T23 graphics chip powerful enough to run 20" widescreen

Message

dsigma6 · #1 Post by **dsigma6** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:35 am

I wanted to give my T23 LCD a vacation, so I'm looking at 19-20" widescreen LCD's. Does anyone have experience with a T23, or any other ThinkPad with only 16MB video memory? I have a feeling it may tax the little bugger a bit too much.

Thinkpaddict · #2 Post by **Thinkpaddict** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:03 pm

You should be fine depending on the actual resolution of the monitor, but you can check at IBM's site for published capabilities. The reason why I say that you should be fine is that 16 Mb of memory is quite a bit more than it sounds

For example, an X21 can drive about 800,000 pixels with a mere 4Mb graphics card. Assuming your 20'' is 1400X1050 pixels, that is less than twice 800,000, so logic would dictate that you could drive such a monitor with just 8Mb VRAM. Another factor to consider is bit depth.
Do you need 24 or 32 bits per pixel, or can you get by with 16. In most situations 16 bits per pixel is perfectly adequate, and you wouldn't notice any real difference.

But, most importantly, the specific resolution of the monitor you want to drive must be supported by the graphics card driver. So, actually, that should be the first thing you have to check. Also check for updated driver versions and third party drivers, and you might have more options.

dsigma6 · #3 Post by **dsigma6** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:27 pm

Thanks- I hadn't pinned down an exact model yet, so I don't have all the specs. I've used the T23 with a 17" crt, but that wasn't a big deal. I had a feeling I would need to use lower resolution, but hopefully this can support at least 24. The X21 comparison is very helpful!

#4 Post by **rkawakami** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:50 pm

FYI: A 1400x1050 (SXGA+) T23 I have lists the following maximum resolutions in Display Properties:

1400 x 1050 x 32 bit
1280 x 1024 x 32 bit
1024 x 768 x 32 bit
800 x 600 x 32 bit

Changing the color depth at 1400 x 1050 from 32 bit to 16 doesn't increase the screen resolution. This is using the following driver:

S3 Graphics SuperSavage/IXC 1014
Date: 1/23/2003
Version: 6.13.10.1290

I suppose it's possible with a newer driver that decreasing the color depth to 16 bits could allow for a larger resolution but I haven't bothered to search for it.

edit: DUH! I just realized that you are talking about EXTERNAL monitors.... seesh... old age is getting to me

Here's the results from an external Sharp LCD:

1600 x 1200 x 32 bits

Changing to 16 bits does NOT result in an increase in resolution.

chan_man · #5 Post by **chan_man** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 3:19 pm

Actually, a T23 should perform well on a 19 or 20" screen. 20" screen will be 1600x1200 (4:3) or 19"1280x1024 (4:3). I have a T22 driving a 24" wide screen. The native resolution of the display is 1920x1200 but the drivers on the T23 can only drive 1600x1200 so the image is stretched.

Dummvogel · #6 Post by **Dummvogel** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 3:39 pm

1280x1024 is 5:4, not 4:3.

Sidenote: Because of this, you should not use this Resolution for a CRT. Instead use 1280x960.

Thinkpaddict · #7 Post by **Thinkpaddict** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 4:29 pm

rkawakami wrote: Changing to 16 bits does NOT result in an increase in resolution.

Thanks for the pointer. Geesh! Driver programmers sure are getting lazy.

Ray, would you mind commenting on the picture quality at the 1600x1200 resolution that you mention? Do you use the built-in connector? Can you use it in a dual configuration (both builtin and external LCD), and with different desktops on each screen? If you haven't tried this, just commenting on the picture quality would be great. Thanks in advance...

Ruben

Thinkpaddict · #8 Post by **Thinkpaddict** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 4:30 pm

dsigma6 wrote:Thanks- I hadn't pinned down an exact model yet, so I don't have all the specs. I've used the T23 with a 17" crt, but that wasn't a big deal. I had a feeling I would need to use lower resolution, but hopefully this can support at least 24. The X21 comparison is very helpful!

Yes, 4Mb VRAM is not that bad really! I love my X21

dsigma6 · #9 Post by **dsigma6** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:21 pm

I'm looking at the cheapy models on newegg, ~$200. Both models I looked at were 1440x900, 19".

edit: Of course now I see that these models, as a tradeoff with price, are only XGA. Does that mean the image will look like my current 14.1 XGA, just stretched out?

#10 Post by **rkawakami** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:24 pm

Thinkpaddict wrote:Ray, would you mind commenting on the picture quality at the 1600x1200 resolution that you mention? Do you use the built-in connector? Can you use it in a dual configuration (both builtin and external LCD), and with different desktops on each screen? If you haven't tried this, just commenting on the picture quality would be great. Thanks in advance...

I'm at work at the moment so I can't use the Sharp LCD that I mentioned earlier (and I can't remember if it will even handle 1600x1200). Connecting the T23 to a Viewsonic P775 via the laptop's video port yields a fairly decent picture. Of course I have to use a magnifying glass on the icon titles, but that's my problem, not yours (yet

). Attempting to run both screens at the same time causes the external display to go blank (i.e. LCD panel at 1400x1050x32 = no external video at 1600x1200x32). However, if I drop the external color depth to 16 bits, both displays can be active. In playing with this here's what I've found:

With the native resolution of the laptop's LCD left at 1400x1050x16 bits and both displays active at the same time, the external display appears to be 1280x1024 as the desktop scrolls around when the mouse is moved to the bottom and right sides. It also allows for each display to be active separately and together (toggling through the Fn+F7 settings).

If the color depth of the LCD is set to 32 bits, then both displays cannot be active at the same time.

The external monitor can be set to 1600x1200x32 as long as the LCD is not active. Switching between them also limited to only one display active at a time (even though the on-screen display says both should be active and there is only two Fn+F7 settings and not the normal three).

Enabling the "Extend my Windows desktop onto this monitor" option does appear to work correctly with the external monitor set to 1600x1200x16. The mouse exits the LCD panel on the right side and appears on the external monitor on the left. Moving the mouse pointer from the lower right corner of the LCD (1400x1050) directly right causes the pointer to appear on the external monitor above the bottom of the screen, indicating it's at 1600.

It took me several minutes to figure out how to do a dual monitor setup, aka being able to have a browser on the external monitor and Word on the LCD. The trick is to minimize the program to an icon (or not have it maximized) on the desktop, drag it across to the external monitor and then maximize it. So, yes this DOES work correctly. I think I'm going to keep this T23

.

Hope all of this makes sense...

Thinkpaddict · #11 Post by **Thinkpaddict** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:02 pm

It makes perfect sense. Thanks for the detailed review! Actually, you make me want to get a big external monitor and setup a nice dual screen setup around my T23

It is just amazing how useful the T23 has remained after all these years.

#12 Post by **rkawakami** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:46 pm

dsigma6 wrote:Does that mean the image will look like my current 14.1 XGA, just stretched out?

My (limited) understanding of this issue is that, maybe it will be stretched. I think it really has to do with how the monitor handles non-native resolutions. If the signal being received by the monitor does not match the resolution of the panel, the monitor manufacturer has the option of stretching the image to fill up all of the available pixels or simply "letterboxing" the picture. Since you are considering a widescreen panel, it won't follow the 4:3 aspect ratio of conventional CRTs or LCDs. Your bet best would be to take your T23 down to your local Best Buy, Fry's, Circuit City, etc. and ask if you could plug into some of their display models. In order to see how bad the distortion is for "stretched" screens, do this:

1) Open up the Paint program (Programs/Accessories/Paint).
2) Under Image/Attributes set the width and height to the size that the external monitor is supposed to support. Drag the scroll bars to the center of their ranges in order to place the center of the image into the drawing window.
3) Draw a perfect circle by selecting the Ellipse tool and then holding down the Shift key and dragging out the circle.
4) Click on View/View Bitmap to view the circle full-screen.
5) Connect the external monitor and see how good/bad the image is.

It may also help to see if you can find the latest drivers for the S3 SuperSavage chipset since it's possible that widescreen resolutions may have been added.

BlueDevilTide · #13 Post by **BlueDevilTide** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:21 pm

Very informative topic, similar interests myself vis a vis widescreen external LCD, so thanks rkawakami!

chan_man · #14 Post by **chan_man** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:09 am

Dummvogel wrote:1280x1024 is 5:4, not 4:3.

Sidenote: Because of this, you should not use this Resolution for a CRT. Instead use 1280x960.

Thanks for the correction, as for 1280x960, this is not one of the normal choices given in the display tab. I do have a 19" CRT that is used at 1280x102 and the image is fine, never checked circles on it though.

T23 graphics chip powerful enough to run 20" widescreen

T23 graphics chip powerful enough to run 20" widescreen

Who is online