Looking at a T22

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titantiger · #1 Post by **titantiger** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:12 am

Does this series have any known recurring issues? I have a 600e that's dying on me and has never had a worthwhile battery. After I bought it I found out that battery problems were common on 600e models and that even if I bought a new one, it would probably ruin that battery before too long as well (as least much faster than batteries typically go bad).

So, those in the know, what do you think of this model? Any problems I should watch out for?

Also, I hate the soft rubbery skin on the 600e. Does the T22 have the regular hard plastic case? Thanks!

Phazer · #2 Post by **Phazer** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:33 am

Well. . . Do a search for T22 & BOD, (blink of death) and you'll see several threads relating to this. It seems that each series has it's own peculiar bug-a-boos. I myself prefer the T23 which doesn't seem to suffer the "unknown BOD", but has some mobo issues that seem to be repairable, (I've not suffered yet)(threads are many). T22's are good machines but good/cheap mobo's are/will soon be hard to find that are functioning. If I was you, I'd look for a T23.

titantiger · #3 Post by **titantiger** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:42 am

Eek. It appears though that that whole T20-T23 series has this problem or something similar.

Is there a model line that seems to have less problems than others? And I'm looking at something relatively cheap, so probably in the Pentium 3 era.

Phazer · #4 Post by **Phazer** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:36 pm

Besides my daughters T22, I've had no problems related to anything "thinkpad" on any of mine. I've gotten a few real bargins on some of the units I bought, and others were a little on the high side. It just depends on what your looking for and how bad you want it. I've bought some bare systems at a reasonable cost but I had all the missing parts in my possession. I don't know how many times I've bought something planning on gradually getting it going, and end up paying top dollar for items just because "I want to get it going". craigslist seems to have a higher ratio of people that have Thinkpads for sell yet don't have a clue what they're worth, so a good deal can be had. eBay is just a shot in the dark anymore. And the units on here are usually pretty "decked out" but you'll get an honest description of what your buying. There is a certain A31 owner on here that seems to have pretty good deals on a regular basis. I'd steer you that way also.

Website · #5 Post by **tfflivemb2** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:37 pm

Here is a break down of "common" problems the T series models:
T20-T22 - Blink of Death (BoD) problems - unresolved
T23 - pulsing fan with no boot caused by loose inductors - solved (easy)
T30 - dead ram slot caused by flexing - recently solved (moderate)
T40-T42 - GPU problem causing freezing or no boot - solved(difficult)
T43 - very loud fan - solved with fan control utility (easy)

Additional:
A2x series - Blink of Death - unresolved

I would look at the T23. The T23 only has one common problem, the inductors that tend to come loose from flexing, but it is a problem that can be easliy repaired.

EDIT: Added the T42 to the list for GPU problems. The problems with a non-approved harddrive aren't quite the same as these problems, since these problems require actual repairs to get past the issue.

pianowizard · #6 Post by **pianowizard** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:03 pm

tfflivemb2 wrote:T40-T41 - GPU problem causing freezing or no boot - solved(difficult)
T42 - no severe common problems

The T42 also tends to have the GPU problem, although the percentage of affected units does seem lower, perhaps because it's newer than the T40 and T41.

tfflivemb2 wrote:T43 - very loud fan - solved with fan control utility (easy)

Also, the 2010 hard drive error is a major nuisance for some people. Although, considering the OP's relatively low budget, I don't think he would need to worry about problems with the T4*.

Phazer · #7 Post by **Phazer** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:06 pm

I guess you need to let everyone know what your willing to spend also. $200.00 or less can be done easily but will take longer. $300.00+ will get you something sooner. Screen resolution, HDD size/speed, and mem size play a big part on value. What you want and what you need can be two different things totally. Sometimes the parts that you remove after an upgrade have good value, sometimes they don't.

titantiger · #8 Post by **titantiger** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:32 pm

I'm looking at around $300 or less. I mainly want reliability, a good battery, a HD of at least 20GB or more, 256MB or more of RAM and a P3 processor of 700Mhz or newer.

Cosmetically in good shape, none of that rubbery skin like the 600e and nothing smaller than a 13" screen. A CD burner would be nice but is not critical. Built in wireless would also be nice but I have a PCMCIA wireless card so it's not a dealbreaker.

I just decided to ask a few questions this time because had I known of the battery issue with the 600e, I wouldn't have bought it. I got it thinking that I could replace the battery cheaply, only to find out the 600e goes through batteries like a termite through wood.

pianowizard · #9 Post by **pianowizard** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:46 pm

titantiger wrote:I'm looking at around $300 or less.....

Looking at your criteria, I think the T30 would be the best. I used to dislike it because, 1) it's the heaviest among the 14.1" T series, and 2) its Pentium 4 processor consumes a lot of power (thus reducing battery life). But, IMO, its build quality exceeds that of the T2* and the T4*. As listed above by tfflivemb2, it does have the RAM slot problem, but in the great majority of cases, only one slot is affected, so you still have the other slot, which can take up to 1GB.

The T30 doesn't have the TP600's rubbery palm rest, which I also hate. But I hate the speakers on the palm rest even more, because they scratch my hands.

titantiger · #10 Post by **titantiger** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:29 pm

pianowizard wrote:
titantiger wrote:I'm looking at around $300 or less.....
Looking at your criteria, I think the T30 would be the best. I used to dislike it because, 1) it's the heaviest among the 14.1" T series, and 2) its Pentium 4 processor consumes a lot of power (thus reducing battery life). But, IMO, its build quality exceeds that of the T2* and the T4*. As listed above by tfflivemb2, it does have the RAM slot problem, but in the great majority of cases, only one slot is affected, so you still have the other slot, which can take up to 1GB.

The T30 doesn't have the TP600's rubbery palm rest, which I also hate. But I hate the speakers on the palm rest even more, because they scratch my hands.

I realize this isn't the correct subforum, but how would that compare with the R30? I can get one of those for about $275.

pianowizard · #11 Post by **pianowizard** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:43 pm

titantiger wrote:how would that compare with the R30? I can get one of those for about $275.

The R30 is older than the T30 and I recently learned that it was NOT made by IBM but instead was outsourced, and it's supposed to be inferior to the T30 in terms of quality.

I see five T30's on eBay that have Buy-It-Now prices of under $300 including shipping.

Raceboy · #12 Post by **Raceboy** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:44 pm

R30 is crap compared to ANY T2x or even 600E. It uses Ali chipset and is painfully slow. Not to mention lower quality assembly and case. As chipset says, R30 is made by Acer.

As many other already suggested, I'd go for either T30 or T23. T23 with 1.2 Ghz CPU is pretty much the same as 2.0 Ghz P4-M if memory size and HDD are the same. T23 is lighter.

titantiger · #13 Post by **titantiger** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:52 pm

So, a T30 or T23. Does the T23 have that rubbery palm rest?

#14 Post by **rkawakami** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:26 pm

No, it's smooth like all of the other T2x systems. However, a common problem is for the palmrest (aka keyboard bezel) to crack at the thinest spot on either side of the laptop. Next to the Fn key and/or the right arrow key. Typically this is due to stiff hinges and/or a broken Ultrabay mounting tab at the back. The T23 I'm using right now has the cracks on both sides but I don't think the tab is busted. It's hard to source a replacement bezel at a good price (<$20) on eBay. The Ultrabay guide rail seems to be easier/cheaper to find.

#15 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:31 pm

No, it has the same plastic palmrest as all the T2x, T30 and T4x.
Some (not all) T30s and AFAIK all T4xs come with UltraNAV, the 'sliding' mousepad.

ajkula66 · #16 Post by **ajkula66** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:32 pm

I'm just going to add that nowadays $300 can likely buy you a R5x machine with a PM CPU and USB 2.0 ports...way more modern than T23 or T30, and reasonably reliable. Go for ones with integrated graphics to avoid the GPU issues discussed on T4x models...

Or, get a really nice T23/T30, for that amount of money you should be able to choose nowadays, I love these machines as well. For the amount given, they should be nicely spec'd and in very good physical condition, 8.5 out of 10 at least.

Just my $0.02...

ZAGNUT · #17 Post by **ZAGNUT** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:54 pm

i don't know why everyone rags on the pentium 4 found in the T30. mine is the 2GHz version and has been in use all day, every day since i got it 3 months ago and i really don't see any issues with heat. bottom of the base stays cool and the fan hardly ever spins up.

since i have to have a com port i'll stick to the T30 and from what i've read here on the forums it also seems a lot more reliable. if it ever does develop a bad ram slot it's an easy fix. i would hate to try reflowing a BGA with a heat gun...

dave

titantiger · #18 Post by **titantiger** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 12:08 pm

I wouldn't be opposed to a P4. This lappy isn't going to be a road warrior. Just mainly used at home and on a small desk in our den, but I'd like to be able to use it on my lap while watching TV every now and then too.

Ok, aside from the Marketplace forum here and eBay, what places do you think are good to buy a nice used T23 or T30 from that you find to be trustworthy, have good prices and sell things in good condition?

ajkula66 · #19 Post by **ajkula66** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 12:19 pm

Marketplace here is your best bet. These machines are way too old for any official re-seller to stock them, and eBay, as always, is hit or miss.

Post a WTB ad here and see what happens...I'm sure you'll be pleasantly surprised. You may end up paying a couple of bucks more than you would on fleabay, but that's money very well spent on a peace of mind in my opinion.

And, in the intent of full disclosure: no, I don't have a T23, T30 or a R5x for sale...

Good luck.

DrThinkpad · #20 Post by **DrThinkpad** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:49 am

tfflivemb2 wrote:Here is a break down of "common" problems the T series models:
T20-T22 - Blink of Death (BoD) problems - unresolved
T23 - pulsing fan with no boot caused by loose inductors - solved (easy)
T30 - dead ram slot caused by flexing - recently solved (moderate)
T40-T41 - GPU problem causing freezing or no boot - solved(difficult)
T42 - no severe common problems
T43 - very loud fan - solved with fan control utility (easy)

Additional:
A2x series - Blink of Death - unresolved

I would look at the T23. The T23 only has one common problem, the inductors that tend to come loose from flexing, but it is a problem that can be easliy repaired.

The T42 also has the GPU problem and is also more subject to Southbridge death/malfunction (which causes USB problems) than any member of the T4X series.

Looking at a T22

Looking at a T22

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