T30 - using System 1 board with Fan2 and 2.5 GHz P4M?

[Black88GTA]

Hi everyone, I'm new here. I've learned a lot from reading the forums so far, but ran into a couple issues I couldn't seem find answers to through searching. I originally posted this to an old thread, but reconsidered and figured it might be worth its own topic - so I'm reposting it here under its own heading. Old (related) thread here for reference: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=76284

I'm trying to update a T30 with a System 1 board to work with a 2.5Ghz P4M and fan 2 and had a couple of questions, mainly on how to get the fan to work properly with this setup. The following is the backstory / history on what I've done so far, skip to the end if you just want to get to the questions part.

HISTORY:
I got my T30 on Ebay, with a 1.8 Ghz processor, 40GB 4200 RPM HDD, and 2GB ram installed. The model number label on mine had been removed, so after a bit of digging with CrystalDMI, I found out that it is a 2366-41U. According to the T30 HMM, this machine is using a System 1 board. It was working properly, but I wanted it to be faster so I purchased a FRU 91P8908 fan (replacing my existing 46L4753) and a 2.5 Ghz P4M on Ebay, and installed them both with some Arctic Silver Ceramique compound on the CPU core. The computer powered up fine, but the CPU seemed to be capped at 2.2 Ghz.

So, I updated the BIOS and embedded controller to the latest versions (BIOS from 2.02 to 2.10, and the embedded controller from 1.02 to 1.07). This fixed that problem, and the computer is now showing that it's running at 2.50 Ghz. However, I seem to be having the same problem everyone else reports - the Fan2 I installed doesn't seem to play nice with a System 1 board, and the processor runs hot. So to be safe, I installed TPFC v0.33 to keep an eye on things. According to that, the computer idles at around 52C, but at a moderate load (installing .NET Framework 2.0) I hit 71 deg C. The fan doesn't seem like it's working as hard as it should be at those kinds of temps. I read in this thread that the SMBIOS chip containing the hardware information can be modified using the IBM HMD, and that this could possibly fix the issue.

I found a disk image online of (allegedly) IBM HMD 1.72, but couldn't get it to boot from it - the filelist of that one seems to be missing the command.com and config.sys. So I then tracked down HMD ver 1.69 and booted the computer with that just to see what would happen (I was not planning on changing any settings yet). This one loaded fine, but when I go into the option to update the hardware identifier, it is reporting that the EEPROM is write protected and not allowing me to get into it. And that's where I currently sit, as my limited knowledge has run out.

QUESTIONS:
What are some appropriate temp settings to program the TPFC .ini file with for use with a P4M in a T30? Google isn't giving me much. Fan noise is secondary, I just want it to run cool under load.
Is HMD v1.69 fully compatible with the T30? If not, where can I obtain a newer version?
How can I disable the write protection on my SMBIOS chip so I can add to it?
Related - can I put the hardware identifier of a System 2 mainboard in the SMBIOS of my System 1 board to hopefully make the fan behave, without messing anything else up?

Sorry if any of these are repeats, I wasn't able to locate much through searching. Thanks in advance for any help...

[RealBlackStuff]

The HMD should give you instructions on how to make it work.
As yours is of dubious origin (and illegal by the way...), apparently the instructions are missing.
Either way, this topic may not be discussed, as this is proprietary software from IBM/Lenovo.

Messing with the BIOS in any which way will not solve your temp-problems.
Go back to a 2.00GHz CPU, and get a System-2 motherboard with matching System-2 fan, problem solved.
Anything higher than 2.00GHz is running too hot.

[Black88GTA]

The HMD should give you instructions on how to make it work.
As yours is of dubious origin (and illegal by the way...), apparently the instructions are missing.
Either way, this topic may not be discussed, as this is proprietary software from IBM/Lenovo.

Messing with the BIOS in any which way will not solve your temp-problems.
Go back to a 2.00GHz CPU, and get a System-2 motherboard with matching System-2 fan, problem solved.
Anything higher than 2.00GHz is running too hot.

Thanks for the reply. There are instructions, but I tried what it said a few times, and nothing. Maybe I just wasn't doing it right. Based on references found around the internet, I actually thought the HMD was along the lines of a boot disk or hardware utility distributed by IBM / Lenovo. I didn't look for it on their site, because I was specifically interested in older versions which may have better compatibility with a T30. Didn't know it was not really kosher to use it. My apologies for breaking forum rules.

I was only interested in this because i had read on here that someone had messed around with the SMBIOS and BIOS on theirs and had actually gotten the CPU to run cooler - although that person was using a system 2 board. Mine being a system 1, I was curious to see if this had been tried already, and whether or not they had any success. Don't want to venture into uncharted territory and brick my machine.

I'm not giving up yet though - for the application I want to use this PC for, I'd like all the speed I can get. I don't mind tinkering with it. I might try to just look for a cheap system 2 board to swap in and see what happens.

[RealBlackStuff]

Your T30 will benefit most from max. RAM (2x 1GB) and a fast hard disk (7200rpm with 4MB/8MB cache).
That oldie with 4200rpm is the real bottleneck.

[Black88GTA]

Your T30 will benefit most from max. RAM (2x 1GB) and a fast hard disk (7200rpm with 4MB/8MB cache).
That oldie with 4200rpm is the real bottleneck.

Thanks for the tips. I figured my HDD was probably part of the problem (plus I needed more space anyway) so I ordered a 5400 RPM 160GB WD Scorpio w/ 8MB cache, which just showed up this morning. Hopefully that will speed things up somewhat. I couldn't find anything faster in PATA, unfortunately. I already have 2GB of ram installed, so I'm good there.

At this point, I'll see how much I can gain from the new hard disk, and go from there. Assuming I kept this 2.5 processor, would the old HSF perform better with a system 1 board than my new one which was designed for a system 2? I still plan on playing with settings in tpfc to see what I can do with it. If I can't get it working properly, I will reluctantly end up reverting back to the old 1.8 I guess, but I want to try everything I can to make it work first before doing that.

[jronald]

The sweet spot on this machine, is 1.25 gig of Ram and 2.0 gig processor. With these specs it will run all day long, everyday and give you no issues. This configuration will do 95% of everything you throw at it. Everything done over and above, will make the thing faster, but the bang for the buck is gone.

I started years ago in a Hot Rod shop. We had a saying..."how fast can you afford to go?"

Ron

[Black88GTA]

The sweet spot on this machine, is 1.25 gig of Ram and 2.0 gig processor. With these specs it will run all day long, everyday and give you no issues. This configuration will do 95% of everything you throw at it. Everything done over and above, will make the thing faster, but the bang for the buck is gone.

I started years ago in a Hot Rod shop. We had a saying..."how fast can you afford to go?"

Ron

Thanks Ron. This machine is actually going to be used for a couple things.

First, I will probably use it to run datalogging software on my Trans Am for tuning purposes. I haven't yet learned the ins and outs of chip tuning (I will one of these days), but I was able to successfully run a couple trial logs with a very old P1 100Mhz machine. However this computer was laggy and not very responsive as you might imagine, hence the upgrade.

Second (and more importantly) it will be a BMW DIS-GT1 clone. It will be used to run diagnostics and flash modules on my car ('94 BMW 840Ci) and maybe other cars as needed. The T30 is the machine spec'd by BMW for this purpose, and all of the testing / programming software (Unix based I think) is optimized to run with the T30 hardware. If not for this, I'd use a newer / faster laptop. I'm sure it could be made to work with something else (and people have done it), I just didn't want to run into any problems where the software gets hung up on some unidentified hardware item on the new machine that was not present on the system it was originally designed for and screw things up.

All of that said, I'd like for it to run as quickly and reliably as possible - flashing expensive and hard to find BMW PCMs kind of gives me the willies as it is, and I'd like to keep the actual flash / programming times to a minimum, hence the "need for speed". Based on what everyone is saying here though, it seems I'd be best suited to drop back to a 2.0 Ghz processor, although I'm not done playing with this one yet :p

Thanks for everyone's help so far on this, it is appreciated.

[jronald]

According to this, the BMW software runs fine on a C600 Dell. (PIII/256 mb ram)
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/ar ... 02546.html
So the T30 with 2.0 and 1.25 gig it should fly.

We run a CF18 at the shop with far less specs than the T30. Toyota and Ford fly. GM with all the extra crap they have written into there bloatware creeps, but that was expected when we loaded it.

Ron

[RealBlackStuff]

Just reading through your post again, the max. for a T30 was 2.4GHz (Intel Pentium 4 M [for Mobile] SL6VC).
That 2.5 may perhaps work, but was probably designed for use in a desktop with a big cooler, NOT for a laptop!
That would cause your overheating problems.
What is it's Intel number, SL6xx?

[Black88GTA]

According to this, the BMW software runs fine on a C600 Dell. (PIII/256 mb ram)
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/ar ... 02546.html
So the T30 with 2.0 and 1.25 gig it should fly.

We run a CF18 at the shop with far less specs than the T30. Toyota and Ford fly. GM with all the extra crap they have written into there bloatware creeps, but that was expected when we loaded it.

Ron

I will admit that I wasn't sure of the system requirements for these programs, as they are not exactly well published. Good to hear that it runs even on a PIII machine. I won't feel so bad now about dropping back to the old 1.8 if I have to. I was reading online about people in some cases taking forever to program some modules (albeit on much newer cars than mine with more complex systems involving more code). This sort of worries me because in the event that the computer crashes or loses power or something during programming, the module is ruined.

Just reading through your post again, the max. for a T30 was 2.4GHz (Intel Pentium 4 M [for Mobile] SL6VC).
That 2.5 may perhaps work, but was probably designed for use in a desktop with a big cooler, NOT for a laptop!
That would cause your overheating problems.
What is it's Intel number, SL6xx?

I researched this a little bit as well before I got it. According to a couple sources I found online, the heat dissipation for the P4M is the same (35W) from 2.2 - 2.6 Ghz, so it shouldn't (in theory) be any different than a 2.2 in terms of heat produced, so I figured it would be adaptable to this machine with a little work. This particular CPU was a pull from a Dell Precision M50 laptop. The Intel number on it is SL6P2.

[RealBlackStuff]

Could also be that the chipset does not support faster than 1.9GHz on a Board 1 and goes haywire.
Whichever, you run a CPU out of spec on a board that was not made for it.
Draw your own conclusions.

[FragrantHead]

I would suspect that, even though 2.2 - 2.6 processors are rated at the same TDP, there will be differences in heat, just that they all stay within the same TDP. Be that as it may, I have a Thinkpad T30, 2GHz, which is frequently loaded at 100% CPU usage at just under 70C. I have the machine for over 7 years, so that temperature is not problematic. It's from the mid 70s that the fan kicks into high gear to bring the temps down (my older BIOS: 2.03b). With my machine I can only do that by playing a certain game that stresses the graphics chip as well. As far as I remember those mobile chips are rated at 100C maximum, as opposed to 75C for the desktop chips. You probably won't want to approach that number, but low 70s sounds fine to me.

[ajkula66]

A "proper" 2.5 Ghz CPU for T30 would be SL6WY...although I wouldn't run that on type I board...

[singbad]

Hi,
what is so special with car diagnostics software that it requires special laptop models? I've seen (Ebay) sellers offering HDD drives with Mercedes Star Diagnostic or XENTRY claiming it can only run on a Thinkpad T23 or T30 or on a Dell D620. AFAIK the On Board Diagnose car adapters connect to the RS232 serial port, there should be nothing special with that.

ThinkPads produced from 1994 onwards have a NS16550A compatible uart (Thinkwiki) with a max speed of 115,200 bps. However, NS16550A overclocking is possible, up to 1.5Mbps. Could uart overclocking capability be what makes the difference?

Best regards,
Singbad

[ajkula66]

ThinkPads after T30 don't have the serial port...that's what the whole thing is about....

[singbad]

ok, but why Thinkpad OR Dell D620?

I googled a bit and I learnt the car diagnose software in question communicates at speeds of 14,400 to 19,200 bps.

[RealBlackStuff]

The Dell D620 also has a Serial Port.

[singbad]

And it has a Core 2 Duo cpu which makes it come closest to the T30

EDIT:
Here's what I found in a car forum:

I have installed DAS a few times now on HP and Sony laptops, it doesnt really care what hardware it runs under, as long as there is a valid rs232 port. The pre-isntalled china knockoffs need a t30 as the windows XP has been cloned off that system so its less hassle when you add the HD to your laptop.

Any laptop will be fine, just do a recovery install over the top of the preisntall and your up

This de-mystifies my car software question.

[RealBlackStuff]

And it has a Core 2 Duo cpu which makes it come closest to the T30

Not by a long stretch!
The T30 with a P4-M is much older than the D620 with CD or C2D.