get your setup sorted also soon

I will give feedback here if the adapter in use here will suddenly fail to work properly for sure.

br