T30 motherboard problem?

[vlyne]

Danage,

I may be off the track but your "solution" is not inconsistent with the problem at hand. On startup the CMOS program checks all devices and if there are problems with the RAM, HD, internet card or whatever that gets checked I suspect it won't boot. By draining the CMOS, this bootup process seems to be more robust to problems (I'm guessing because the non-volatile BIOS takes over the process). These problems appear to be some kind of a loss in the signal from the problematic device to the CMOS program. So, it could be any of the devices including but not limited to the RAM. That's why I think taking off the various cards is a recommended procedure for debugging. So, yes improving the contact of the RAM chips in the memory slot may work.

Darkdragoon: The only reason I say HD is because of your observation that it always boots up if the HD light is lit during the bootup process ( But, it could be some other device that gets checked before the HD).

So, I'm guessing that cleaning contacts, a fully charged battery and possibly temperature (warmer better) may help. The worrying part is that if there are any internal problems that are causing signal/voltage loss (such as conductive dirt, moisture and corrosion) this could cause problems. A good MB clean is probably not a bad idea.

As for taking the T30 apart, all I can say is "No pain, no gain"
Cheers

[darkdragoon]

danage

Thank you for the tip and a very clean explaination, however I have to say its a little risky for me.

vlyne

I purchased a new CMOS battery for a very cheap price and guess what, it wasnt the issue, and removing CMOS battery doesnt work no more, its not booting again.

OK, back to the drawing board. Oh yeah "no pain no gain". Taking apart the T30 was a very fun thing to do actually.

[danage]

I may be off the track but your "solution" is not inconsistent with the problem at hand.

I don't exactly understand... :)

On startup the CMOS program checks all devices and if there are problems with the RAM, HD, internet card or whatever that gets checked I suspect it won't boot. By draining the CMOS, this bootup process seems to be more robust to problems (I'm guessing because the non-volatile BIOS takes over the process).

Sorry please don't be offended but this is not entirely accurate. First off, there is no such thing as a CMOS program. CMOS is a type of memory that stores data. CMOS needs power to retain its data (unlike flash memory) and therefore the battery. When you remove it, the CMOS gets erased and will be restored to default values by the BIOS (the first program that starts when you turn on the computer) the next time you boot. Once the system is started, the CMOS is powered out of the computers' general power supply. The CMOS battery is not essential for the computer to work. It only serves the purpose of retaining data.

These problems appear to be some kind of a loss in the signal from the problematic device to the CMOS program.

I think what you are trying to say is that one of the computers' components isn't working properly and thus corrupting the entire system. This is perfectly possible, but I think darkdragoon had tested this already to rule that out. By the way: A broken memory MODULE would make the system beep at startup.

The only reason I say HD is because of your observation that it always boots up if the HD light is lit during the bootup process

The HD light always comes on during POST (Power On Self Test) and will also light during the booting process, since it contains the operating system.

Darkdragoon: If you consider your mainboard broken, I recommend you try my fix. Look at it, it's actually no big deal. Certainly much lesser surgery than taking the whole T30 apart. The metal arms can be bent back if so desired.

[vlyne]

Sorry please don't be offended.....The CMOS battery is not essential for the computer to work. It only serves the purpose of retaining data.

No offence taken as we're all here to learn and live. You're right there's only one "boot program" as such but a number of modes in which it can operate. If the CMOS is erased it operates in some sort of base mode that refreshes the CMOS and that mode seems to be a more robust mode. I'm struggling to understand why that might be the case but that's the empirical observation from the field. One of the "triggers" for the modes is the state of the CMOS memory.

what you are trying to say is that one of the computers' components isn't working properly and thus corrupting the entire system. This is perfectly possible, but I think darkdragoon had tested this already to rule that out. By the way: A broken memory MODULE would make the system beep at startup.

At the risk of sounding like Rumsfeld there are many ways in which components may not work "properly". There are many examples in this and other forums where a component not working properly prevents the system from booting up. Yes, a completely dead or absent memory module should result in a beep but again there are examples where there's no beep on startup but reseating the memory module or swapping slots/modules does allow the computer to boot up. As I understand it darkdragoon isn't getting the dead memory beep on startup but yet your observation is that the memory contacts may be at fault.

[vlyne]

I purchased a new CMOS battery for a very cheap price and guess what, it wasnt the issue, and removing CMOS battery doesnt work no more, its not booting again.

One thing you could try is:

Take off the new CMOS battery and do the CMOS power drain trick before trying to reboot (take off all power and repeatedly press power-on button).

If that doesn't work the problem is some intermittent electronic contact issue so you're back to square one again. But, a number of things have been learnt from this example and it's good you had some fun in taking the T30 apart.

[darkdragoon]

danage

Darkdragoon: If you consider your mainboard broken, I recommend you try my fix. Look at it, it's actually no big deal. Certainly much lesser surgery than taking the whole T30 apart. The metal arms can be bent back if so desired.

I'm gonna need alot of courage to do this. But I appreciates for the lesssons on CMOS. It gives me a clearer picture now.

but I think darkdragoon had tested this already to rule that out. By the way: A broken memory MODULE would make the system beep at startup.

Yes I thought I would at least get an error beep or something, but the sucker wouldnt make a sound.

The HD light always comes on during POST (Power On Self Test) and will also light during the booting process, since it contains the operating system.

Actually I think I was wrong. I notice on my other T23, upon pressing on the power button, system indicator would light up but the HD indicator would lite "after" the IBM splash screen comes up which means it passes POST and BIOS is loading the OS, which also means I'm not getting any on my T30.

[darkdragoon]

vlyne

Take off the new CMOS battery and do the CMOS power drain trick before trying to reboot (take off all power and repeatedly press power-on button).

I will certainly try the trick again after a full charge on the battery.

a number of things have been learnt from this example and it's good you had some fun in taking the T30 apart

Yeah, I also hope people would be benefit from reading this.

[darkdragoon]

I just ran diagnostics program from PC-Doctor DOS Bootable CD.

Yes, the sucker does have a mind of its own, and it booted up after a few presses on the power button.

It passes most of the test except for Digital Signature Chip test.
Would it be the cause that I did not enable Secure Chip?

[danage]

You're right there's only one "boot program" as such but a number of modes in which it can operate.

Yeah, it's called the BIOS (Basic Input Output System).

If the CMOS is erased it operates in some sort of base mode that refreshes the CMOS and that mode seems to be a more robust mode.

With the BIOS settings from the CMOS erased, it starts with its default settings, which is good if something was misconfigured in the BIOS Setup Utility.

There are many examples in this and other forums where a component not working properly prevents the system from booting up. Yes, a completely dead or absent memory module should result in a beep but again there are examples where there's no beep on startup but reseating the memory module or swapping slots/modules does allow the computer to boot up.

Very true, my system is best example. The theory that I have with my issue is that in fact it's not a problem of lack of contact, but actually more a problem of a short circuit. I think the metal arms shorten some connectors on the memory modules' PCB.

As I understand it darkdragoon isn't getting the dead memory beep on startup but yet your observation is that the memory contacts may be at fault.

Yes. What I'm trying to say is that possibly not the module is at fault, but the connection thereto.

Darkdragoon: I think I might have described this in a way that makes it sound like heart surgery. I'll post a picture later. Until then, if you want to try a really nasty, but riskless fix, try sticking paper between the memory slot cover and the module (so the module gets pressed down).

[darkdragoon]

if you want to try a really nasty, but riskless fix, try sticking paper between the memory slot cover and the module (so the module gets pressed down).

danage, I will give that a go tonight and see what happens.
Thanks for the tip.

[ianf]

hope this thread is going to continue to a happy conclusion, as my t30 is behaving the same way as darkdragon .
i hope the solution will be as simple as tne t23 pulsing fan / no boot problem i will strip down and go over all the solder joints at first chance.


ianf

[darkdragoon]

ianf

I'm sorry about your T30, I guess it's going to take me a while to get to the bottom of this, and hopefully anyone who suffered this problem would have benefit from it.

For less than USD100, I was thinking to have IBM thinkpad center to diagnose the problem (chances are, its the mobo but I want to make sure) and I'll take care of the rest, since I have access to every part of thinkpads components at a very cheap price.

But guess what, I was just about to perform the sticking paper trick, I figure to reseat both RAM again and WALA!!! its been working "AGAIN" from last nite and I have not power off since..

[secret]

Hey,

Try something, hold in the 'Access IBM' before and while turning on the 'Power button' and see if it boots up.

[ianf]

just to add my tuppence i am of the opinion that it is a power related problem as when batt is at a certain level of charge they can be persuaded to start that is typical of all non running/intermittent t 20/30series, i have found that with the t30s that i have purchased dead from ebay simply resoldering all the inductors solves this problem its not a maybe ,if there are intermittent in start up ,its a fix . sorry to be blunt anyone here that has refitted these inductors can see they are flawed as there mass exceeds there fixing , these components control the manner in which the power is delivered to the m/b the permutations of the 3 lower inductors show how complex the arrangment is ,the upper smooth power to lcd panel as far as i can tell. happy to be correct on this ,but the last t30m/b i bought less than £10 inc del ,one inductor was in the bottom of the box ,solder back and up and running, just check them all! the owner must have sick went to lenovo to id ,it was just out of warranty.

ianf

[ianf]

just to add when they hibernate if there is a power prob they don't normally reawake so you have reboot and hope.

ianf