Thinkpads Forum

I snagged a UXGA T60p at a good price on eBay. It last tracked at the regional post office about 18 miles from here last night, so I'm not sure whether it will actually get delivered today. But surely by tomorrow.

That will give me two T60p machines, and I'll get happily rid of my T61. I can't stand widescreens. My sister, still using my old T30, will find the T61 to be a spectacular improvement.

The new guy only has a T2600 processor, and I'll probably want to upgrade it. The 7xxx processors are going for far less than when I upgraded my current T60p to a 7300 CPU.

I'm somewhat confused by the upgrade, even though I did it before. There are a lot of folks speaking highly of the 7600. Aren't the "odd numbered" processors like my 7300 better than the "even numbered" ones like the 7600, because they have 800 MHz. busses rather than 667 MHz? Am I missing something subtle? Anyway, I'd welcome thoughts as to the best upgrade - bang for the buck and all that.

And how do I tell a laptop 7600 from a desktop 7600? Is it purely the word "Mobile" in the processor description, or is there some other more definitive method of purchasing the correct product.

Once I throw in an SSD, which made a nice improvement on my current T60p, I hope to be set for quite a while. By the time both T60p machines either die or are preposterously anemic for future standards, perhaps we'll be able to purchase newer-technology Thinkpads other than 16:9 atrocities.

Art

T60/R60/Z61 need the even C2D numbers: T7200,T7400 and T7600 (the fastest).
You also put in the slower and cheaper T5500 and T5600 if you still want/need C2D but not necessarily the speed.
T7200 gives you the best bang for your buck in this series. Any faster, and it only gets hotter!

T61/R61 need the (usually) odd C2D numbers: T7100, T7250, T7300, T7500, T7700, T7800 (all Merom), and T8100, T8300, T9300 and T9500 (all Penryn). There are also T5xxx CPUs for this series.

There are a few more CPUs that would fir in the above, but these are the more common ones.
You should download the T60 and T61 HMMs, it's all in there.
You can NOT mix T60 with T61 CPUs (or v.v.), they are not compatible due to different FSB.
I'm sure there is not a T7300 in your T60p (typo?).

RealBlackStuff wrote:I'm sure there is not a T7300 in your T60p (typo?).

...possible only if the T60p is a frankenpad with a T61 MB (?)

and agree with RBS the T7200 is the best bang for your buck in this series

RealBlackStuff wrote:T60/R60/Z61 need the even C2D numbers: T7200,T7400 and T7600 (the fastest).

I'm sure there is not a T7300 in your T60p (typo?).

You're probably right - not a typo, just user stupidity. The T60p is in the office, and I've just scooted home to pick up the new one. I'll confirm in a few minutes when I get back.

The T61 has a T7300, so it was doubtlessly my confusing all my Thinkpads.

The new one is gorgeous; it's in beautiful condition. I was worried that my aging eyes would have trouble with UXGA, but first glance seems OK. I'll use it for a while before I replace its XP with 7.

First thoughts: this is my first look at a T6x extended battery. (I virtually never use battery, but perhaps it will be nice on an airplane or when I can't get an outlet at a coffee shop.) It is rather grotesquely huge, making the equivalent on my X61 look petite by comparison.

This guy also doesn't have the side bulge on the lid for a cellular connection. That's fine with me, as I have no data plan on my rarely-used prepaid cellular phone, but I thought it was standard.

I think this will be a great acquisition.

Art

Confirmed - the old one has a 7600. Sorry to look like a doofus!

Art

The T7600 is a good processor, I just sold one today in fact. I had mine posted here in the marketplace for $90, with no takers or offers, so I posted it on ebay for 95 and it went fast.

I may be able to get more if your interested, but if your happy with a slower one, then save your money and perhaps spend it on an SSD, just be careful what kind you get, some are known for data loss and crc errors.

As for the widescreen, I love the T61 15.4", either wsxga or wuxga are great screens and I believe they will outlast an IPS. I've had mine running 24/7 for almost 4 years and it still looks bright as new, and it's viewing angles are very good, in my opinion.

Well, this isn't looking as good as I thought, after about ten hours of struggle. Let me babble - this may be long.

First of all, there's a screen flaw in the lower left, about half the size of my little finger. It is visible on light backgrounds, and strangely not particularly obvious on dark.

I applied 94 XP updates, and the machine wouldn't boot. Safe mode hung at AVG virus dlls. I went in with a Linux disk and removed two AVG dlls from windows/system32/drivers. The machine came up.

I removed AVG from the control panel and rebooted. The machine came up.

I went to install MSE. Microsoft wanted to first install some software, so I let it. The machine hung at boot. I couldn't get out of it.

I gave up and recovered from the recovery partition. It took a few minutes. The machine would not boot.

I installed Windows 7. The machine booted. I installed 101 updates. The machine booted.

I installed the next round of updates, and installed Lenovo System Update, selecting a few "reasonable" updates. The machine failed to boot. I used System Restore to go back a little, running it from recovery, and the machine came up. But any attempts to further update the system would fail. Various updates, including Win7 SP1, would not successfully install.

I burned a newer Win7 Professional + SP1 DVD. I installed it and the machine came up.

I ran Windows update and let it install a few important updates. The machine will not boot. That's where I am right now.

I see I have BIOS 2.13. I can't seem to connect to Lenovo to see if that's relatively recent, or if I should somehow (in the absence of a running machine) update the BIOS.

And could this weird "Computrace" thingie that pops up when I go into the BIOS be relevant.

We Are Not Happy.

Art

I think it's very likely you have hardware failure here. Is this after changing your CPU? or is this a new machine that you just got? or is this an existing problem that your trying to fix?

I apologize for not re-reading the entire thread, but if you just changed your cpu and are having this behavior, go back and remove and reseat it, making sure to lock the chip in securely, but the "lever" is not a screw, even though it looks like one, it will turn until it reaches the fully closed position that stop, if you try to go further you could damage your board.

Also, did you use some good thermal paste on the chip? and not to much, just enough to cover it all with as little overspread as possible. Artic Silver #5 is what I use and the systems I build consistantly run cooler, even cooler then systems with new lenovo warranty boards installed.

ps. I'd also remove and reseat anything else you touched, ram, drives, wires etc...

This is a used machine that was just received yesterday. No changes have been made.

I updated the BIOS from 2.13 to the latest 2.27. That let the previously-hanging Windows start normally. After the next round of updates completed and the boot went normally, I had real hopes that I was out of the woods.

Alas, the next set of updates (which will gradually stop, I hope!) brought back the problem.

I'm currently running PC Doctor, and I'm on the 46th of 46 tests. Unfortunately, that's a memory test that has been running for several hours and is only 59% done. So I don't yet know if anything faulty has been detected. If not, I'll really be at my wit's end. I suppose I could open 'er up and reseat everything that moves, but one would hope PC Doctor would detect an issue.

Art

Art, what were the terms of purchase? I'd say this unit has issues and unless you bought it as-is, you might want to talk to the seller. I'd also advise that any used PC you buy be tested as it is before doing any updates, specifically bios updates. You have an unstable computer and flashing your bios while the system is unstable is risky at best, foolish at worse.

If there is no hope of return/exchange, then I would start with the ram, if you have more then one sodimm, install one at a time and see if the system will run stable.

Can you also describe what happens when it fails to boot? be specific, how far does it get, does windows start to load and then gives you a bluescreen? That is a common problem if SATA drivers aren't installed on WinXP, but it's not intermittent, or at least it's never presented that way for me. Usually these intermittent problems are hardware, but maybe someone here with more experience on T60 models might know of a possible cause. I do know that some of the older thinkpads had "flexing" issues where solder connections would break on the system board, but I don't know if this is common on your system, but if you can rule out ram, harddrive, optical drive, and any other cards as the cause, then you can be pretty sure it's your system board, either a failed component, or solder. They can be fixed, but it might be cheaper to get a good used board in that case.

Good luck, and I hope you get some more opinions, we have a lot of experienced T60 people here

ps. If you do want either a system board, or a complete t60p, let me know, I can probably help you.

Thanks for the nice reply. No particular terms of purchase - a typical eBay transaction.

When it fails, the Windows 7 "Starting Windows" screen comes up, and that's it. The hard drive light goes out and nothing else happens. From the obvious hot air coming out the side, I suspect it's in a processor loop but that's just a hunch.

In safe mode, the last thing to load is CLASSPNP.

I don't see any relevant errors from the now-completed PC Doctor run. The memory test in particular seemed quite thorough.

Art

If it wasn't specifed as not working, or in need of repair, then you can probably return it. I could be wrong, but this sounds like a thermal problem, could be cracked solder connection or a bad component, but the most likely solution would be a new system board.

You're probably limited in the time you have to report it to the seller, so I'd do that, see what they say.

I'd try a Linux disc. That should tell you if it's a hardware or software issue, but it sounds like a hardware issue, at least as far as I can tell from 1500 miles away. Do you have a link to the item on eBay?

ZaZ wrote:it sounds like a hardware issue, at least as far as I can tell from 1500 miles away. Do you have a link to the item on eBay?

It's item #270867056552

It is looking more and more like a thermal issue; after failing, if I power down, wait a while, and blow into the side vent (which probably makes me feel like I'm doing something useful), it seems to come up. I haven't yet pulled it apart to see if there's anything obvious in the fan area. And I've written the seller.

Edit: seller responded and is very cooperative. He'll take the machine back if necessary. He's leaving town for a week, and is encouraging me to keep testing to isolate the problem. So I have time to take a look at the HSF.

Art

I'm with ZaZ: boot a Linux disk, first with the hard drive removed, then with one installed.

Heat issue doesn't seem like the culprit to me, because an overheating machine - especially a T60p which is hot to begin with - will boot but shut down as soon as the sensors smell the possibility of overcooking the components.

I'd remove the wireless card and re-seat the RAM or test the machine with *known good* RAM, one stick at the time.

Good luck.

The seller is going to swap the machine with another one after the holidays; he's leaving town for a while. I think my concerns about the screen flaw were the kicker, and he was exceptionally cooperative, asking only that I pay the postage. That's fair to me.

I suppose I could try booting a Linux CD as an experiment the next time the failure occurs, just as an academic exercise. Now that it's finally up to date for updates, my need to reboot during use will be minimal, so I don't expect to routinely see any failures.

The fact that PC Doctor ran without incident on all tests makes it difficult to accept your non-thermal hypothesis. I didn't try anything heroic like the Intel processor stress tests, however. Reseating everything seems reasonable, if I open it enough to check the HSF.

For the original issue of this thread, I think I'll worry about an SSD (once everything has settled down) before upgrading processors. Indeed, I might just swap the 2600 with the 7600 in my existing T60p, which presumably will become my backup machine. This 1600x1200 gets very addictive, very fast.

I hate to tell you, but PC Doctor is far from failure-proof. Many common ailments - including GPU detachment on T4x units - are not routinely detected, especially in early stages.

You could use it to test the thermal sensors and fan, though. I'm fairly certain that all of those tests will come back clean.

Good luck.