T23 bsod and freeze ups

Message

Zinfandel · #1 Post by **Zinfandel** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:30 pm

First, I consider myself to have only moderate technical abilities, and may need some things spelled out. I used this thinkpad for about a year and half, and have not used the computer for the last year due to the crashes and freezes (I don't have the specific stop errors, but page_fault_in_non_page_area was one). I got the T23 out the other day and thought maybe installing another OS might cure the problem. Here is where I am at.

I was able to successfully format the hard drive, and install Windows XP Pro w/ sp3, set up the user account, the date was correct, and adjusted screen resolution. I left the computer for a few minutes and BSOD. Stop 0x0000007E error. I read through the following support document.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/330182

One thing I thought it could be is the BIOS are outdated and don't support XP (although it did have XP home on it for a year with no problems), I checked and it was BIOS version 1.10 from March 2002, and embedded controller version 1.03.

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... 39362.html

I downloaded the updated BIOS and ECV on another computer and was able to copy those files to the c: drive on the T23. I was able to launch and complete both exe files, but for whatever reason when I rebooted into BIOS the original version (1.10) was still listed. I am not sure if I correctly installed those files, and quite frankly the bit about diskettes and 3.5" drive in the instructions doesn't make sense to me.

Presently the computer is quite unstable. I can sometimes get it to launch Windows and navigate a few minutes before it freezes up, but after powering it off manually several times it is difficult to get it back up. It seems if I hold down the power button for just the right amount of time I can get it to launch windows, otherwise all I get is the fan and cd to spin with a black screen.

One other issue to note is the battery is extremely low, and will only hold about a 5 minute charge. I don't know if this makes any difference, or if it is necessary to have a battery at all. I considered purchasing one, but thought it would be a waste of money if I had serious hardware issues.

I guess it could be a power issue, motherboard, ram, etc... I have the time and a fews buck if it is worth the gamble.

I'd like to get this one back up, it was a very serviceable machine.

Thanks in advance for all replies.

Zin

#2 Post by **rkawakami** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:15 pm

Welcome to thinkpads.com!

From your description, it sounds like you may have a problem with the memory (RAM) or hard drive. Both can be checked out for no $$$ at all, if you have a floppy drive or a CD burner.

The BIOS update requires that you have a floppy drive to create a disk that you boot the system with (BIOS Diskette). After you download the and run the .exe file, you are supposed to put a floppy into the drive and the program will install the proper software onto that floppy. The EC update is available in either the same type of floppy disk format (EC Diskette) or can be run from the hard drive (EC Non-diskette). Even though floppies are pretty much obsolete, many diagnostic and firmware programs still assume that you have such a drive. No doubt you have found these files here:

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-39366

A free program which enables you to verify that your memory is working properly is memtest86+:

http://www.memtest.org/

This program is available in both floppy and CD formats. For the floppy, choose the following link from the Download section at memtest.org (duplicated here for easy access but may become obsolete when a new version is released):

Download - Pre-Compiled package for Floppy (DOS - Win)

If you have a CD burner and the software to burn an .ISO file, then you can use this:

Download - Pre-Compiled Bootable ISO (.zip)

When you have created the floppy or CD, you boot the system with that disk and the diagnostic will begin to run automatically. It executes a series of memory checks, with one pass through the entire suite of tests taking about 45 minutes for 512MB (in a T23). I would allow at least three passes before declaring the memory good. Any errors will be highlighted in red on the bottom half of the diagnostic screen.

To check your hard drive, you can use a free copy of PC Doctor for DOS available in floppy format (three disks) from here:

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... IGR-4YZM3F

or as an .ISO file hosted on my web site for burning onto a CD from here:

http://www.kawakami-ca.com/ibm_t2x/ibm_t22_pcdiag.iso

Again, the floppy version requires that you download the three .exe files and run each of them one-at-a-time with a blank floppy in the drive.

Boot the T23 with the floppy set or CD, select the T2x option (the only one available from the menu

), allow the program to load, then select the Diagnostics/Fixed Disk test. There will be a series of tests that will non-destructively test your hard drive. In other words, it will not purposely write any data to your drive but as with any disk operation, it can result in (additional) damage if the drive accesses a portion of the disk and causes a head crash.

You don't need any battery to run the system (assuming the AC adapter is 100%) so I would not purchase any additional hardware until you get a chance to run some diagnostics. Your T23 could simply have bad memory or there could be an issue with the motherboard. Try running these test programs and report back here with the results.

(Side note: Since I noticed this yesterday and for the people who have bought or sold equipment from/to me may recognize an ironic coincidence with the OP's handle, this post represents my 5000th. It's been quite a pleasure spending the last two years on this site with all of you and I hope to be here many more

).

Zinfandel · #3 Post by **Zinfandel** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:29 pm

Happy 5000th post Ray, how ironic it is my first. I will run those diagnostics asap and report the results. Thanks.

#4 Post by **Harryc** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:32 pm

Congrats Ray! Nice 5000th post, I am definitely bookmarking it so I can refer others to it.

Berny · #5 Post by **Berny** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:10 am

... updating BIOS or Emb.Controller won't work without having both healthy battery and AC.

#6 Post by **rkawakami** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:56 am

Good point! I missed that little detail when updating the BIOS and EC. However, if Zinfandel is just trying to run the diagnostics on the laptop then no battery is needed.

Purcy · #7 Post by **Purcy** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:37 am

Congratulations Ray, this board is definitely a richer learning environment due to those 5,000 posts! Caught the username connection

, thought maybe you were also toasting yourself with a nice glass of Zinfandel

#8 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:43 am

That Zinfandel is just up your street!

Congrats Ray on that 5'000 post milestone.

It's always a pleasure reading your posts, and the amount I have learned from them is phenomenal!

To the OP: read this post to update BIOS/ECP without battery
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=64651
You could probably make that work for a T23 as well.

Zinfandel · #9 Post by **Zinfandel** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:14 pm

I had some difficulty getting the T23 to launch the OS. I would power on the computer but did not have anything but a blank screen, with the fan running and the dvd running. After a dozen or so attempts I checked the RAM to make sure it was seated (it appeared to be), and changed the it over to the other slot. Bingo, it launched into WinXP Pro and ran without having any problems. I proceeded to run mem_test for 2 hours without any errors. I don't know if the slot was bad or if it wasn't seated properly. I ran the computer for almost 24 hours without any BSOD, but did receive the same BSOD stop error when I physically moved the computer from one desk to another. I was able to boot the system back up into the OS without any errors for many hours.

I then proceeded to run the PC doctor iso you provided, and ran the complete test. I did receive the following error.

217-260-000-20080729
Hard Disk Drive Failed
(Error verifying sectors 45689647-45689774)

Also ran the Diagnostics/Fixed Disc test as advised.
All passed but Linear Verify

-----------

Based on that information it would seem certain their is a problem with the hard drive, and a slight/lesser probability there is a problem with the RAM, or RAM clip/installation slot.

I don't need much Hard Disk space on this computer (basically this will not be a mobile computer, and only used to access the web), and was curious if the hard disk could be partitioned so it would not access that part of the disk. If that is true, and the OS is part of that part of the disk, perhaps a reinstall of the OS would work. In effect, the trouble sector might be effectively quarantined.

Maybe that makes no sense in reality, and purchasing another hard drive would be the best, or only good solution.

Please advise.

Thanks again for the advice.

Zin

#10 Post by **rkawakami** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:07 am

Hmm.. moving the system induced a BSOD, huh? In that case, I have two suspects:

- a memory slot issue much like those found on T30 systems. I personally have two T23s with bad memory slots. Well, one of them is now actually just the motherboard since I replaced it. The other system is still fully intact just hanging around until I get enough incentive to look at it.
- loose inductor. Typically this is seen as a general power fault but if it's mostly attached, the simple strain of picking up the system may be enough to cause a glitch somewhere in the laptop.

Both of these issues would involve removing the motherboard from the case and doing some soldering. If you don't already have a copy of the T2x Hardware Maintenance Manual, then get one from here:

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... 39298.html (General Index of HMMs)

You could certainly try to partition the drive such that the bad sectors are "out of sight". This was a typical trick back in the days when disk capacity was measured in megabytes

. However, I've found that some disk errors can be fixed by running the PC Doctor Full Erase Hard Drive utility. All you need to do is invest some time as it can take several hours if you have a large disk drive. And of course, more time to re-install your OS. You can throw some money at the problem (i.e., buy a new drive) but if you are trying to minimize your costs, then I'd go with some software attempts first. Also, if you know the manufacturer of the disk drive, you could try to get a copy of their diagnostics. Hitachi (DFT), Seagate (SeaTools), Fujitsu (FJDT) and I'm sure others have dedicated utilities which test hard drives.

edit: Another (very remote) possibility which may be giving you problems is the MiniPCI modem and/or wireless card. Pull it out of the system and then see how it runs. Usually a bad card will prevent power-on or cause OS install problems but who knows... it's another "free" test you can do

#11 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:55 am

Run this program with the following switches: chkdsk /f /r
That'll fix bad sectors and/or any other errors.
It will probably ask you to schedule this in the next (re)boot, that is OK.

Purcy · #12 Post by **Purcy** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:04 am

RealBlackStuff wrote:Run this program with the following switches: chkdsk /f /r
That'll fix bad sectors and/or any other errors.
It will probably ask you to schedule this in the next (re)boot, that is OK.

RBS, can you expound on what you mean by running that command with "the following switches" as I want to write this down in my useful stuff book, for just in case future use.

Thanks

#13 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:42 pm

Click on Start/Run, type in chkdsk /f /r and click on OK.
You will be asked to schedule this for the next (re)boot. Answer Y.
the /f means: fix errors
the /r means: repair bad sectors

A more complicated way to get at it is: rightclick on My Computer on the Desktop, select Open, select the C: drive, rightclick it, select Properties, Select Tools, then under Error Checking, click on Check now. On the next screen 'tick' both options.

See also this: http://vlaurie.com/computers2/Articles/chkdsk.htm

Purcy · #14 Post by **Purcy** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:20 pm

Many thanks

Zinfandel · #15 Post by **Zinfandel** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:26 pm

Again, thank you for the replies. I've had this computer running stable for a few weeks, aside from a few bsods which occurred when moving the computer. I did purchase a new battery, with 9 month warranty. It has a copy of XP Pro w/SP3 installed. The intention was to give this computer to my brother, but because it is not more reliable I am not going to do that. I would like to sell the computer, first dibs to the people that replied to me in this thread, then off to the marketplace category. I am only asking for the cost of the battery plus shipping costs, which come out to about $55.

Please reply via PM.

T-23
1.2 GHz
512 RAM

PayPal is preferred

Thanks

Zin

#16 Post by **rkawakami** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:42 pm

A very nice offer

.

I will officially post a "pass" on purchasing this system. As most of you know, I already have my share of T23s!

edit: Oh, and you have a PM (possible problem areas and fixes)!

#17 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:32 am

doctor bloomquist · #18 Post by **doctor bloomquist** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:53 pm

I have to say I had similar BSODS when I first got my dad's (second hand) T21, and would still have been scratching my head if it hadn't been for HDDHealth. Made it clear the hard drive was totally fubar, a replacement was neccessary.

DPHMIN · #19 Post by **DPHMIN** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:58 pm

You have PM.

DPHMIN · #20 Post by **DPHMIN** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 1:56 pm

Zinfandel,

I sent you another PM. If you didn't receive it, I'm interested in your T23.

T23 bsod and freeze ups

T23 bsod and freeze ups

Who is online