T30 power issues & first post!

[laboye]

Hi everyone! After searching for solutions to numerous problems to boatloads of ThinkPads, I got to noticing that many excellent responses came from this very forum! In hopes of clearing my most recent ThinkPad roadblock, I've finally registered here. For the longest time, I was a frequent poster on the solving side of Tech Support Forum (TSF). Eventually I fell out of forums completely, but in light of my current ThinkPad-filled efforts and finally registering here, I hope to jump back in.

Alright, down to issues. I have here 2 T30s (2366-8AU & 2366-81U) that will not power up under normal circumstances. When the power button is pressed, the systems have a normal LED sequence, the speakers do the good 'ol pop, and the HDs and fans spin up. After about 4 seconds, the LCD blinks once (for... probably about half the duration of a fingersnap) and the systems immediately power off with no beeps or warnings. Once this occurs, the systems will not power on until they have no battery and AC power present for about 6-7 seconds minimum. Once power is restored, the systems act in the exact same manner.

The first T30, I used as a personal machine for quite some time when out of the blue, these symptoms occurred. The second, is a machine I purchased from eBay that had a "backlight issue". Once received, I tested the machine and found that it worked fine, but only with an external monitor (BIOS was set to use the the LCD & VGA as default). I replaced the inverter to no avail, then tried the LCD panel in a known working T30--no dice. I moved on to the LCD's CCFL and replaced that as well (what a job...). The LCD now worked fine in the good T30, but not in the other. The replaced inverter turned out to be good as well. I broke down the laptop according to IBM service manual, cleaning all the parts and ensuring proper connections during reassembly. To my surprise, the machine was unable to power up just like my personal T30 (which was never disassembled prior).

Further investigation revealed that the both systems work perfectly fine if the LCD cable is unplugged from the motherboard. They power on, POST and both even ran through an XP install and overnight CPU burn-in with Prime95. With the LCDs present, the systems will simply not power up. With the CRT on it, I set the machines to use VGA only at boot. With this option set, the systems boot fine with LCDs present, but once I press Fn+F7, the PC instantly turns off and won't turn on again without the aforementioned procedure. My next step is to see if the problem persists with the LCD panel and/or inverter removed from the cable's equation.

These T30s have done nothing but make me grumpy for the past 3 weeks! If anyone has any ideas or suggestions, please advise!

Thanks in advance

-Eddie Laboy

[BillMorrow]

heh..!
all i can offer is a welcome to the forum..

perhaps ray will be able to help during the daytime (california time) on friday..
uhmm, in about 8 to 10 hours..

[Harryc]

My next step is to see if the problem persists with the LCD panel and/or inverter removed from the cable's equation

Welcome to the forum. I think you are onto the right next step with these machines. Let us know how you make out.

[laboye]

Amazing, isn't it? Now that 3rd working one has a thermal problem. Good thing it's a relatively easy fix xD.

@Harryc: Thanks, will do!

[RealBlackStuff]

The problem may not necessarily be the LCD connector/connection.
Take out the modem and/or wifi cards (miniPCI and /or PCMCIA) and see if that works.
Have you run PC Doctor? http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-56222

[rkawakami]

perhaps ray will be able to help during the daytime (california time) on friday..
uhmm, in about 8 to 10 hours..

Hey, how do you know what my sleeping schedule is??

@laboye: From the description of the system running "normally" without the LCD cable plugged in, I'd have to say that it looks like there's a power problem. By any chance are you using a 54W (3.36A) power supply? If you do have the recommended 72W (4.5A) AC adapter, then it seems like something connected to the LCD ribbon cable is drawing too much power. That could be the inverter or the LCD panel.

[laboye]

Thanks for the responses, guys!

Take out the modem and/or wifi cards (miniPCI and /or PCMCIA) and see if that works. ----- Have you run PC Doctor?

Just gave it a try with no dice. As for PC doctor: Not yet, but I sure will. I'll have to give XP another go. The HD was already stuck in another machine xD.

By any chance are you using a 54W (3.36A) power supply? If you do have the recommended 72W (4.5A) AC adapter, then it seems like something connected to the LCD ribbon cable is drawing too much power.

As I buy, I've been trying to stick with new or used OEM adapters at the 4.5A mark. It looks like all the adapters I've used with these T30s are 4.5A, too. Also, the laptops have the problem with the 2 LCDs that I have. One is a standard 14.1" XGA, and the other is as well, but has the inverter and bezel with the Bluetooth features.

Important observation: With the BIOS set to boot to VGA only and no external monitor plugged in, the system powers off as described. This would seem to rule out the display devices and attributed components.

[RealBlackStuff]

Could it be that both LCD cables are faulty? They do wear out after a number of years.
AFAIK they are the same for XGA normal and XGA with BT (but different for SXGA+ T30s).

[laboye]

Both LCDs work fine in the known working [with thermal issue] T30.

[RealBlackStuff]

The LCDs may be fine, but what about the LCD cables themselves?

[laboye]

The LCDs may be fine, but what about the LCD cables themselves?

Ah. By LCD, in this case, I meant the entire unit; LCD panel, inverter, cable, case and all. I just finished reflowing a T41 (works! ), so I'll get to work on the inverter/LCD removal test.

[laboye]

Well, it seems the machines are simply allergic to LCD cables... that's not very good at all, now is it? PC Doctor ran just fine. I even fed it an ethernet conection, WiFi connection via a Cisco Mini-PCI WLAN card, CD to read and even a phone line to listen to. Everything passed. This was all while the LCD cable alone was plugged into the machine. Fn-F7 invoked presentation director, since it's installed on this image. I set it to the dual screen configuration. As soon as the window faded away, the machine simply shut off. Same symptoms and resolved with absence of power for a short time, just like before.

Are there fuses on the T30 motherboard like there are on T4x machines? Any other electrical issues with it, etc.?

-Eddie

[rkawakami]

Wow... two machines with the identical (weird) power problem. Yes, there should be a bunch of fuses on the T30 motherboard. Regular ones, the kind that blow out once and you have to replace them, and re-settable thermal fuses. However, based upon your observations, I'd have to think that it's not really a fuse problem. There may be a short on the motherboards, which when the LCD signal is activated, causes either a power surge or dropout. Since the LCD assemblies (panel, inverter and cable) work fine in your third T30, then there's something with those two motherboards.

Grasping at straws here, but what's the BIOS and Embedded Controller versions of those two systems?

[thinkpadict]

Hi everyone

I'm from LatinAmerica

My T30 2366-91U also shows the same symptoms of Laboye's T30. I did the tests he mentioned, and actually got the same results, with the difference that I do not have more than one LCD and/or inverter to try. Additionally, I add that my battery indicator to blink between 1 and 3 times before laptop turning off.

I wonder if there is a wiring diagram from motherboard to LCD for this model.
Does anyone have any idea can be the problem?

I beg your pardon for my bad english and thanks in advance
Billy

[rkawakami]

@thinkpadict: Welcome to thinkpads.com!

Circuit schematics (wiring diagrams) are not available, to the best of our knowledge. Problems like this are usually solved by replacing pieces one at a time or by a very close visual inspection of the motherboard (looking for any burnt or loose parts).

[thinkpadict]

Thanks Ray for your reply

Could it be problem the thermal shutdown of processor due to poor heat dissipation?
I've been watching the "Hardware Maintenance Manual (P / N: 92P1840)" between pages 81 and 84 is procedure to change the Fan Assembly and Thermal Sheet, but I do not have a good heat sink compound at this moment.

If someone can try this, could give me results while I can do on my computer?
Thanks again.

[laboye]

Hi all. Sorry for the late reply. I just got an X40 in the mail to wrench on (It's one beautiful machine! Buuut... its a mess... and, as I've learned, the victim of a *coffeeee spiiiiill* noooo! )

Well, these T30 have driven me mad! The 3rd machine won't start now. It POSTs and halts with an "0190 Critical Low-Battery Alert" message... with no battery in the machine. Try to turn it on with a battery, and the power light flashes... and thats it (AC power or not).*SIGH*

@rkawakami: My personal machine was using the latest: BIOS v2.10 & ECP 1.07. The other machine was using v2.01 and ECP 1.01.

"was" because I have listed them on eBay. To get them working, I'd probably need a new motherboard... which pitches this project waaaay out of budget. When I bought T30 #2, it merely had a CCFL problem... Either way, I can't stand to disassemble these once again.

@thinkpadict: Some of the first signs of this problem really would make a technician suspect thermal problems, but since I've delved so deep into these 2 machines, I think is has something to do with a hardware malfunction related to power distribution (I, personally, can't get much more specific than that).

Thanks for all the replies, guys! It's pretty awesome finding a community of other ThinkPad maniacs.

Regards,

-Eddie

[vanaya]

Not to get off thread too much, but good luck with the X40. I just revived a friends Presario x1300 from an apple juice spill. Clean that thoroughly and hopefully you will have a spiffy new X40!

[laboye]

Heh. Thanks. I'll have to open up another thread for that X40. I bought the sucker for $53 USD shipped on eBay! Description said it had a screen problem. Once I got it and powered it on... well the screen sure didn't come on. Nothing much else did either... In fact, the LCD looks fine... *sigh*

I basically do the exact same 'projects' on laptops that you guys do here, but I do them on a smaller timeframe to keep things pumping. This means, however, that sometimes I score on deals... and sometimes I don't. I'm trying to make enough money to be able to buy excessive amounts of ThinkPad parts to have on hand. The T30s here had an intended turnaround time of.. er... 2 weeks. 7 weeks later, I came a-typing to you guys.

[tracker]

Hi,
I have successfully repaired a few T30s just by swapping bits around and once i find the nasty problem parts ,i reflow all visible solder joints with generous amounts of flux and leaded solder.

Brittle solder joints due to leadfree mixtures are to blame.
Leadfree solder joints are hard( not flexible like leaded solder )and micro cracks develop easily , when mobo experience shocks,knocks, vibrations ,etc as often happens with laptops, reflowing is only way to solve it

Cheers