My T23 Won't charge my batteries

[UnixNut]

Hello all!

I am having a sudden issue with my Thinkpad. I have two batteries for it, one in the ultrabay and the normal battery, both were bought new and have worked for almost a year (giving me over 4 hours use easily).

Two days ago, I forgot to plug in the laptop and it ran the batteries down until it died. Ok, so I put it to charge, and it says it is charging, everything looks ok.

After about a day of charging I take the laptop and turn it on, only for it to turn off within 30 seconds. It seems that the batteries are not being charged at all.

The batteries were healthy, and I can't believe that from them going from 80% of full capacity to 0% in the space of a few hours is possible. Even a single deep discharge should not reduce the capacity this much.

So I thought I'd let it charge until full (until I get the green battery light), so far I have been charging it non-stop for one and a half days, and it still hasn't finished.

Here is some information (both batteries are original IBM ones, not clones):

(Battery 0, the main one):

present: yes
design capacity: 44000 mWh
last full capacity: 33320 mWh
battery technology: rechargeable
design voltage: 11100 mV
design capacity warning: 2200 mWh
design capacity low: 440 mWh
capacity granularity 1: 1 mWh
capacity granularity 2: 1 mWh
model number: IBM-050420B
serial number: 393
battery type: LION
OEM info: CMP

capacity state: critical
charging state: charging
present rate: 0 mW
remaining capacity: 0 mWh
present voltage: 10231 mV

And the second one (ultrabay):

present: yes
design capacity: 38880 mWh
last full capacity: 32930 mWh
battery technology: rechargeable
design voltage: 10800 mV
design capacity warning: 1944 mWh
design capacity low: 388 mWh
capacity granularity 1: 1 mWh
capacity granularity 2: 1 mWh
model number: IBM-02K6817
serial number: 327
battery type: LION
OEM info: SANYO

capacity state: critical
charging state: charged
present rate: 0 mW
remaining capacity: 0 mWh
present voltage: 10895 mV


So so far it has not charged the batteries at all (and with a charge rate of 0mW, it won't be done soon). I suspect that it might not be the batteries that have died, just that the controller thinks so, is it possible to reset the timer on the batteries? (or of course, if anyone thinks it is another problem, let me know).

Any help *really* appreciated

[Harryc]

What happens if you charge just one battery at a time, .e.g the main battery only?

[UnixNut]

What happens if you charge just one battery at a time, .e.g the main battery only?

I tried charging the ultrabay battery on its own for an hour or so with the same results. I am now trying just charging the main battery (it is currently in progress), so far the same issues (0mW charge rate).

[tfflivemb2]

It sounds like one of the inductors on the top of systemboard might have come loose.

Try removing the keyboard, using the Hardware Maintenance Manual as a guide. look just beneath where the space bar would sit, and see if the little black inductor has come loose on one side. If it has, and you are decent at soldering, you might be able to reflow the solder and make a good connection.

There is a thread in here that goes into more detail, but since I am typing with one had while holding a baby, I can't search for it right now...

[UnixNut]

It sounds like one of the inductors on the top of systemboard might have come loose.

Try removing the keyboard, using the Hardware Maintenance Manual as a guide. look just beneath where the space bar would sit, and see if the little black inductor has come loose on one side. If it has, and you are decent at soldering, you might be able to reflow the solder and make a good connection.

There is a thread in here that goes into more detail, but since I am typing with one had while holding a baby, I can't search for it right now...

Its ok. I was one of those on that thread, I had the issue with pulsating fans before (sorry about my site going down, it is in the process of being rewritten). Most annoying to have to take the laptop apart again. but at least I can have a look and see if that is the case. Thank you =)

[joester]

I believe the technology built into the circuitry inside the battery will "cut off" the battery if different charge/discharge rates and/or voltages are detected. I have rebuilt a couple batteries now, and one in a Gateway had one cell that was completely dead compared to the others. I replaced the dead one only with a known good and somewhat charged cell. Still no charge... I re-replaced it with a know good but discharged cell of equivalent voltage to the other cells in the battery - VIOLA!

I think you may have the same thing going on in your battery. Since you were not in the habit of running the batteries down, you never had enough difference in the batteries to trigger the circuitry into protect mode. You *might* be able to open the battery up and trickle charge the cells to all equal the most charged cell in the pack.

Joe

[tfflivemb2]

It sounds like one of the inductors on the top of systemboard might have come loose.

Try removing the keyboard, using the Hardware Maintenance Manual as a guide. look just beneath where the space bar would sit, and see if the little black inductor has come loose on one side. If it has, and you are decent at soldering, you might be able to reflow the solder and make a good connection.

There is a thread in here that goes into more detail, but since I am typing with one had while holding a baby, I can't search for it right now...

Its ok. I was one of those on that thread, I had the issue with pulsating fans before (sorry about my site going down, it is in the process of being rewritten). Most annoying to have to take the laptop apart again. but at least I can have a look and see if that is the case. Thank you =)

I'm not sure which site you are talking about, but thats the thing about this inductor...you don't have to disassemble the entire laptop. Removing the keyboard should give you the access that you need, if I am not mistaken.

[jamerslong]

could it be a fat happy chance that a fuse has gone out?

it's easy to test but i wouldn't know where to get a replacement fuse for it.

[rkawakami]

Removing the keyboard should give you the access that you need, if I am not mistaken.

Almost totally correct . You also need to remove the keyboard bezel in order to get to the inductor next to the S3 video chip.

If the fuse to the main battery (F12) has blown, I would think that the system would not be able to run off the battery at all. There's a second fuse right next to it (F9) but it's really small. I think that one is protecting the data connection to the memory inside the battery but that's just a guess. It's too small to handle the several amps that would be needed to charge a battery. There's a similar pair of fuses (F11 and F10) next to the Ultrabay which protect that area.

The large fuses (white body with silver endcaps) can be found at mouser.com and are made by Littelfuse. Search the archives for that manufacturer name and you should find a couple of my posts about it. And yes, it's spelled L I T T E L F U S E.

[Hornnumb2]

I have a T30 that when the battery is put in the battery light stays constant yellow and never gets green or charges the battery. Would this thread apply to mine also? Thanks

[rkawakami]

It's possible. Do you have any information from the Battery Maximiser program as to the full charge and remaining capacity? Also, about how old and how many charge cycles has this battery seen (also available from the Maximiser program)?

[UnixNut]

I'm not sure which site you are talking about

Ah, a few years back I had a problem with this Thinkpad. It would not past post and the fans were pulsating, eventually (with the help of some people in this forum) I found out that it was the inductor on the motherboard, which I repaired and posted a how-to on my website. Then the website went down and people on this forum started asking about it. Sorry for the confusion

but thats the thing about this inductor...you don't have to disassemble the entire laptop. Removing the keyboard should give you the access that you need, if I am not mistaken.

Indeed you were right, I removed the keyboard and top Bezel and sure enough, the inductor underneath was disconnected (one of the pins were not touching). I shall have a go fixing it over the weekend as I have a little spare time now.

One thing I don't get, why is it that the thinkpads have this issue? So far every time I had to fix this Thinkpad the problem was an inductor coming loose. Is this a general issue with all laptops, just Thinkpads or the T-series in general? (I fixed many non-IBM/Lenovo laptops, never was it an inductor).

[rkawakami]

Could be a couple of reasons:

- IBM (or their system assembler) got a bad batch of inductors with contamination on the leads
- use of lead-free solder
- assembly issue (not enough solder paste was deposited)
- excessive flexing of the motherboard was not expected

One, several, or all of these things happening can cause these parts (and others) to break off from the board. I think each series, and maybe even particular models in a series (think: T20-T22 "Blink of Death", which does not appear to affect T23s) have their own unique issues. Some are easy to determine (and fix); others not so much. I don't have any presence on any other laptop forums to know that these same types of problems exist, or don't, on Dells, Fujitsus, Gateways, etc. Given that there's some evidence that even non-laptop systems like the Sony PS2 were/are having problems with keeping their BGA packages firmly attached to the circuit board, I'd have to say it's a general industry problem. Not something that is just isolated to Thinkpads or laptops.

[joester]

I don't have any presence on any other laptop forums to know that these same types of problems exist, or don't, on Dells, Fujitsus, Gateways, etc. Given that there's some evidence that even non-laptop systems like the Sony PS2 were/are having problems with keeping their BGA packages firmly attached to the circuit board, I'd have to say it's a general industry problem. Not something that is just isolated to Thinkpads or laptops.

I have at least a small presence on some other sites, but most "other sites" do not get too deep into "kitchen table" diagnostics. Also, there isn't as much electronics knowledge as we find on this site. Most users of Macs, PS2's, Gateways, Dells, ect... would throw away a laptop because the screen went blank instead of trying to fix it. Maybe they would take it to a computer shop, but I bet that's as far as their skill set would allow them to repair it.
I would be willing to bet that most regular users of this site have their own workshop, solder station, DMM, maybe an oscilloscope or two, various hand tools, and of course lots of "spare" parts. Those same people could also tell you what parts they lack in those spare parts that prevents them from building a laptop from scratch.
It's been my experience that you don't find that on many of the other sites.

That's why we thank Bill, and appreciate this forum.

Joe

[phool@round]

Most users of Macs... would throw away a laptop because the screen went blank instead of trying to fix it.

May your soldering iron overtemp and it's tip prematurely round......blasphemer!

Yo joe, kinda made a broad statement there, eh?

[rkawakami]

We may need an anchor here in a little bit but seeing as how the OP's issue seems to have been resolved (UnixNut, did you get that soldering iron heated up yet?), Joe's statement about "Macs, PS2s, Gateways, Dells" hit me in TWO and a half spots (Macs and Gateways; PS2 in the house for the kid). Got two Gateway towers and one laptop and an iMac and Macbook. Before the Thinkpad itch got to me I was, and I guess I still am, a fairly happy Gateway user. Both Macs don't see too much use but they arrived after the TPs. However all of them are working quite well, Windows 98 on my 8 year old, 600Mhz PIII Gateway tower included, without benefit of any soldering irons or disassembly (so far). I've got my fair share of tools; the aforementioned DMMs, soldering iron, tools, parts, etc., with the exception of an oscilloscope. For that, I'd have to borrow one (or a logic analyzer) from work. Of course being interested in computers and electronics since my teens and building various Heathkit items back in the mid-to-late '70s (shortwave radio, two TVs, benchtop power supply), helped me get where I am today.... surrounded by more "projects" .