And vicariously live you shall.Scratch wrote:... i can live vicariously through Pundit for the time being.
Scratch wrote:T'Pads are the closest PC to a Mac to me...meaning I feel that the customization and software enhancements give these machines a better feel and, most often, the user a better experience than the vast majority of portable systems out there.
Precisely! I have had a lot of contact lately with tech support for the three new 60 series ThinkPads I have. The experience has been very mixed. Sometimes I call and it's like the old IBM tech support, very good work from experienced people. Then other times, very poor work from obviously untrained, inexperienced people.Scratch wrote:I'm happy with my T60p, though I wish that Lenovo would step up quicker in dealing with the problems that these systems have.
A full recovery is needed from each manufacturer in my opinion as Apple has descended in the level of tech support and customer satisfaction in recent times.Scratch wrote:I'm hoping for a full recovery because I like having the option to be very satisfied with 2 very different systems that are equally effective in their respective and sometimes overlapping arenas.
Scratch wrote:I think that both systems are suffering the pains of the rush to market.
I am really happy that I can also live vicariously through pundit....and yes, only for the time being.Scratch wrote:I think an MBP is in my future when the product comes into its own and i can live vicariously through Pundit for the time being.
-WolfYes, but what of the few people who buy the Apple machine, and replace OS X with something like an XGL friendly distribution? Some people might want both a shiny exterior and a shiny interior.nhidog wrote:Thinkpad T60 + Linux + XGL = one gorgeous machine. Takes a bit of time, but it was well worth it. Just take a look at what my desktop is capable of. Ubuntu rocks!
pundit-pundit wrote:Yes, but what of the few people who buy the Apple machine, and replace OS X with something like an XGL friendly distribution? Some people might want both a shiny exterior and a shiny interior.nhidog wrote:Thinkpad T60 + Linux + XGL = one gorgeous machine. Takes a bit of time, but it was well worth it. Just take a look at what my desktop is capable of. Ubuntu rocks!
Is that a software or hardware question?archer6 wrote:pundit-pundit wrote: Yes, but what of the few people who buy the Apple machine, and replace OS X with something like an XGL friendly distribution? Some people might want both a shiny exterior and a shiny interior.
How do you have your MBP configured?
I think the keyboard shortcut system is brilliant on the Mac. Highly configurable. I also personally like the position of the command key, which you hit with your thumb instead of with your pinky on a PC (all those CTRL+?? combinations).pundit wrote:Currently getting friendly with Mac OS X, but if the annoying keyboard shortcuts get to me, I will move over to Fedora Core 5.
I can't believe I'm admitting this, but I agree with you. Though it takes me a while (my fingers move elsewhere, and I often have to double-take), I spent some time on my older machine yesterday as I was transferring some files, and my pinkie did begin to strain as I had to stretch it to the bottom left of the keyboard where my cntrl key was.astro wrote:I also personally like the position of the command key, which you hit with your thumb instead of with your pinky on a PC (all those CTRL+?? combinations).
Oops... I meant to ask about the Software Config.pundit wrote:Is that a software or hardware question?archer6 wrote: pundit-
How do you have your MBP configured?
If it's a hardware: 2x2GHz, 2x1GB, 7200rpm 100GB.
If it's software: Currently getting friendly with Mac OS X, but if the annoying keyboard shortcuts get to me, I will move over to Fedora Core 5. Eventually I guess it will be identical to my T60p, except for the slightly slower processor.
Have you tried Fn-Left, Fn-Right? I think that Fn-Up and Fn-Down are also PgUp and PgDn respectively.pundit wrote:I still would like a home/end key though. Not all apps are brilliant enough to support cntrl-a/cntrl-e, and I haven't really gotten into the Applesque cmd+left/cmd+right.
you can change this easily on any windows PC to be Mac compatible with a program called Sharpkeys (www.randyrants.com). I got it to make my mac usb keyboard work on xp, but you can remap whatever key you like. It's a registry thing only so you're not running anything in the background to get this functionality.astro wrote:pundit wrote: . I also personally like the position of the command key, which you hit with your thumb instead of with your pinky on a PC (all those CTRL+?? combinations).
I'm not Pundit, but I do most of my work on a 15" PowerBook, and have a T60p at home (until linux support for it gets up to snuff.)zephyr wrote:Hi Pundit, I saw that you had owned a T60P but had returned it in favour of a Macbook Pro 15.4". I am considering something along the same lines. Some questions for you:
zephyr wrote: 1. In Windows and Linux, you can alt-tab between terminal/shell windows, but in MacOS multiple terminals are considered one application, so command-tab will not cycle between them. I saw that command-tilde will cycle unidirectionally through them but will not swap the two terminals at the top of the stack. Have you gotten accustomed to this?
I'm a post-doc researcher in computer science, and Emacs and LaTeX were the first two things I put on my PowerBook. I haven't had any problem with the BSD layer, and once I set up Apple's X11 system, things went pretty smoothly. You can configure / make /make install most software, but I would suggest looking into DarwinPorts or fink, apt-get style repositories for the Mac that have taken care of most of the pain for you.zephyr wrote: 3. I see from your personal webpage that you are a hardcore LaTeX user, so you must know your way around Linux/Unix. How do you find the MacOS BSD? Is there any weirdness with respect to the Unix-ness? Can you install new source code with a simple configure/make/make install?
I can't think of a reason.zephyr wrote: 3.5. Is there any reason at all to run Linux via dual booting or through virtualisation software?
There are many flavors of LaTeX available for OSX. I installed http://ii2.sourceforge.net/tex-index.html and Carbon Emacs Package http://homepage.mac.com/zenitani/emacs-e.html, which has very nice Japanese language suport and integrates with LaTeX well. I've also heard very good things about TeXshop, but rest assured there are many ways to get LaTeX running on your mac. Also check out BibDesk for a nice bibtex reference management tool.zephyr wrote: 5. Back to LaTeX: Am I right in assuming that I can run LaTeX on MacOS? I typically use latex, dvips, and gv on Linux or Solaris (yes, I was a grad student once too).
, PowerBook 15" 1.67 GHz G4 OSX 10.4This isn't the behaviour just for terminals, it is the behaviour for most applications. cmd-tab cycles through the apps, and cmd-tilde cycles through windows in an app. You will begin to (or at least I find myself doing so) try to keep up (un-minimiaed) only one window of each app, so cmd-tab will behave similar to alt-tab like you'd expect.zephyr wrote:1. In Windows and Linux, you can alt-tab between terminal/shell windows, but in MacOS multiple terminals are considered one application, so command-tab will not cycle between them. I saw that command-tilde will cycle unidirectionally through them but will not swap the two terminals at the top of the stack. Have you gotten accustomed to this?
It does get very very warm if the ambient temperature in the room is already warm to begin with. Right now, I'm in a cool room, and it's been on my lap for the past hour or so, and it doesn't affect me (or so I claim until it turns out I can't have kids, or something). In a warm room on the other hand, my palms will begin to sweat (and I never sweat) after a few minutes of resting on it.zephyr wrote:2. I bought a MBP from Amazon a few weeks ago, but it was outrageously hot while plugged into AC power. Do you find your MBP as hot as your T60P on either AC power or battery?
And here's where I begin to differ with Fugu. Unlike you who've seen Solaris, I have never worked on (what I'm going to call old school) Unix. I've worked on GNU/Linux over a decade now and I find Unix similar enough on the surface, but too different for comfort just underneath. There are often things that I want to do and have done over numerous years I need to read up on, and this irks me. My documentation of such trials and tribulations ought to end up here, but you knew that.zephyr wrote:3. I see from your personal webpage that you are a hardcore LaTeX user, so you must know your way around Linux/Unix. How do you find the MacOS BSD? Is there any weirdness with respect to the Unix-ness? Can you install new source code with a simple configure/make/make install?
None for virtualisation, but there is more than enough reason to dual boot Linux/remove OS X altogether. As shiny and lickable as its interface is, for one who is not used to it, it can get in the way. And more importantly, OS X's kernel is demonstrably slower than Linux for serious computing. And I mean less than half the performance in some situations. Here is a cherry picked source. [berkeley.edu]zephyr wrote:3.5. Is there any reason at all to run Linux via dual booting or through virtualisation software?
I haven't tried because I don't have any need for or interest in this.zephyr wrote:4. Have you tried the Parallels virtualisation software yet? Does Windows run briskly?
Yes, like Fugu said there are numerous TeX distributions that work. I am not entirely certain which of those is "better" and how I would go about determining that, but I have a rebuild of TeTeX for Mac OS X and an Emacs rebuild called Aquamacs that foot the bill nicely.zephyr wrote:5. Back to LaTeX: Am I right in assuming that I can run LaTeX on MacOS? I typically use latex, dvips, and gv on Linux or Solaris (yes, I was a grad student once too).
I write a lot of software the old-fashioned way that I learned in undergrad and grad school: vi open in one terminal and gcc in another. The lack of alt-tab'ing between terminal windows is a major problem with me since I do this incessantly. Bringing up Expose and clicking on one of the windows just isn't going to do it.pundit wrote:I wouldn't say I have pleasantly gotten accustomed to this, but I've started making shifts to my working style to accomodate it. And, like Fugu said, there are things like Exposé which make things a lot easier. And it turns out that you won't be minimising or quitting all applications you aren't currently working on in OS X. That's cool.
I am looking into ways to just lower my MBP's fan turn-on temperature threshold. There is no reason for it to sit this quiet when it is getting warm. I'd rather the fans just come on earlier instead. This is not a serious change, and should be a matter of editing a text file or three.
Can you give me an example of where configure/make/make install does not work for you? I assume that you would just need to provide configure with the correct directory with "--prefix=", no?It's a Unix, I suppose. But it's just that. I want a GNU/Linux, if that makes sense. There is a ton of wierdness from where I see it, and building an application is never as trivial as fetching the sources, configuring them and making them.
Is the software from Fink/DarwinPorts the source code or binaries? Are they similar to RPMs in the Linux world?But, like Fugu said, you can add additional layers like DarwinPorts and Fink to provide this functionality for you. Something I feel ought not to have been broken in the first place. But, given some time, you can get all the things you want working on there.
Actually, you can cycle through those windows with apple key-tilde key.zephyr wrote: I write a lot of software the old-fashioned way that I learned in undergrad and grad school: vi open in one terminal and gcc in another. The lack of alt-tab'ing between terminal windows is a major problem with me since I do this incessantly. Bringing up Expose and clicking on one of the windows just isn't going to do it.
.zephyr wrote:I write a lot of software the old-fashioned way that I learned in undergrad and grad school: vi open in one terminal and gcc in another. The lack of alt-tab'ing between terminal windows is a major problem with me since I do this incessantly. Bringing up Expose and clicking on one of the windows just isn't going to do it.
I tried mentioning this but it must have gotten lost in the rest of my post.frzntoz wrote:Actually, you can cycle through those windows with apple key-tilde key.
This makes life much easier as I write code in the same manner
There is no necessity to leave the keyboard (Expose) to reach an appropriate window.cmd-tab cycles through the apps, and cmd-tilde cycles through windows in an app.
Can't you ftp/scp/ssh between Windows and MacOS?taphil wrote:The problem is that I cannot easily get files into Windows or out of Windows. Shared folders, in which Windows accesses a network shared folder from OS X, crashes Windows Explorer when I try to access it. USB drives connect for a while before disappearing and causing Windows to freeze. The only way I figure to get a large number of files onto Windows is by CD, and to get files off is by email. Perhaps the software will work at some point, it is beta after all, but still has a long way to go and for now I can't bear to use it.
I already knew about command-tilde; this only cycles unidirectionally through terminal shells. When writing code I may have 5 or more files open at once, so I don't want to unidirectionally go through all of them. The alt-tab in Windows and Linux (at least with KDE) is perfect, because it swaps the last two windows in the usage stack.pundit wrote:zephyr wrote:I write a lot of software the old-fashioned way that I learned in undergrad and grad school: vi open in one terminal and gcc in another. The lack of alt-tab'ing between terminal windows is a major problem with me since I do this incessantly. Bringing up Expose and clicking on one of the windows just isn't going to do it.I tried mentioning this but it must have gotten lost in the rest of my post.frzntoz wrote:Actually, you can cycle through those windows with apple key-tilde key.
This makes life much easier as I write code in the same mannerThere is no necessity to leave the keyboard (Expose) to reach an appropriate window.cmd-tab cycles through the apps, and cmd-tilde cycles through windows in an app.
I like to read and watch movies for a long time in bed, so this means AC power is needed. Unfortunately, the MBP I purchased got uncomfortably on AC.Regarding the heat, I have been following up on those discussions as well. But I can definitely see temperature thresholds tweaking to be a much faster solution. Either that or move to a slightly cooler room, which has worked well for me so far.
And regarding building, there is so much one takes for granted as "just as is" on a Linux box that's not present on a Mac OS X box. You're assuming all your build tools are fine and in place. This is not so. You have to first get a working build-tool-set, and then take it from there.
Darwinports is like BSD's ports system or Gentoo's Portage. It consists of a collection of rulesets required to fetch and build Free software.
It depends. What sorts of things do you frequently (want to) build? If they're relatively mainstream and/or simple things, you ought to be OK.zephyr wrote:What is there about a build tool set beside a gcc/g++ compiler and make? I assume that's all you'd need. So supposing those are available (and they were when I played around with the dev tools CD), am I correct in assuming that configure/make will work fine if given the proper installation directory?
Well said,pundit wrote:And then there's Python and then there's Fortran and there are a lot of things that aren't at their best out of the box. If you're building simple things, you will be fine. If you need to build more bleeding edge stuff, you need to get a working build environment first.
And by "working," I mean "modern."
That is certainly weighing on my mind. I have a Thinkpad T60p on order that's due to arrive this week. (It has taken nearly 4 weeks since the time I placed the order, but that is a rant for a different day.) During that span I bought a MBP for kicks to try out from Amazon. I was very impressed with it, but due to its overheating, I returned it.rocketman wrote:Just in case anybody cares the 15" MacBook Pro was upgraded today. The 2.0GHz is now the low end and the 2.16GHz the high end (2.0GHz now costs what the 1.83GHz did and the 2.16GHz what the 2GHz did. so in effect a drop of $200.
There is also now a choice of displays, the standard matte version or a shiny reflective "Xbrite" type display at no extra charge.
Thanks rocketman for the heads up on this.rocketman wrote:Just in case anybody cares the 15" MacBook Pro was upgraded today. The 2.0GHz is now the low end and the 2.16GHz the high end (2.0GHz now costs what the 1.83GHz did and the 2.16GHz what the 2GHz did. so in effect a drop of $200.
There is also now a choice of displays, the standard matte version or a shiny reflective "Xbrite" type display at no extra charge.
Aaa Haa, I see...zephyr wrote:There is just something about that MBP that I can't shake. It's like an old expression I once heard, "I should just buy it now while I'm still young and foolish." I can be an old fart for the rest of my life and keep that Thinkpad, but I can only be young for a few more years of my life. Decisions, decisions...
LOL; you know...Somebody actually did get burnt like that....on their private areas. I think that it was a Dell laptop and the victim was a scientist.zephyr wrote:Hi Pundit, how do you like your MacCookBook Pro? Has it burned you yet? Have you needed skin grafts yet?
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