T23 Only works if battery removed.

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newyorkpaulie · #1 Post by **newyorkpaulie** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 6:47 am

I bought a (non-working) T23 for the LCD, which turned out not to be the SXGA type I wanted, so I put it back together and was surprised that now it worked. I finally realized that the difference was leaving out the battery, because when I put it back in it would no longer boot. I guess I'll have to keep it as a spare (how to sell it with this bugaboo?). It's a 2647-HNU which would make it top-of-the-line if it still had the SXGA screen. The one it has though is in perfect condition (brilliant and blemish-free). I'm just posting this as an FYI and for anyone's thoughts.

Sandstorm83 · #2 Post by **Sandstorm83** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:40 am

Maybe the battery is completely dead?
I remember this happening once I completely drained and killed the battery on my T22 a few years ago. I had to use it without the battery until I installed a new one.

newyorkpaulie · #3 Post by **newyorkpaulie** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:46 am

Sandstorm83 wrote:Maybe the battery is completely dead?
I remember this happening once I completely drained and killed the battery on my T22 a few years ago. I had to use it without the battery until I installed a new one.

Nope. I tried another one that I knew was OK.

#4 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:29 am

Check the inductors, they might be loose.

#5 Post by **rkawakami** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:41 am

I don't believe that I've ever encountered this type of bug on a T23, or any other Thinkpad. Does the system appear to charge the battery (the green LED on the right hinge is lit)? And does "it would not longer boot" mean that it at least powers up somewhat but fails to display the IBM splash screen, access BIOS and/or load an OS?

About the only battery-related failure that it common with the T23 is the inductor in the charging circuit coming loose from the motherboard. That usually results in a system which otherwise operates fine but is no longer able to charge the battery.

virge · #6 Post by **virge** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 1:29 pm

Sounds similar to the problem here: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=78826

newyorkpaulie · #7 Post by **newyorkpaulie** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:02 pm

virge wrote:Sounds similar to the problem here: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=78826

Not just similar, it's exactly the same.

virge · #8 Post by **virge** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:18 pm

newyorkpaulie wrote:Not just similar, it's exactly the same.

Maybe I can contribute something some additional information. I'm the proud new owner of the T23 board that's described in the other thread.

I used a T23 base and swapped out a bad motherboard (powers on, fan spins, but nothing else) for the one with battery issues. Out of curiosity, I tried booting with a battery... lo and behold, it booted right up. Tried it a few more times with battery installed, alternated AC plugged/unplugged. No problems at all. As to why it works not and not before... your guess as good as mine. I bought it to run as a desktop and share my external drives/printers over the network. I wasn't concerned with the battery issue at all since it would always be plugged in. I've had the T23 running for about a week now (battery removed) on my network.

newyorkpaulie · #9 Post by **newyorkpaulie** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:06 pm

virge wrote:
newyorkpaulie wrote:Not just similar, it's exactly the same.

Maybe I can contribute something some additional information. I'm the proud new owner of the T23 board that's described in the other thread.

I used a T23 base and swapped out a bad motherboard (powers on, fan spins, but nothing else) for the one with battery issues. Out of curiosity, I tried booting with a battery... lo and behold, it booted right up. Tried it a few more times with battery installed, alternated AC plugged/unplugged. No problems at all. As to why it works not and not before... your guess as good as mine. I bought it to run as a desktop and share my external drives/printers over the network. I wasn't concerned with the battery issue at all since it would always be plugged in. I've had the T23 running for about a week now (battery removed) on my network.

So it's the base not the board? Do you think putting the board I have into another base would match your results?

#10 Post by **Harryc** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 6:50 pm

virge, that's just awesome that it works for you ... my luck wasn't so good with that board. I wonder if it is the battery itself. The one I used for that machine I am still using in another T23, but it is definitely not an original IBM part.

virge · #11 Post by **virge** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:14 pm

Since the motherboard didn't work properly while with Harryc, and it appears to do so now-- the problem may be with one of the other components. I think the non-OEM battery is a good guess. I have an OEM battery. You can also try disconnecting all the "extra" components like the ethernet card, mini-pci, etc. Basically I got a bare board from Harryc... of course, my parts are pulled from a machine that had a bad motherboard as well.

old sparky · #12 Post by **old sparky** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:17 pm

Hi y'all!

There is a ps. to this topic....

I got the T23 MB from virge a few weeks ago, along with the base, w/ 0 drives; he had donated the display to a worthy cause. I parted out my T20 and married the XGA display and drives to the T23 base. Virge thought that the quirks of this MB that Harryc and others previously experienced had gone away.

I successfully loaded XPP, with a good IBM battery AND AC adapter connected. After running all the updates and then trying for the first time to boot from battery....NOTHING! (He's b-a-c-k!!)

Here's what I now observe (sound familiar?...but read on):
1. Will NOT boot with battery installed, boots ONLY with AC adapter attached, HOWEVER-
2. If boot is started with battery out, and then battery is attached while booting, the T23 boots fine.
3. If #2 is followed, a) battery will charge normally, b) if AC adapter is then unplugged, T23 will run on battery (!!), c) can RESTART from battery without re-attaching AC adapter(!!!)
4. HOWEVER, if a full shut down is done, T23 must be rebooted according to item #2 again.

This certainly does not fit either a fuse or inductor failure pattern. I did pick up a MAX1631 IC in order to replace that component, if necessary. I checked the board visually, but now need to use a magnifier for a closer look.

Anyone have any further thoughts?

#13 Post by **Harryc** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:22 pm

Sounds familiar.

Paul Pennington · #14 Post by **Paul Pennington** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:11 pm

How about this theory: The processor chip in the battery has died. The BIOS in the ThinkPad talks to the battery chip early in the boot process, and shuts down when it finds a battery error. The cells in the battery are actually good, and will power the ThinkPad if the startup check is bypassed. It could also be the connections on the system board to the battery chip. The main battery leads are on different wires from the chip. Does that fit the symptoms you've observed?

old sparky · #15 Post by **old sparky** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:16 pm

Paul,

Although I am only the most recent "caretaker" of this T23 MB, it has a history (see this topic) http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=78826 Among other things, it had water spilled on it at some point, precipitating this chain of events/owners/frustration.

It is unlikely that it is a battery problem per se....known good batteries have been tried by others with the same result. The one I am using is an IBM that is "green"....

One thing I forgot to mention: I had put the T23 aside for a couple of weeks with the battery installed, 100% charged. When I ran the T23 today (after booting w/o battery first), I found that the battery had been completely discharged. While Li-ion batteries will self-discharge over a period of months, it being completely dead after only two weeks points to some current leakage on the MB when the system is powered off. I hope to find a schematic diagram for power control on the T23, which will make tracing much easier. I will continue my investigation and report back (time for the lighted magnifier!)

If all else fails, I will look for a primo, issue-less T23 MB and use this one as a frisbee!

#16 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 4:48 am

sparky, ygpm

virge · #17 Post by **virge** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:46 pm

And here I was thinking I was doing sparky a favor by giving him an upgrade for his T20. Turned out to be a curse!

old sparky · #18 Post by **old sparky** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:10 pm

Virge,

No worrys! I need a challenge now and then. I can always bail at any time......

I spent several hours this AM (off work today) with a lighted magnifier going over the MB power control areas....I could not see any evidence of water tracking from the spill that precipitated all this....

My focus is turning away from the MAX1631 and am now examining the MOSFETs (and their triggers) surrounding the Main Battery DC-in circuitry. But, I have put the T23 away for now.....My eyes need a rest!

T23 Only works if battery removed.

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