T23 safe mode vs regular mode RAM

[burns334]

My T23 usually only recognizes half the RAM in regular mode (256mb) but sees all of it in safe mode 512mb). I have not checked solder joints on the slots yet but does this make sense? or is it just crap happens?

[Harryc]

Run Memtest86 and see how much RAM it reports as installed while it is testing.

[burns334]

Run Memtest86 and see how much RAM it reports as installed while it is testing.

While running in safe mode it does not find any errors with half hour test

[Harryc]

Yes, but how much RAM does it report that it is testing?

[rkawakami]

Uh, just so we're clear here... as far as I know, both memtest86 and memtest86+ (they are two separate but very similar programs) are executed under a DOS environment from a bootable medium (floppy or CD) and therefore is not subjected to "safe mode", which is a Windows operating condition. Can you please clarify how you are starting the memory diagnostic, the actual name of the program, how many module(s) you have in the T23 and what the part number(s) are?

[burns334]

Whoops, I found a memtest86 that ran under windows so I did not build a boot disk. So can I make a zip drive bootable and run it from that?

[rkawakami]

I use memtest86+, an offshoot of the original memtest86 program, that's available in several forms here:

http://www.memtest.org/

Scroll down to the "Download (Pre-built & ISOs)" section and you will find bootable ISO files, executable install programs, even for a USB memory stick. You might be able to adapt one of these to run off a ZIP drive, if you don't have a floppy or CD burner. You boot the system with whatever media you have created. The diagnostic runs under DOS so Windows is totally out of the picture. This way the maximum amount of memory is available for testing. Systems which use integrated graphics memory - not the case with the T23 - will block testing of that portion of main memory which has been set aside for the graphics.

When booted, you should see a display like this (it's from an older version of the program, v1.70, but will be similar):

http://www.kawakami-ca.com/8_chip_low_d ... _7951m.jpg

In the upper left corner of the memtest86+ display, you should see details about the system: Processor, cache and memory size. Make sure that the amount of memory shown in this display matches what you think is in the system. And it would help us if you list the module(s) that's installed in your T23 so we can double-check that it's correct.

[burns334]

Rookie response here....just trying to do the easiest way possible. Do I just drag one of these iso files to a cd and then it becomes bootalble? When I said zip drive I meant a usb drive as floppy drive is not available. I don't usually burn cd's so just confused. ie I've tried for a few hours without much luck.

[Neil]

Your CD burning app will have the options to burn a "data" CD, "audio" CD or "ISO Image" CD, or something like that. Choose burn ISO Image and you will be good.

[burns334]

Thanks Neil but I need a little more help. I right clicked on the latest precompiled bootable iso (.zip) and saved to desktop, it came down as a zipped folder. I dragged the file out of the folder into a regular folder to unzip it. I then right clicked on the file and sent it to my cd drive and then clicked the "write it to the cd button and restarted computer pressing F12 to select drive to boot from and chose legacy drive.

[RealBlackStuff]

You need to choose the CD drive, legacy is a floppy drive etc.

And we are still waiting for the RAM details....

[burns334]

Second try I chose the RW/DVD drive and the drive spun up and was accessed but the laptop booted from my hard drive. The name of the file, and it is the only file on the CD is memtest86+2.11.iso

[Harryc]

You should not be able to see the iso file on the disc...just the contents. You need to burn the iso to disc as an image. I use imgburn for this.
http://www.imgburn.com/

[burns334]

Thanks for the patience guys, I now have a memtest that boots my work computer. Will bring it home with me and checkout the T23. See you can teach an old dog new tricks.

At home now and memtest runs and shows that it is testing 255M of RAM, the same as it indicated while in normal run mode. So what's the next step, take a look at the ram socket solder joints? I do have access to a stereo Nikon so I will be able to see any cracks.

[rkawakami]

Okay, back to square one...

1) How many modules do you have installed in the system?
2) What are their part numbers (or printed details on the label(s))?

[burns334]

I was trying to get to 512mb of ram and bought an additional stick of 256mb of RAM. The new stick is called "256MB PC133 CL2 16CHIP sodimm". Looking back at the add it says compatible with T20-T22, did I make a boo boo? The online manual says PC133 DIMM and it fits T20 thru T23.

[RealBlackStuff]

T20-T21-T22 use PC100 Sodimms of Low Density. These may, but probably will not work in a T23.
T23 uses PC133 Sodimms, either Low or High Density, which will not work in a T20-T21-T22.

[burns334]

T20-T21-T22 use PC100 Sodimms of Low Density. These may, but probably will not work in a T23.
T23 uses PC133 Sodimms, either Low or High Density, which will not work in a T20-T21-T22.

So the RAM I purchased is ok? Does it have to match the other RAM in any way?

[rkawakami]

The memory modules you install in the system do NOT have to match with each other in any way other than the fact that the T23 requires PC133 memory. It cannot use any PC100 module; either "low" or "high" density. Your "256MB PC133 CL2 16CHIP sodimm" module may in fact be a PC100 version. The best way to determine that would be to ONLY install that module in the system and see if it boots.

The best procedure to determine if the modules are working AND if there is any problem(s) with the memory slots is this:

- using only ONE of the modules, run memtest86+ on it for at least three complete passes through all of the tests; a 256MB module in a T23 should take about one hour to finish the tests
- assuming that no problems were found with that module, move it to the other memory slot and re-run memtest86+; one pass (~20 minutes) should be enough to determine if there's any issues with that slot
- remove the first module and install the second one and repeat the first two steps

If you do get a boot error, the 1-3-3-1 beep code which indicates missing or defective memory, then you may have found a problem. Move that module to the other slot and see if you get the same boot error. If the same module in both slots gives you errors, then that module is not suitable for use in the T23.

Some modules are compatible between T20 to T23 systems. Those would be PC133 "low density" modules, which is what your new stick's label suggests. 256MB, with 16 chips on the board, makes it "low density". However the speed is another issue. PC133 at CL2 is a fairly uncommon speed rating but PC100 at CL2 was quite common.

[burns334]

Thanks, more detective work for tonight, here is the ebay add with picture, certainly looks like it would be PC133.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0387716489

Well I took the RAM out and looked at the contacts and although I did not see open cracks like on my T30 I saw suspicious looking contacts, ie no longer smooth flowed solder in many places, so I fluxed them all and touched them all with the iron. Put the RAM back in fired it up, the system indicated 512mb and then I ran memtest and all looks good, no errors.

[RealBlackStuff]

Looks like you got away with it.
Seller never even mentioned a T23...

[burns334]

Seller said I could return and get the right one but I am confused. It looks to me like PC133 does not work in a T20, 21 or 22 or am I wrong here? ie PC100 needed in those machines.

[RealBlackStuff]

I would return it for a refund, and then buy a 512MB stick for less money!
I've bought many times from this seller: http://cgi.ebay.com/512MB-PC133-SDRAM-S ... 0468591620

PC133 normally will not work in a T20-22.

[rkawakami]

It looks to me like PC133 does not work in a T20, 21 or 22 or am I wrong here?

PC133 modules will work in the T20-T22 systems but it must be of the "low density" type. For a 256MB module, if there's 16 individual memory chips on the board, then it's low density. If the 256MB module only has 8 chips, then it's "high density" and those don't work in the T20-T22 systems. From your description, you have a low density 256MB module.

[burns334]

I would return it for a refund, and then buy a 512MB stick for less money!
I've bought many times from this seller: http://cgi.ebay.com/512MB-PC133-SDRAM-S ... 0468591620

PC133 normally will not work in a T20-22.

RealBlackStuff, is that ebay above correct ram for my machine? Not sure how to figure out the add, since is says CAS latency is 2 (blue) 3 (black)

[RealBlackStuff]

That's the very same RAM that I buy for my T23s. Either from Smile-n-Tango, or from XtremeRam, whomever is the cheaper on the day.
http://cgi.ebay.com/512MB-PC133-SDRAM-S ... 0445681828

[burns334]

Well I went and bought the correct stick of 512MB ram and just waiting for delivery but I am loosing faith in my RAM slots. The machine has gotten very flakey, sometimes it boots, sometimes it beeps and sometimes it just goes lights out. I called Hammerhead and was told that they only repair T30's as thats what they have test equipment for, can someone recommend a good shop for T23 repair just in case?

[RealBlackStuff]

We're all DIYers here...
No known shops for repairing a T23.
When you get your new RAM, do the tests as described by rkawakami on 12/08 at 12:26pm.

[burns334]

I haven't gotten the correct additional 512MB of RAM yet but the machine has really taken ill. With the original 256MB of RAM it does not boot up all the time. Sometimes it gets thru one splash screen and sometimes it get to the desktop with a locked up cursor. Sometimes only the right light flashes and it stops at a black screen with the fan running and hard drive spinning. If I take the RAM out of the machine I get the 1 3 3 1 set of beeps. I'm thinking that the RAM slots are not the problem. Not sure what to do now, I see several sellers on ebay that repair T23's, sometimes fixed price and sometimes free diagnosis and then they send repair costs. It seems if you don't fix it yourself the machine is basically a "total", $175 for a repair when you can get a good used T43 for about $250. Would someone guide me to the DIY repairs on this site?

[rkawakami]

If the times when the system appears "dead", except for the fan spinning, does the fan's speed oscillate (goes fast then slow and fast again)? If so, then that's a classic symptom for a loose inductor on the bottom side of the motherboard. The motherboard needs to be removed from the base and two specific inductors located just on the opposite side of the PCMCIA slots checked. You'll need the Hardware Maintenance Manual for the T2x system, a small Philips screwdrivers (#0 and #1), tweezers, soldering iron, solder and good eyes. Here's the first part:

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... IGR-4UYM3F (T2x HMM)