T20 Blink Of Death Circuit Questions

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SMA · #91 Post by **SMA** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:37 pm

I did open one of these pictures before posting, but I wasn't to sure.
But now that you are forcing me, I'd say it is the round one in F5.

Also, perhaps the term "primary suspect" is a bit too strong. Might have been better to say, "the first one to inspect".

I cannot say exactly why, but it seems to me that the 3.3V has an important role in this BoD issue.

#92 Post by **rkawakami** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:45 pm

The reason why I ask about the D5 inductor is that it looks exactly like the one used on the T23 motherboard. I've had problems with a couple of T23 systems where that part was loose. Those systems did not exhibit any "blink of death" signs; it basically looked totally dead with no lights at all when you push the power button.

Rick Aguinaldo · #93 Post by **Rick Aguinaldo** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:04 am

This is a long shot but it may help someone. I had a T21 bought from eBay that has the BOD issue. It was returned to the seller for repair or replacement. The tech there says he repaired it by replacing the lcd ribbon cable. Of course I was skeptical having read the posts here, but who cares, the laptop is fixed, returned to me and it was resold.

Recently I got another TP, a T22 from eBay. After XP was installed and a couple more of tests my heart sank it exhibited the BOD symptoms. Several attempts to revive the unit using the tricks described here proved futile so it was time to open the laptop. Connectors cleaned/reseated and lcd inverter board replaced and the laptop still refuses to wake up. In desperation I wanted to try the tech's solution on the T21. Using a spare T21 lcd ribbon cable included by a seller as peace offering for a late shipment, the swap fired back the unit to life

. The unit is behaving okay after more ON/OFF tries to find out if the BOD returns. The tech was telling the truth on the T21

#94 Post by **rkawakami** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:16 pm

Intriguing idea Rick... I'll have to give it a try on the latest patient with the BoD, an A21p. It has powered up a couple of times but I haven't done too much with it since there's something still rattling around inside. When I open it up and figure out what it is, I'll try pulling the LCD ribbon cable.

gino-new · #95 Post by **gino-new** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 4:35 pm

i have read all the 4 pages and i am completely lost ..

where is the problem ?? which ic is faulted ?

now after 2 or 3 days without battery and unplugged ..

it powered on !! and so i do not switch off any more ...

this is my little solution .....

Robbyrobot · #96 Post by **Robbyrobot** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 5:56 am

i have read all the 4 pages and i am completely lost ..

Now you know how most of us feel

I'm still waiting on some confirmations of the claimed solutions that have been published - but as things are going, I'm not holding my breath.

Dontknow · #97 Post by **Dontknow** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:19 am

My T21 has had this problem since august last year and got it again in november, as I already explained in my last post.

I used the on off method without battery, and it worked again when the battery was inserted.

Now, since a few days, got this problem again.
This time the on off method wouldn't work, only last monday it started up suddenly. So I quicly entered the BIOS and disabled the "Intel Speedstep" function, but after restaring Windows the laptop shut himself off again and wouldn't start up any more.
So this wasn't the solution, al least not in my case.

So yesterday I decided to open it up and see if I could find something abnormal by inspecting the motherboard.
I followed the instructions and had at last the motherboard in my hands.

Nothing looked worn out, I even pulled the blue stickers off only to see that the contacts weren't oxydized.
I cleaned all contacts I could clean, where you expect some parts would connect, and remounted everything, only to see that the BOD was still there.

Now I'm looking for a lcd cable, as this is the only option I didn't try out, so I can have pleasure in dismounting the other half of my laptop, the half I didn't touch at all.

I hope we can find the real cause very soon, before we decide to throw the laptop in the garbage bin, as I also have an A31 that is working perfectly.

All this has however brought a result, I now dare dismount a laptop and remount it again, this was something I never had done before, after all those years of assembling or modifying desktops.

Thanks to all who keep informing us about the results of their quest, hope I can also contribute with a more positive result in the future (before I dump my T21 lol!).

Robbyrobot · #98 Post by **Robbyrobot** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 3:54 am

Now I'm looking for a lcd cable, as this is the only option I didn't try out...

As a "cure" for BOD, forget it. You'll learn how to dismantle the display, but that's about it. As of this moment, there are NO confirmed remedies for BOD. Every new "solution" is greeted with cheers - and then total silence.

Dontknow · #99 Post by **Dontknow** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 4:30 am

Found and ordered a new mainboard in Germany (€5), hope it does'nt have the BOD too!
When I get it and after mounting it I'll keep you informed about the evolution of the case.

Robbyrobot · #100 Post by **Robbyrobot** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:45 am

Found and ordered a new mainboard in Germany (€5), hope it does'nt have the BOD too!

T21 mainboard? Supposedly in operating condition? For €5??

Surely you mean €50 and if not, please provide the source since I want a few too

Dontknow · #101 Post by **Dontknow** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:13 pm

Found it on E-bay, €5, that's why I hope it's a working one!
A new one costs €52, €79 shipping included.
I usually order at www.pchub.com/uph/ , it's in Singapore and is usually cheap enough.
Once I had a faulty power supply in an old Compaq laptop my grandchild still uses for old games, found it there for €4.50, so he can keep playing.
I'll take a look if I can find the E-bay ad where I bought the T21 mainboard and let you know.

Dontknow · #102 Post by **Dontknow** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:24 pm

Found it!

http://stores.ebay.de/com-120

If you google for it, you find another one for €12, probably it will work better than the one I bought.
Mine says "doesn't boot", but I will try it anyway, you never know! maybe it's not due to BOD!

Lord_Sarevok · #103 Post by **Lord_Sarevok** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:01 pm

Hi to everyone, I recently acquired an IBM T20 with a stranger behaviour. it will eventually power on, boot and so on, but most of the times if I press the power button all the led blinks and then only the power led remains on. I noticed that if boots it will do a burn-in test without a problem providing that I don't move it, other way it will freeze. I assumed it's a "mechanical" problem... I'l try to resolder some of the components.

Robbyrobot · #104 Post by **Robbyrobot** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:46 am

Mainboard for €5...

Mine says "doesn't boot"

That answers everything, thanks. No interest in defective mainboards here, have too many of them already.

Dontknow · #105 Post by **Dontknow** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:22 am

Robbyrobot wrote:have too many of them already.

Mine would be the first one, so I can start the continuing story!

Dontknow · #106 Post by **Dontknow** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:20 pm

Ok, I received the mainboard, mounted it and found this one doesn't have the BOD, but it won't boot anyway.
All lights go on, the fan, the hd and the dvd turn, then all lights go out exceptthe power light.
Anybody a hint? (besides throwing the t21 away!lol)

Dontknow · #107 Post by **Dontknow** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:51 am

Just to keep you all informed, yesterday I bought a T21 for 30 euro, with the insurance the motherboard started normally.
It missed the hd, dvd (there was a floppy reader instead)and battery. Even a 128 mb SO DIMM was included.
I came home, took the missing parts from my T21 (the one with the BOD) and put them in the "new" one.
I pushed the power button and indeed everything started.
I could get into the bios, change my settings and I could start Windows.
I worked a little with different programs then, satisfied, shut the laptop off.
You cannot imagine what I experienced when I started it again next morning!!!
Yes, the BOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Think I'll sell my 2 T21 for spare parts, they are much required here!

Robbyrobot · #108 Post by **Robbyrobot** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 12:01 pm

You cannot imagine what I experienced when I started it again next morning!!!
Yes, the BOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Same thing happened to me one time when I bought a "functional" T2x mainboard at Ebay... luckily the seller was reasonable and I returned the board, but that was a shock.

Dontknow · #109 Post by **Dontknow** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 5:58 pm

Robbyrobot wrote:
Same thing happened to me one time when I bought a "functional" T2x mainboard at Ebay... luckily the seller was reasonable and I returned the board, but that was a shock.

Sorry for you but happy to hear I'm in good company!

Wingnut · #110 Post by **Wingnut** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:21 am

Dontknow wrote:Just to keep you all informed, yesterday I bought a T21 for 30 euro, with the insurance the motherboard started normally.
It missed the hd, dvd (there was a floppy reader instead)and battery. Even a 128 mb SO DIMM was included.
I came home, took the missing parts from my T21 (the one with the BOD) and put them in the "new" one.
I pushed the power button and indeed everything started.
I could get into the bios, change my settings and I could start Windows.
I worked a little with different programs then, satisfied, shut the laptop off.
You cannot imagine what I experienced when I started it again next morning!!!
Yes, the BOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Think I'll sell my 2 T21 for spare parts, they are much required here!

I wonder if its a component you swapped over that is damaging the MB in he "new" machine? It seems like a big coincidence that another machine that worked out of the box, doesn't work anymore with your old components? I read a similar example earlier in this thread where a member bought some used MB's and after swapping everything, it worked fine for a short while, then BAM....BOD again.

I admitedly know very little about the schematics of a laptop, but is it possible a defective piece if hardware (HD, Optical Drive, Battery, etc...) can be shorting out the MB somehow?

Dontknow · #111 Post by **Dontknow** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:37 pm

One thing is certain, it can't be the memory or the floppy, because I used the ones that were included in the sale.
The dvd wasn't included, and I didn't install it before the BOD appeared, so this is not the culprit.
Only thing I did was change the bios settings to default and try again. When it started I attached my hd, started windows up and explored the files for a while without problems, then shut off.
I checked the bios setting again and modified them as they were in my older T21. It started up again this time too.
After shutting down the next time, it didn't restart and still doesn't. Only the BOD appeared since.
My idea is that somewhere there must be a bad connection.
Tomorrow I will try to check all power contacts, resolder them and see if it helps, I think it is possible that some contacts are worn or cracked on the mb.
A friend technician told me they used to place clips between the screws and the mb mass contacts where possible, to reduce the possibility of bad connections, as they where frequent on IBM laptops; I'll see if I can find where they can be placed.
Already tried to clean all copper circles on the mb, where a mass connection is made, but it didn't help.
To be continued...

Dontknow · #112 Post by **Dontknow** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:23 am

Ok, here the next chapter.

After resoldering a lot of contacts, as shown in one of the first posts in this thread, nothing changed.

Resoldered the contacts on two of the motherboards, the original one and the other one I bought last saturday. Didn't do it on the E-bay mb because it shows another error, it just doesn't start but the lights all go on when pushing the power on button.

Both laptops still show the BOD after that.

Now, almost giving up hope, I tried to loosen the two screws that hold the keyboard into place by one turn on my original laptop, which didn't start since two months, and this time it started and is still on.
I don't dare shutting it off right now, first I will perform some tests, but I will eventually have to, so by then I'll keep you informed of the results.

This reminds me that last summer, when I first got the BOD, the T21 started normally after removing the two above mentioned screws. In fact I used it for a couple of weeks without those two screws.

Could it be that some of the conductors on the motherboard ( or the back of the keyboard) are cracked and removing the screws diminuishes the pressure and rehextablishes the contact?

t20user · #113 Post by **t20user** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:48 am

Dontknow wrote: Could it be that some of the conductors on the motherboard ( or the back of the keyboard) are cracked and removing the screws diminuishes the pressure and rehextablishes the contact?

In my experience it is unlikely to be actual traces on the mobo that are severed. However I have seen cracked capacitors and resistors as a result of board flex. Sometimes it is obvious and you can see solder joints loosened up, other times it is a hairline crack in the component you can only see with a microscope.

hans_luck · #114 Post by **hans_luck** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:05 am

Hi there!

i´m looking for a dump from a working t20, cause mine got the crc1 error. would anyone mail me his one?

about the 5euro mobos from germany: theyre all broken
mostly the auction-text says "won´t boot" if u got any questions feel free to ask, ill translate it for you.

for those who wonder if theres freeware to write the atmel-eeprom, try the new ponyprog beta, it seems to read and write the device. in case of write-errors try rebooting ur pc.
pony-prog is available at www.lancos.com

regards, Patrick

Dontknow · #115 Post by **Dontknow** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:01 pm

hans_luck wrote: about the 5euro mobos from germany: theyre all broken
mostly the auction-text says "won´t boot" if u got any questions feel free to ask, ill translate it for you.

I understand a little german (my daughter in law is from Dresden), but not everything on the descriptions on E-bay. I understood it didn't boot, but I ordered it in the hope it would have another error and not the BOD.
I was right, this one boots but it takes about 10 minutes. Going to check something in the future, but for the moment I'm too busy changing the floor of my living room.

I'll let you know the result when I try it, but for this I started another thread.

Very kind of you to offer to translate the meaning of the offers in german, but if I understand it well they only sell faulty parts there. We could begin a concurrent firm, selling all the BOD mb's we own!

Regards!

hans_luck · #116 Post by **hans_luck** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:52 pm

Yes, as far as ive seen most of the motherboards in this ebay-shop are defective. Other parts seem to be ok.
So if u are working with ur board don´t forget to make a backupcopy from the eeprom, it´d be an honour for me to take care of that copy;)

Anyone else having at least a dumb of an t2x or A2x for comparisons with my broken dump?

Tanks in advance,

Patrick

Merlin Witt · #117 Post by **Merlin Witt** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 7:28 pm

I was reading about this problem on my T20, feeling very smug as I had never seen the problem. But with 40 plus years of electronics experience and playing with personal and mainframe computers since the early 70's I thought I would join the group and watch in case I found something I could share info on. I am currently re-building a T23 I bought on e-bay.
I registered, shut the T20 off for the day and the second time I turned the T20 on I got the BOD. Went to another computer logged in, finished reading the efforts you have put into locating the source of this problem, and since I am lazy and did not want to change the BIOS settings I decided to try the "remove the battery and all external power sources, hold the power switch and then replace power sources to see what happened".
After several attempts over several days, with no luck, I removed the main battery and the external power adapter, and held the power switch down while plugging the external ac adapter / battery charger into the back of the laptop. Guess what? No BOD, just the normal power up sequence and I was back in operation. I put the main battery back in the unit and everything worked for the next three power sequences.
Then I got the BOD again. Since that time I have been through the same sequence of events three times. When I get the BOD, my current solution is to get this T20 to power up is to remove the main battery and external charger. Press the power switch for at least ten seconds.
Then while holding the power switch down, I plug the external charger into the unit. Once Windows comes up I replace the main battery. I never remove the CMOS battery. Everything then works normally.
This tells me that something in the power on sequence is not operating properly when the main battery is installed into this T20. But that same something either is not used when the only source of power is the external charger, or it is bypassed when on external power only. Or, there is a circuit internal to the external battery that limits the current drain when the battery gets older.
The battery I am currently using lasts about ten minutes when I remove the external power supply / charger. I have other batteries to test, but thought this information could possible help diagnose the problems others are having. And that there may be others who could get their T series to boot following my steps.

Merlin

Dontknow · #118 Post by **Dontknow** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:34 am

@Merlin Witt

Thank you for trying to solve this mystery too!

The method you used is the one I also use to start the T21 which now belongs to my grandson; the problem is that this method doesn't always work!

After a few weeks of trying without success, it will now start after a two days wait, it can always perform a warm start but if you turn it off then you can't restart the same day.

Removing all power, waiting for a couple of days, pushing the power button for half a minute, then inserting the battery will make it start up again.

In my case it doesn't work if you try to start up using the external power with or without battery. I connect the external power after a successful power on using the battery.

Tried to resolder as much as possible: no success!

Nowhere a good working motherboard to buy, all the mb's I tried have the same problem. Could it be that the problem is not situated on the mb but on the power circuits outside it?

A very strange problem, and if I may say this, I don't understand the total loss of interest of IBM or Lenovo about it, there are so many people having this problem, they could at least give some advice, even if the laptops are old!

t20user · #119 Post by **t20user** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:04 pm

Merlin Witt wrote: Or, there is a circuit internal to the external battery that limits the current drain when the battery gets older.

My guess from these observations is that if the battery initiates this problem, it probably damages something on the mobo after the battery itself has become defective.

Tony.Yarwood · #120 Post by **Tony.Yarwood** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:43 pm

My guess from these observations is that if the battery initiates this problem, it probably damages something on the mobo after the battery itself has become defective.

I'm no electronic engineer, just my observations, my T22 started playing up only a month or two after buying a new battery.

I've only just got into this thread, is the final outcome of Bod death of the 'puter?

Best regards

Tony

T20 Blink Of Death Circuit Questions

mee to i have the bod pb ..

maybe bod

Blink of death

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