Is This A T30 Memory Slot Failure Or Something More?

[lostbaka]

So here's the rundown of events (System info at the end):

Plugged in my PSP to my T30 in USB mode and T30 froze.
Rebooted and it started to freeze at IBM splash screen.
More reboots later and some freezing inside the BIOS, I was able to get into XP Safe mode.
I gave XP control over my page file, hoping for the best.

Still freezes, usually during memory intensive applications (virus scans and backups). I haven't seen it freeze in Fedora 5 but I didn't spend much time in there either.

I've order two 512MB sticks of RAM from Crucial (was planning on doing this anyway)

I think my system has always run hot and there have been a few occasions where I've booted to a fan error.

Any thoughts?

Specs:
T30
Win XP \ Fedora 5 (Grub)
100 GB HD (not the original drive)
1.8 Ghz P4
DVD +- R\RW drive
512 MB Ram

[ianf]

hello

remove keyboard unscrew cpu heatsink/fan assembly,
get some artic silver place smallest amount on cpu die place hsf on then remove check for even spread over die if ok refit all, you will have read the threads on iffy front mem slots on t30 so best to buy a 1gig and populate the rear slot as this seems less affected , still worth doing artic silver job first, it will run cooler it also takes several hours to reach optimium effiecy the rason being the silver particles or cut as pyramids and align towards hsf. on the ram in the states you can buy 1gig sticks for less than 2 x 512.

ianf

[cparker]

I had a similar problem with a used t30 (also a 1.8 cpu) I bought for my girlfriend a few months ago. It seemed to freeze when it was doing cpu intensive things and it would get pretty hot sometimes. I installed a program I found through this forum, I think it was speedswitchxp, which can throttle the cpu so it doesn't go above 1.2 ghz or so. That seemed to have worked just fine. She hasn't had a problem since. Also I installed a temperature monitor, also written up somewhere on the forum here -- sorry, I don't have the link, but I'm sure others here do. The monitor indicated that the temperatures were normal, and the fan would turn on and off at points that were within a safe envelope. I would like to take it apart someday and do the arctic silver application as described above, but she has to use it right now at work, and I don't want to take the chance of making some mistake doing it the first time. I hope this helps. What you described was almost exactly what we were observing on our t30. Right now, it runs just fine. It's fast enough for her uses, and is completely stable. She loves it.

[lostbaka]

Well I'm too late on the memory seeing as the 2x512MB is out for delivery, according to UPS. I'll definately try the Artic Silver. I may throttle down the cpu with the suggested program just so I can run Acrontis True Image and create a more up to date backup. I would like it running at full speed for those occasional games of Half Life 2 and some basic 3d cad modeling. If it crashes at lower cpu speed then I'll be worried

thanks!

[ianf]

hello

sorry about ram, if it is a ram thing look around forum for fixes ,but i run a 2.2g in mine was an 1.8 oem, artic silver seems to help i run q4 which is demanding ( through dock) had no probs in fact if its a second hand machine the fan etc maybe cluttered with fluff,if on the other hand its very clean it may have been strip out and cleaned and someone neglected to apply thermopath ( artic silver).
gaining access to parts is not hard just make sure you have a correctly fitting driver also remove main battery and powerlead,

go to lenovo have alook at fru for your model they come apart really easily just make sure all screws are out and use minimal force .


ianf

[cparker]

One more thing. Just in case you haven't done so already, it probably would help to elevate the laptop off the table some. This would allow more fresh air to circulate into the fan intake area. What we did is to put a 1" or so paper back book in the back, to support the back edge of the t30. Then some fairly large bottle caps off of some old tylenol pill containers, which go under the two "feet" on the front of the t30. Or you could use anything else that you wish, but the pill bottle tops placed upside down work really well. Also, get that temperature monitor program. That will tell you just how hot the cpu is getting. There's a lot written on that topic in the forums here, so you might want to do a search on something like "t30 overheating" or "t30 temperature monitor". It also might be in the t40 section as well. It took me a lot of reading/searching, but it was well worth it. Oh, and be sure that you don't have your t30 configured in windows as "desktop" or "always on" (power settings). That will get it very hot. Before we did all our changes it would be extremetly hot to the touch (around the fan area). Now it's kind of luke warm, the fan cycles nicely for only a few minutes at a time. It never gets real hot and it never "freezes". This might not be necessary once you "throttle" the cpu speed, but we started doing it and it keeps the desktop from getting real hot, which then heats the air going into the fan intake, causing the t30's temperature to go up a few notches.

[lostbaka]

I received my new ram and I picked up Artic Silver from Radio Shack. I put in the new ram and the T30 booted (it's been off since my first post). Just as XP was finishing up booting, Windows error reporting asked if I want to send a report, said no cause my ethernet cable was unplugged. After which I received a blue screen which I think it was doing one of those minidumps. It rebooted to a blank on-screen and that was it. I haven't forced it to turn off it.

I haven't really investigated it the same thing would happen in Fedora\ XP Safe Mode or applied Artic Silver yet. My gut feeling is something has gone bad on the main board.

UPDATE 1: Booted into Safe Mode and turned off page file. I've been running for about 20 mins without issue. Looks like corrupted page file. True test is whether Acronis TI complete a full hard drive backup

thoughts?

[danage]

get some artic silver place smallest amount on cpu die place hsf on then remove check for even spread over die if ok refit all

I cannot concur. Heat is not an issue. Intel P4 CPU is spec'd at up to 100°C which is REALLY hard to reach. You probably have a failing memory slot, as is a common problem with the T30 series. Ianf is right, try populating only that one RAM bank and see if the problem disappears.

Edit: Also, I cannot confirm the recent threads about "inductors" coming loose. I checked all inductors on a T30 motherboard with a magnifying glass. Believe me, the solder joints are HUGE and it's very unlikely they will ever come off.
Most likely, by taking out the motherboard and putting it back in, the original creator of this "solution" has fixed some other contact issue without noticing.

[ianf]

firstly it would be prudent to check for themo path to cpu. secondly i have both variants of t30 the inductors on the underside have minimal solder contact, the upperside seem well fixed on t30 ,not so on t23 , if page file is a problem then a check of mem slots is worth a look and even worth swopping the dimms around as even when the front appears intermittent, a tighter fit will help , the cooling of the t30 is more critical than earlier varients so much so ibm fitted an inlet at the back of laptop this is vey small and will clog .unsure as to raising of inductors falling of Bottom of m/b as he boots past bios i have a fix for mem slot failure which is permanent will post when i have a spare 128 dimm to perfect this
so there will be zero debate on topic .

ianf

[danage]

you can check the cpu temp with tpfancontrol. up to 85 degrees is perfectly normal with the t30.

[lostbaka]

Looks like it was the page file. I disabled it and deleted the pagefile.sys. It appears to be running like normal. So it's running with the new 1GB ram (Crucial 2x512MB). Next is to re-enable the page file and configure the size. Any tips? (Do I start with 1.5 times my physical ram as the starting point? etc).

Heat is something I want to look deeper into (as well as a faster processor, wireless g card, and a new battery - I'm still combing through forum posts on advice for these parts). I think overheating was the cause for my first motherboard failure that happened last year or two. My T30 was still under warranty so IBM replaced the mobo and screen. I haven't applied Artic Silver yet, I haven't looked for the disassembly manual.

thanks again

[ianf]

great about ram .
heat is a real issue at higher temps you get silicon migration ? sounds like diahorria for silicon , if you have the artic it really is easy it is possible to just remove k/b but better to take bezel as well the best bit is fan only has 3 screws all the others are short or long maybe 12 ..don't muddle the 3 fan screws with the opical drive screws very similar..

ianf

just remember correct blade and finger nail force there is one screw hidden it requires the removal of optical drive you will see a 10mm dia hole in the stainless (or titanium ?) top cover the rest are obvious.and one between pcmia & hs/fan

[danage]

while i perfectly agree that "overheating" can cause damage to silicon, it does not occur on such low temperatures. why else would manufacturers specify their chips up to 100°C? i know that it is widely acclaimed by modders that "overheating" will already occur at temperatures above 60°C. from an engineering standpoint, this cannot convince. if so, t30s would be manufactured to break early. which is, of course, not the case.

at the same time, i highly doubt the effects arctic silver will have on keeping the heat down. reports in this very forum suggest that the effect is near 0, compared to the original non-silver heatconductor. if you are going to try, i am curious to hear how many degrees you could reduce it to. tpfancontrol will give you the values.

last thing to mention is that the fan is rpm controlled. did it ever occur to you that the fan went full speed? believe me, you would have noticed. to me, it almost never does. my point is: if it never ran at full speed, it was probably not getting too hot at all. with tpfancontrol you can force it to highest state so you can check what it would sound like.

believe me: heat is NOT the issue here. it's probably just the ram. it would be cool if the pagefile was the problem, but i doubt it. deleting it alters memory usage, which is most likely the reason for it not having reappeared. it is very likely it will come back sooner or later :(

[lostbaka]

There have been times in the past when all I could hear was the fan. It hasn't happened for some time though (a few months to a year) Since then I've changed what surface I use it on. If i'm on my bed, I use a stand and laptop cooler. I don't take my T30 on the road because the battery doesn't last long.

As stated earlier, everything looks to be going well with the new ram and page file disabled. I'm currently burning my HD backup to dvd and it hasn't crashed yet. If there any issues, I'll post faster than it takes XP to crash.

thanks

[danage]

shouldnt be necessary with ibm laptops. even though i have seen some t30 types that have a vent on the bottom, they are not common nor necessary. the t30 takes most air through a vent next to the pcmcia slots and through a small intake at the rear. you can even use it on a blanket with no problems.

try blocking the vent on the bottom, if you have one, with your hand while the fan is running. it won't affect it.

after all, ibm are quality makes. no cheap stuff here.

[lostbaka]

I started running NAV. Closed the lid and started watching the law and order: SVU marathon. Opened the lid back to check on the progress and saw a blank on screen.

Powered off then back on, my T30 started up with the screen off. Tried again and I was able to get back into XP. Went to re-enable the page file. Rebooted the normal way and Blue Screen error flashed and the my T30 rebooted. Went back to see if the changes had taken affect and they didn't. Started to make the page file changes again, the system automatically.

On this reboot, the IBM logo on the splash screen was distorted and it locked up in GRUB. After that, I began to write this post.

Any thoughts? I'll probably call tech support on tuesday.

[danage]

not the memory itself, but the slot. common among the t30s. sorry, but you will most likely have to get a new mainboard.

[ianf]

shame he he has not checked the cpu cooling system he has already stated he lost one due to heat as to fan noise well every one's perception of loud is subjective and i think we would all agree ibm make some of the best, but on this forum it's like a liferaft for tp's going to heaven ,2 t30 m/b of ebay had just past 3 years that not to good for those people that paid the new price
contary to what you say inductor falling of also not good, would you really imply someone can put there machine on soft material ??

ianf.

happy new year all.

[danage]

hello ianf, i'm sorry but keep having problems with your language. it lacks verbs, correct punctuation and sentence structure. readers have to decipher and figure out the meaning of what you are trying to say. please, for quite a many people (like myself) here english is a foreign language and as a courtesy to them, please make your statements as comprehendable as possible.

i still think you can use your thinkpad on a soft surface. we can expect that ibm engineers were aware of how hot p4m's get and that they took that into account when building the t30.

[ianf]

apology's for lack of formal structure and off course you are correct many people visiting here will of course not had the use of english in a working sense rather than books music and of course film


ianf..

[Ex IBM Dude]

All T30 machines were built with a known memory issue ie no support under base where mem sits so board cracks this is repairable with a new system board ( under warranty only )

This effects almost everything ie display anything at all , but mostly only the memory .

There is a fix floating round from IBM as far as i know only IBM thinkpad engineers are supplied them and we dont excist anymore ! i have none left

There is a hdd clip that raises the board and supports it aswell there is the new memory cover that has a raised edge to allow room to move .

In saying all that they are a great machine

Hope that helps , sorry to repeat anyone i hadnt seen that posted before

Mike

[ianf]

hello

i think thats most likely the cause but for some a packer between cover and module gives an extension of service i had found the geometry of the slot to be at issue as the earlier t series had a much better mem card slot arrangement far more durable.
a change of topic i did arather stupid thing ( the worst ) i fitted an ibm security chip back to the wrong m/b now resulting in error code 0192 ,i can alter settings in bios i get screen splash IBM and choose f1 or f12 then it hangs any clues as it never had the chip on that m/b.

ianf