Crazy Router?

[taichi]

Although this is not actually a ThinkPad question, my T60P is attached to a router that is acting strangely.

In a nutshell, I have been having periodic disconnections from my router, primarily when in wireless mode. I have changed channels, changed power settings, and done all those things which are routinely suggested. When I switched to ethernet, there have been dramatically fewer intermittent episodes, only one so far... knock on wood. Until that one disconnection, I figured that the wireless portion of the router had been burned out, but this single intermittent episode on ethernet obviously contradicts that. Still, ethernet has been far more stable.

The router, when having one of its fits does its flashing LED dance, ending up with only the power light on. Could this be a problem with the DSL line, or does the evidence points to a bad router? The router is a four or five-year-old G 2Wire.

Also, are there any N mpcie cards that will work in the T60P without a modified BIOS?

[TuuS]

I believe there is an atheros card that will work, it was marketed as thinkpad wireless as apposed to Intel. I don't know the number, but someone will surely be by soon that does.

As for your router, many 2wire modes are known for this, are you running any bittorrent or filesharing clients? Some "weak" routers just seem to fall on their face when asked to deal with many concurrent connections attempts, but many of these issues are addressed in firmware updates, so that would be the first place I'd look, but you can buy an "n" router very cheap these days so that might be your best bet.

[RealBlackStuff]

Get an ASUS router, you can update their firmware with DD-WRT firmware, or rather the better firmware from Tomato.
http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Installation
http://tomatousb.org/doc:build-types
I have an Asus RT-N16 Gigabit Wireless-N with TomatoUSB firmware, that has been rock solid from day one.
Got it early September this year and it has not rebooted once, nor given me any problems.

[taichi]

Thank you, gentlemen, for your responses.

A few posts down I noticed reference to the Atheros N card that will supposedly work without a BIOS mod. Is it relatively easy to install a new mpcie card?

As far as my 2Wire router is concerned. I have only the simplest connections... either to a USB G adapter (in lieu of my defective internal card), or through an ethernet cable. I'm wondering if some setting might have changed, and may be affecting things, but I am aware of 2Wire's reputation for intermittent behavior. I'm not using bit torrent, but is it possible that I might have file sharing engaged on my router without knowing it?

I was considering the Linksys WRT54GL router, as it is the only router that seems to have no critics on Amazon. I can't find any N routers that seem to have the rocksolid reliability of the Linksys WRT54GL, at least according to Amazon and other sources.

[RealBlackStuff]

That Linksys is by now an older generation router, albeit one with many followers.
It is also limited to -G speeds.
Look for a router with Gigabit ethernet and wifi-N now,sooner or later you're going to need it.
Additional benefit of some Asus routers (like mine): the extra 1 or 2 USB ports for e.g. a printer or NAS.

[taichi]

That Linksys is by now an older generation router, albeit one with many followers.
It is also limited to -G speeds.
Look for a router with Gigabit ethernet and wifi-N now,sooner or later you're going to need it.
Additional benefit of some Asus routers (like mine): the extra 1 or 2 USB ports for e.g. a printer or NAS.

Do you know of any N routers that are as reliable as that Linksys? After my experience with 2Wire (this is not my first), reliability is my holy Grail.

So you don't think, based on my account, that the DSL line could be the culprit?

I'd also like to find a reliable vendor for a new compatible Atheros card. I'd like to avoid fleabay if possible.

By the way, is swapping the mpcie card an easy operation?
Thanks

[RealBlackStuff]

I keep telling you ASUS for a new router. Check e.g. the Newegg reviews.
Your router is an antique, get rid of it.
Put a WTB in the market forum for that card.
And for replacing the wifi card: RTFM.

[ajkula66]

First of all, who is your service provider and what type of a DSL do you have?

Secondly, you should be able to log into the router and pull the margin readings from there, you can then post them here...

Third, any idea how far the central office is from you?

Fourth, do you have more problems after a rainfall?

What you describe sounds like

A) bad router

B) over-booked DSLAM

C) over-stressed copper pair

Or a combination of any of the above...

Good luck.

[taichi]

First of all, who is your service provider and what type of a DSL do you have?

Secondly, you should be able to log into the router and pull the margin readings from there, you can then post them here...

Third, any idea how far the central office is from you?

Fourth, do you have more problems after a rainfall?

What you describe sounds like

A) bad router

B) over-booked DSLAM

C) over-stressed copper pair

Or a combination of any of the above...

Good luck.

Thanks, George, for your help.

Where can I find the margin readings?

Service provider is ATT. I believe I'm in the middle of the pack as far speed "plan" is concerned.

Interesting you ask about the rain. It's been rainy here in LA recently. Does that impact the DSL line?

[taichi]

I keep telling you ASUS for a new router. Check e.g. the Newegg reviews.
Your router is an antique, get rid of it.
Put a WTB in the market forum for that card.
And for replacing the wifi card: RTFM.

I happened to unintentionally overlook the specific Asus model in the earlier post. As it turns out the Asus you mentioned is pretty reliable, but not as reliable as the Linksys I mentioned, which is unusually rock solid. Read some of the negative reviews on Newegg and Amazon if you want.

No need for saying RTFM.

[ajkula66]

Well, any circuit that runs on copper for "the last mile" is sensitive to moisture in the cable...

If you've been with AT&T long enough you may want to give them a call and ask them to upgrade your router. Some of their competitors do this.

No clue on what your router actually is - a re-branded Zyxel, Westell or something entirely different - so I wouldn't know how to guide you on pulling info out of it. If you log into it, and take a little tour, I'm sure you'll be able to find the info if it's there.

But all in all, a new router would be a good start. If that doesn't fix the problem, we can troubleshoot further.

Just as FYI, my cheapo Westell 7500 router (Verizon DSL) positively hates Intel wireless cards if used in Windows. Has no problem with the same cards in Linux. Go figure.

Good luck.

[taichi]

...

...If you've been with AT&T long enough you may want to give them a call and ask them to upgrade your router. Some of their competitors do this.

...If you log into it, and take a little tour, I'm sure you'll be able to find the info if it's there.

But all in all, a new router would be a good start. If that doesn't fix the problem, we can troubleshoot further.

Just as FYI, my cheapo Westell 7500 router (Verizon DSL) positively hates Intel wireless cards if used in Windows. Has no problem with the same cards in Linux. Go figure.

Good luck.

Really interesting information about the router/intel interaction. Might incline me toward that N Atheros card you mentioned elsewhere, though I'd have my repair tech install it.

I went into the gateway>broadband> and theirs a lot of info there, but the term margin reading doesn't seem to be there. Could it be called something else? Are you looking for throughput, or error readings?

I'm not far from the central office.

Not a single disconnect today on ethernet...much better than wireless has been for the preceding week.

[ajkula66]

Margin and attenuation are two terms to look for.

These are pointing to the quality of the DSL signal itself.

Do you have a "dry loop" or there's a dialtone coming over the circuit as well?

[ajkula66]

From my own router (under System monitoring>Advanced status>Transceiver stats)


Transceiver Information Down Stream Path Up Stream Path
DSL Speed (Kbits/Sec)
Margin (dB)
Line Attenuation (dB)
Transmit Power (dBm)

[taichi]

DSL Connection Details
DSL Line (Wire Pair): Line 1 (inner pair)
Protocol: G.DMT Annex A
Downstream Rate: 3008 kbps
Upstream Rate: 512 kbps
Channel: Interleaved
Current Noise Margin: 14.0 dB (Downstream) 17.0 dB (Upstream)
Current Attenuation: 56.6 dB (Downstream) 31.5 dB (Upstream)
Current Output Power: 18.2 dBm (Downstream) 11.8 dBm (Upstream)
DSLAM Vendor Information: Country: {0x0F} Vendor: {ALCB} Specific: {0x00}
PVC Info: 0/35

Thanks for the additional information, George.

[RealBlackStuff]

If you want some more info on the latest and greatest routers:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-573 ... ag=nl.e404

[taichi]

If you want some more info on the latest and greatest routers:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-573 ... ag=nl.e404

Thanks, RBS. Looks interesting. Checking out the Cisco Linksys E4200 v2.

[RealBlackStuff]

The (older) Cisco E3000 is (this weekend only) on special offer at Newegg for $69.99 with Promo Code EMCJHJD64 and free shipping.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 24388-L03D

Review: http://reviews.cnet.com/routers/cisco-l ... ol;rvwBody

[bill bolton]

The router is a four or five-year-old G 2Wire.

Routers are fairly inexpensive now a days, even the top of the line models.

Rather than try and troubleshoot a router that old, just go a buy a contemporary one!

I have personally used Linksys routers for a long time now, and have found them stable and reliable products.

Cheers,

Bill B.

[ajkula66]

One thing to bear in mind: you need a modem as well as the router...a router itself will not work with your DSL...