T30 crash but PC DOCTOR says "No error"

[iseron]

Hi.
my model: T30
Type: 2366 -91G

Background:
I bought this one in a 2nd hand store (http://www.itsco.de/) here in Germany where i live now.

JAN 10th 2006 : I have this notebook from this date and in the beginning worked very fast and very reliable. One issue was the battery that only lasted for 26 min! I asked for a new one and the people from ITSCO sent me a "new" one.. that last 35 min. Then i didn’t want to complain again because here in Germany the customer worth nothing in comparison the USA and i spent too much time trying to speak in German ...

MARCH : the hard disk began to sound weird like the disk was touching something in the inside. I was aware but i didn’t measure anything.

MAY : In may the 1st I began to do a SMART analysis of the hdd because the speed of the computer was much more slower. I didn’t complain again because the "nice" customer service from ITSCO. But i was storing proves for the future trial in case of warranty. In germany they made some kind of trial because you have to probe that was broken randomly with lawyer and all the stuff.. again..customer is the last thing.

JUNE : the THINKLIGHT didn’t work anymore and i don’t know why. I though some cable was disconnected but i didnt have the guts to open the computer and check by myself. I use my computer only in the office and home and i have a very good bag for transportation. So i don’t know why didn’t work anymore.

AUGUST : And. the GRAND finale. Was in august the 2nd.
Suddenly my wireless card SITECOM Wl-112 began to ask me for drivers. And when reinstalled manually it said that was out of resources (IRQs) . It very strange...So i decided to erase the winxp completely and reinstall all again with the same error. Then i used the LAN cable for internet and was fine.

AUGUST 4th: the hard disk began to sound VERY WEIRD now and even with pauses when loading winXP. And strange clicks. Also began the system to crash, freezing the LCD screen and then coming slowly to a plain color.


Actual view of the notebook.


Problem pict 1 ( random crash pict)


Problem pict 2 ( random crash pict)


Problem pict 3 ( random crash pict)


AUGUST 5th to 23 th : DIAGNOSTICS.

I made an update of ALL the BIOS. Motherboard, embedded controller system and hard drive bios.

I run PC DOCTOR and NO problems were detected as exception of a hard disk error in the LINEAR SURFACE TEST.

RAM TEST: With memtestx86, Microsoft mem test and with PCDOCTOR were OK; NO ERRORS

System board test: PCDOCTOR--> no errors

AUGUST 24th: I decided to buy a new hard disk and try what
happen. Also more RAM was the idea.

The disk: 80GB Samsung MP0804H ( the salesman recommend me this one instead of a Fujitsu MHT2080AT 80GB because he said it is better and more reliable. i accepted the offer)

The RAM: 512MB, DDR SO-Dimm, 200Pin, PC 266. WAS NOT RECOGNIZED. Only if i take out the original ram that came in the slot Nr1 and change it.

AUGUST 25th: I promptly reinstalled everything, new WINXP.AGAin the WIFI Card had trouble with the installation and was not possible to use it again. So i changed to an USB WIFI CARD SITECOM WL-117 and began again the Crashes.


NOTE: IF i keep with more ventilation the area near the CPU the system is more stable, maybe 30 min without a crash.

NOTE 2: I’ve heard that there is a well know problem in the motherboards RAM slots, and also exists a "service bulletin" about this issue.
Thread: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=13262

OK... WHAT CAN I DO?

WHERE CAN I CALL HERE IN GERMANY TO ASK FOR A SOLUTION INSTEAD ITSCO THE GERMAN COMPANY WHO DONT GIVE SUPPORT?

The CRASH ARE RANDOM, maybe after 1 min after the boot or after 20 min of work.

[ronbo613]

Perhaps a problem with the power supply?

[rkawakami]

Several questions:

1) When the laptop 'crashes' with a partially visible desktop, do you still have control of the keyboard? In other words, can you either see the mouse pointer move and/or does the laptop respond to an ALT-F4 (close current window) command?

2) Also, when the display gets scrambled on the LCD panel, have you tried attaching an external monitor? Use the Fn+F7 key sequence to activate the VGA port. There are three selections available with this keystoke: LCD only, external only, both LCD and external active.

3) Have you run the Video Adapter test from the Diagnostics menu of PC Doctor? If you execute the "Run Normal Test" option, that test should be run. However, if you have only run the Systemboard, Fixed Disks and Memory tests separately, then you have not checked the video memory.

4) Have you tried running the interactive Video test in PC Doctor? I believe that the test is available with the T30 version of PC Doc and may cover additional modes of the video card that the 'normal' test does not.

5) PC Doctor has the ability to loop a particular test many times in order to stress the system (i.e. raise the temperature). For example, if you select the CPU/Coprocessor test and see the list of the dozen or so tests you can run, at the bottom of that screen there is "F2=options". Pressing the F2 key will pop-up a Test Options menu where you can then select the "Set Pass Count" option. This allows you to specify how many times that test will be repeated.

6) Have you run PC Doctor's Fixed Disks diagnostic on the new 80GB drive? If so, any errros?

7) Which version of memtest86 are you using? The one I have been using is memtest86+ v1.65. There have been many versions of this program over the years but I've found this one to correlate well with other memory testers.

The reason I ask these questions is that it appears to me that you may have a couple of unrelated problems:

The Linear Verify test result seems to say that you have/had a problem with the original disk drive. The new drive should pass all tests assuming that the system is stable enough (i.e. you aren't having main memory issues).

From looking at the pictures you posted, there may be a problem with the video memory, which is separate from the main memory. The 'crash' (scrambled video display), if it is just related to the video memory, should still allow you to control the laptop enough to shut it down (ALT-F4, then press the "U" key if the Windows shutdown box appears).

The main memory issue you quoted in the "service bulletin" link is well-known. It's still possible that your system has this problem even after the three programs you've tried all reported passing results. This is especially true if you say that the new memory is not seen when placed in a particular slot. Try running the memory diagnostics on one memory module at a time and repeat the test by moving the module to the other slot.

Another diagnostic tool you can try is to download the MobileMeter program. This little application can display the readings from temperature sensors within the laptop. You can find this program here:

http://www.geocities.co.jp/SiliconValley-Oakland/8259/

The download link is at the top of the page. This will give you an idea if your system temperature is part of the problem.

[Berny]

@iseron: i don't understand what your problem is. looks like at least your mainboard is faulty, so return the whole computer to ITSCO. According to their website they give 1 year full warranty, even on used machines. and unless you haven't fooled around with your thinkpad there shouldn't be a problem.
Call 'em first. make an appointment. write a letter with your observations. send 'em your thinkpad. let 'em fix it. that's all.

in Germany the customer worth nothing in comparison the USA and i spent too much time trying to speak in German ...

BTW: if you don't like it in germany, why don't you leave?

[iseron]

Berny:

I put here the previous email to ITSCO.
Where did you found the 1 year warranty?

I should show them with facts that was bad the notebook... But HOW? Tell me.
I really made a big EFFORT for not complaining about warranty, i really try to do my best for correct the errors but at the end i was forced to ask for it.

Man i´m finishing and MBA at the moment thats why i´m in Germany (Stuttgart). I like Germany but i dont like the customer service the companies usually deliver. Is the reality even with my GERMAN colleages confirm me my questions about. All who have lived abroad in the USA and other places.

I dont want to fight about this.. lets do a constructive discussion.
MfG


PS: WHAT DO YOU RECCOMEND ME FOR MAKE A WARRANTY VALID IN GERMANY? ( I don´t have any experience here)

ITSCO Kundenteam an mich
23. Aug. (Vor 6 Tagen)

Sehr geehrte Damen und Herren,

wir bedauern Ihre Unzufriedenheit bezgl. des von uns bezogenen Gerätes.
Sie reklamierten allerdings erst außerhalb der Übernahmegarantie.
Eine Gewährleistung ist in Ihrem Fall auszuschließen.
Gem. unserer AGBs hat der Kunde in Übereinstimmung mit den geltenden Gesetzen eine Gewährleistungsfrist von einem Jahr.

Die Beweislast liegt in den ersten sechs Monaten bei dem Verkäufer, in den zweiten sechs Monaten bei dem Käufer.

TRANSLATION : The burden of proof lies in the first six months with the salesman, in the second six months with the buyer. SO I MUST PROVE THAT IS BROKEN NOT BECAUSE MY FAULT.

Umkehrung der Beweislast § 476 BGB:
Zeigt sich innerhalb von sechs Monaten seit Gefahrübergang ein Sachmangel, so wird vermutet, dass die Sache bereits bei Gefahrübergang mangelhaft war, es sei denn, diese Vermutung ist mit der Art der Sache oder des Mangels unvereinbar.

Eine Gewährleistung ist in Ihrem Fall auszuschließen, da der Gefahrübergang der Ware mehr als sechs Monate beträgt.

Wir bedauern Ihnen keinen anderen Bescheid zukommen lassen zu können, hoffen allerdings auf Ihr Verständnis.


Mit freundlichem Gruß
Ihr ITSCO Team
RMA Abteilung
****************************************
ITSCO GmbH
Zwoller Str. 10-12
Postfach 12 23
49716 Meppen-Versen
Tel.: +49 (0) 5935 9323-0
Fax.: +49 (0) 5935 9323-21
http://www.itsco.de
rma@itsco.de

ITSCO® ─ Second Hand Computer Trading


Von: [mailto:iseron @ .....]
Gesendet: Dienstag, 22. August 2006 13:21
An: ITSCO Kundenteam; ITSCO Kundenteam
Betreff: IBM T30 hard disk problem

- Zitierten Text ausblenden -
Dear Itsco.

i want to know which procedure i must do because it seems the hard drive of the notebook IBM t30 i bought to you is failing.

The symptoms began 4 months ago but i took lot of care in the notebook. But now is almost impossible to work, it have strange sounds and crash the windows always after some minutes.

I tried the IBM diagnostics CD and all the test works fine but the hard drive sounds strange. Anyway no error is returned.

My KundenNr: 21710
RechnungsNr: 25935
Datum: 21-12-2005

Also i send a powerpoint presentation for explain what is going on with the computer.

What can i do?

[danage]

this is ridiculous. for one thing, the interpretation of named paragraph is highly disputed. secondly, you will be able to prove that the machine was faulty. it is a common problem in thinkpads, no judge will believe your seller it wasnt faulty.

at any rate: send them a deadline to fix it or send you a new machine (your choice) RIGHT NOW (important). threaten them with that you are going to get a lawyer. i would get one right now if i were you.

[iseron]

Answers to rkawakami

TEMPERATURE : I put the temp sofware and i run SANDRA in burn mode and the max temp was 60°C. So i think is not an issue.

1) When crashes i dont have control with the keyboard

2) With a monitor attached does not work the keyboard.

3) Have you run the Video Adapter test from the Diagnostics menu of PC Doctor? --> Run without problems

4) Have you tried running the interactive Video test in PC Doctor? --> Run without problems

5) PC Doctor has the ability to loop a particular test many times --> Mainboard 30 times without any problem

6) Have you run PC Doctor's Fixed Disks diagnostic on the new 80GB drive? If so, any errros? --> NO ERRORS

7) Which version of memtest86 are you using? The one I have been using is memtest86+ v1.65. --> NO PROBLEMS IN RAM !


8 ) AC ADAPTER PROBLEM? ---> PC doctor said is OK

Questions:

1) Why the ThinkLight don´t work anymore? Can be a motherboard problem? Or just the led is burn?

2) Why if installed the POWER MANAGEMENT DRIVER, dont show the classical icon of the battery, The green Charge Metter .

3) Why when installed the PCMCI card Work good the first time and then is not anymore recognized by the system?

4)Which is the real SPEED OF THE CPU?? IN the Japanese software of temperature shows 1.20 ghz. SANDRA also shows 1.2 ghz but 1,8 ghz in the CPU MODEL.

[iseron]

Video showing exactly when the computer crash.

Ex with some Jamiroquai + Winamp and render animations of the music.

CPU TEMP: 54°C

The screen flicker more than the normal when the startup.

I should put ventilation in the video Chipset?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTIDOIEcBW0

[rkawakami]

1) Why the ThinkLight don´t work anymore? Can be a motherboard problem? Or just the led is burn?

Most likely the LED is burned out. Hard to say without testing it with a meter.

2) Why if installed the POWER MANAGEMENT DRIVER, dont show the classical icon of the battery, The green Charge Metter .

Not sure, but could be related to motherboard issue or question #4.

3) Why when installed the PCMCI card Work good the first time and then is not anymore recognized by the system?

Again, possibly motherboard problem, OS problem or PCMCIA card cage defect.

4)Which is the real SPEED OF THE CPU?? IN the Japanese software of temperature shows 1.20 ghz. SANDRA also shows 1.2 ghz but 1,8 ghz in the CPU MODEL.

Maximum speed of your model is 1.8Ghz. That is assuming you are running at "maximum performance" settings in both BIOS and OS. If you are using "maximum battery" setting, then the processor speed steps down to a slower clock rate to save on battery power. It could do this even if you are running with the AC adapter. This is called SpeedStep technology. I would trust SANDRA, MobileMeter and CPU-Z reports over Windows System Properties page.

[iseron]

After the questions of RAKAWAMI about the temperature i was looking how to manage the FAN of the notebook and i found this:

http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/How_to_control_fan_speed

This is more intended for Linux, but also exists an application for windows that i use for leave the fan at maximun speed just for test and control the temperature of the CPU steady in 39°C

Picture Interface here.
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/1406 ... ventil.jpg