Disabling Power Manager in BIOS

[taichi]

Has anyone with a T60P disabled Lenovo Power Manager in BIOS (rather than uninstalling it)?

Given that Windows has is its own Power Management, there is the potential, according to what I've read elsewhere, for the two PMs to conflict with each other.
Despite some additional features with the Lenovo PM, I would rather have Windows PM as default.

Thanks

[loyukfai]

AFAIK, once you booted into Windows, power management is taken over by the OS and whatever is configured in BIOS has little, if at all, influence.

There are "tutorials" out there that says otherwise, but it seems to contradict with my anecdotal experience.

Cheers.

[taichi]

AFAIK, once you booted into Windows, power management is taken over by the OS and whatever is configured in BIOS has little, if at all, influence.

There are "tutorials" out there that says otherwise, but it seems to contradict with my anecdotal experience.

Cheers.

Thanks for your response.

If the OS power management took over, though, that would invalidate the whole notion of Lenovo's Power Management software, wouldn't it? I can uncheck ThinkPad Power Manager in msconfig (and have done), and that eliminates, among other things, the battery meter on the toolbar. So Thinkpad PM is running, despite Windows Power Management. Even after I disabled Thinkpad PM in msconfig, I'm still able to open up Power Management options in Thinkvantage. I

There was an article on Tom's Hardware (from the XP era) that argued for the disabling of Laptop Power Management schemes given that Windows has that function built in, in order to avoid conflicts. I suspect that Lenovo Power Manager may be buggy in certain contexts, and causing conflicts in my system, and would prefer to fully disable it.

I thought of uninstalling it, but have read of some people who couldn't uninstall it without problems. Moreover, in my system there are two installed "programs". Thinkpad PM and Thinkpad PM Driver. In some of the Lenovo documents reference is only made to uninstalling the Thinkpad PM Driver, which I find confusing given the two programs installed.

Xie xie

[loyukfai]

By "OS power management" I was referring to Windows' built-in power management support, and additional Windows drivers and utilities offered by 3rd parties like Lenovo. These additional utilities build on top of Windows' foundation and are not a replacement per se. Sometimes they are just a different front-end to configure the same Windows parameters.

What I meant by "no influence" was that those settings, like HDD spin down, CPU power scheme, are no longer controlled by the settings in the CMOS/BIOS once you booted into a modern OS, be it Windows or Linux. The BIOS still needs to have proper support for ACPI (or APM in older models).

If you don't want to use Power Manager, then don't install (or uninstall) it. Windows' built-in ACPI support is good enough for many, I suppose, but Power Manager offers some more granular controls and a few more functions that you may or may not have a use.

The PM driver is a pre-requisite for Power Manager, but AFAIK it's *not* vice versa.

Ke Qi.

[taichi]

...If you don't want to use Power Manager, then don't install (or uninstall) it. Windows' built-in ACPI support is good enough for many, I suppose, but Power Manager offers some more granular controls and a few more functions that you may or may not have a use.

The PM driver is a pre-requisite for Power Manager, but AFAIK it's *not* vice versa.

Ke Qi.

Gong Xi Fa Cai, by the way!

It already feels like a Dragon year, with all the wild stuff happening in the world.

My concern about Power Manager is that I have a persisting NMI parity error... not caused by ram, or GPU. There is a fellow on this forum, whose company owned scores of T60Ps, all having the same parity error. Ultimately, he traced it to buggy Lenovo Power Manager software. I am running a very old version of Thinkpad Power Manager... version 1.4, whereas the current version is 3.65. When I disabled Thinkpad Power Manager in msconfig, it has drastically reduced the occurrence of this error, so that it virtually does not occur, compared to what I was experiencing, but now occurs quite infrequently. Hence my question. It's possible that even with Power Manager disabled, that some part of the program, or the driver, is still triggering the problem.

Before doing anything, I tend to check forums and found that some people have difficulty uninstalling/installing Power manager. It's because of this, that I have not tried upgrading to the new version.

Xie xie

[dr_st]

Let me just say:

I always run Lenovo Power Manager on all my Thinkpads (got a few of them as you see). I've been running it since old versions (1.4 and earlier too), and nowadays I run various versions on XP and Win7, some old (1.51), some new (3.xx), and haven't seen a single Parity Error on a single machine even once. And I don't recall any other conflicts between that and Windows functions, at least nothing worth remembering.

You may have an elusive hardware problem, or a conflict between the Power Management software and some other driver, or something of the sort.

To answer your question, though - yes, even if you disable/uninstall the Power Manager software, the Power Management Driver stays. I would not advise uninstalling that one, though - it's connected one way or another to almost every power management / hotkey feature in your Thinkpad. Running without it will seriously cripple your experience.

[taichi]

Let me just say:

I always run Lenovo Power Manager on all my Thinkpads (got a few of them as you see). I've been running it since old versions (1.4 and earlier too), and nowadays I run various versions on XP and Win7, some old (1.51), some new (3.xx), and haven't seen a single Parity Error on a single machine even once. And I don't recall any other conflicts between that and Windows functions, at least nothing worth remembering.

You may have an elusive hardware problem, or a conflict between the Power Management software and some other driver, or something of the sort...

The post I refereed to is here:
http://www.thinkpads.com/forum/viewtopi ... 6&start=30

My wireless card is disabled, so I investigated Power Manager. Disabling even the portion that I could of PM has had a dramatic effect on the occurrence of the problem, as I mentioned. There was an immediate decrease in the appearance of the error.

I also think that it may be a conflict between PM and some other driver, and I wanted to establish that by disabling the program. As I said, this has had a major impact, so PM's interaction with something else does seem to be the problem.

Possibly updating to 3.65 (I'm running Vista) might help. I'm just concerned about problematic uninstalls, and installs.

Thanks

[ajkula66]

Personally, I don't believe that Power Manager has anything to do with BSOD. Then again, I don't run Vista. And all of my PM installs could use updates, but I have a tendency of not touching anything that doesn't bother me...

I currently have a slew of T60/p units running XP, W7 and W8DP and have yet to see a BSOD related to parity errors...my guess would be that the problem is somewhere else, and that it's hardware-related...

[taichi]

Personally, I don't believe that Power Manager has anything to do with BSOD. Then again, I don't run Vista. And all of my PM installs could use updates, but I have a tendency of not touching anything that doesn't bother me...

I currently have a slew of T60/p units running XP, W7 and W8DP and have yet to see a BSOD related to parity errors...my guess would be that the problem is somewhere else, and that it's hardware-related...

Well, the post I linked to (at the top of the linked page) recounts the experience of someone whose company had many T60Ps with parity errors, and found them attributable to the wireless card, or Power Manager. I only know that unchecking PM in msconfig made an immediate difference, reducing the occurrence of the error from frequent, to very, very infrequent. I theorized, then, that some part of PM was still operating (the driver), and another poster confirmed this.

When I first bought my T60P from the previous owner there were no Lenovo programs installed...no ThinkVantage or Power Manager. I had no parity errors. Thinking back, it was around the time that I installed all the Lenovo programs that I started to experience the problem.

And yes, Vista is a different kettle of fish.

I am also running a GPU driver that is older than what Lenovo update recommends, and somewhere I read that this error may result from a conflict between PM and the GPU driver.

The GPU itself is robust, having been stress tested for many, many hours without a hiccup. Same for the RAM, and a tech I took the computer to found no hardware problems.

[loyukfai]

I also remember reading some reports about NMI parity errors associated with wireless LAN driver.

Anyway, would you consider making a Restore Point (System Restore), and update all your drivers to the latest and see if it helps...?

You (we) know that one of the strengths of the Windows/PC platform is also its bane (as compared to Mac) - There are so many parts and software out there, and inevitably, some of them will crash into each other. It has already come a long way, but still sometimes it marvels me how all those things can work together......

Or it's the cosmic rays. : )

FWIW, I just replaced my dictionary app. Since the old one, when a certain menu item was clicked, kept crashing Chrome.

Cheers.

P.S. Thanks for the blessing, BTW. And Good Health.

[taichi]

...Anyway, would you consider making a Restore Point (System Restore), and update all your drivers to the latest and see if it helps...?

I was potentially subscribing to the cosmic ray theory as well.

Regarding Power Manager, would you simply run the Lenovo installer rather than uninstalling the old version? I'm assuming that the new software updates the Power Manager driver as well. In add remove, there is both the Power Manager and the Power Manager driver.

Regarding the GPU driver, the Lenovo package is a 90 MB plus Catalyst program. I've always been leery about doing a GPU upgrade, as ATI cards and driver are apparently fickle. In one place I read that I should simply use add remove programs to uninstall the driver, rather than using a more thorough uninstallation using a dedicated uninstaller program such as Revo, which goes deep into the registry. I've also read that some parts of this process should be done in safe mode.

By the way, in add remove programs, I only have ATI Catalyst Install Manager. There is no separate entry either for the driver, or for the Catalyst program. Once again, I'm using Vista 32 Ultimate.

Many thanks
Xie xie

[ajkula66]

taichi wrote:

somewhere I read that this error may result from a conflict between PM and the GPU driver

You might be onto something with this...on most ThinkPads, you need both running properly for the machine to "sleep" as intended to begin with.

Well, the post I linked to (at the top of the linked page) recounts the experience of someone whose company had many T60Ps with parity errors, and found them attributable to the wireless card, or Power Manager.

The only reason I'm not buying this explanation - as palatable as it may be for many users - is that I went through a three-digit number of T60/p machines of all shapes and configurations and have NEVER had this happen. Not in XP, not in W7... the number of units I owned that were running Vista was not worth mentioning whatsoever so I really can't comment on the given OS in regards to what we're discussing here.

When I first bought my T60P from the previous owner there were no Lenovo programs installed...no ThinkVantage or Power Manager. I had no parity errors. Thinking back, it was around the time that I installed all the Lenovo programs that I started to experience the problem.

Was it missing the proper drivers as well?

[taichi]

Well, regarding the poster's experience, that was his experience, just as your experience was yours. A sort of existential standoff. I'm sure that both of your experiences are true.

Some of this oddity might be attributable to Vista.

When I bought my machine it was in great shape...used by an architectural student...with a perfect Boe Hydis UXGA Flexview. Although he promised to retrieve the IBM original software discs from his parent's house in another State...wonder of wonders...he never followed through. So all I had was his Vista 32 Ultimate OEM disc.

I never did an inquiry into what drivers were installed, but I had no problems until I started downloading ThinkVantage, the update installer, PM and other programs.

Curiously, when I ran the Update program, it didn't tell me that my 1.4 Power Manager was out of date and needed updating to 3.65, which is the current version for the T60P. It did tell me to update my ATI Driver, which I have yet to do.

Thanks

[ajkula66]

Completely OT...

Are you sure that your screen is Hydis?

My recollection is that you have 2623-DDU, correct me if I'm wrong.

I've never seen one of those with a Hydis. They were late models and all of them had ID Tech panels..which I prefer.

[taichi]

Completely OT...

Are you sure that your screen is Hydis?

My recollection is that you have 2623-DDU, correct me if I'm wrong.

I've never seen one of those with a Hydis. They were late models and all of them had ID Tech panels..which I prefer.

I ran some sort of diagnostic app when I first got it that said it had a Boe Hydis.

But you are the FlexView man, so I don't discount what you say.

[loyukfai]

IMO it's simpler just to make a Restore Point, or if you feel uncomfortable, image your drive and then do some trial and errors. And if it doesn't work out, then roll back and try again.

FWIW, I have a certain level of confidence in the developers of some of the Lenovo's ThinkPad utilities that I feel comfortable to let System Update (SU) update them automatically, Power Manager is one of them.

I'm not running SU everyday though, so if there's any major problem, it's usually reported here or Lenovo's forums already.

BTW, IIRC, in SU, you can choose to install PM, which mandates the install of the PM driver, or you can choose to install the PM driver only.

The same confidence cannot be spoken for other vendors/models, not even IdeaPads. Heck, I just did a clean install for a friend's IdeaPad and found out somehow, after trying out both the latest driver from AMD and an earlier version from Lenovo, still whenever Adobe Flash was run, the computer slowed down to become unusable (perhaps some other things would cause the freezing as well, but I didn't have time nor urge to check it out... ) I'm restoring the backup, probably going to do some smaller maintenance tasks and call it a day.

Personally I don't like the way these kind of "driver package" which in additional to the base drivers, install a load of... Other utilities. Neither do I prefer to use those factory images, which again, often, include bunches of not-so-wanted software. But well, for the former, we don't have much choice and for the latter, they do serve a purpose - Not everyone likes to install an OS and set it up from scratch. Just like we're not going to build a car or a plane just to drive or fly. I'm getting off-topic......

Cheers.

Edit: There's only AMD/ATI Catalyst Install Manager listed in the Control Panel|Add/Remove Programs. Click Change and then the first option(?), it will go on detecting your hardware and present you a list of drivers and utilities for you to install/uninstall. IIRC, you can choose to install the base driver only (sorry the restore is in process right now, can't check it out...)

[taichi]

IMO it's simpler just to make a Restore Point, or if you feel uncomfortable, image your drive and then do some trial and errors. And if it doesn't work out, then roll back and try again.

FWIW, I have a certain level of confidence in the developers of some of the Lenovo's ThinkPad utilities that I feel comfortable to let System Update (SU) update them automatically, Power Manager is one of them...

...BTW, IIRC, in SU, you can choose to install PM, which mandates the install of the PM driver, or you can choose to install the PM driver only....

Cheers.

Xie xie!

I always wonder about restore points, but I don't have an imaging solution right now, only Norton 360's file backups to CD. I'm interested in something called Clickfree C6, which is a very innovative product. Maybe you could read about it online. I might live with the now infrequent problem until I make the decision to buy it. Like every backup product, the mostly good reviews are punctuated by a few bad ones. How often do restore points fail?

Would you update the whole ancient (1.4) Power Manager or just the driver? If I run System Update will it automatically do the uninstall? I have the same question about the ATI Catalyst package, since that is also indicated as an update on System Update. And would it make sense to install the whole Catalyst package?

I've always wanted to visit Hong Kong, as my Wushu teacher (and his teacher ) hail from there. Besides the food...

Zai jian (or is it Joi gin in HK?)

[loyukfai]

Just a quick note, come back later, still setting up the box...

This is what I used to image the drive and did the restore...

http://www.macrium.com/reflectfree.aspx

Surely there are bunches of other similar paid or free software out there, but this is what I used to create an image of the whole HDD to an external drive (you can also select partitions) before nuking it, and then restore it with the Linux rescue disk. The program allows you to create an optical rescue disc directly, or an ISO file. I chose the latter and then used unetbootin to write the ISO to a USB flash. It also has WinPE-based rescue disc but if the Linux one works, it's simpler and faster to make use......

And I'm giving a fresh install another try, so far so good... Off I go and continue working on it...

Cheers.

[loyukfai]

Took a quick glance a Clickfree C6, looks like a backup software bundled with an external drive selling for an inflated price. Perhaps Windows Vista/7's built-in backup program will do just as well with a generic external drive.

The reason I used Reflect (the free version, BTW) instead of the built-in backup utility was that it can backup the whole disk, including the hidden recovery partitions.

In your case, Vista's built-in backup program maybe adequate... I'm not sure if your Vista edition supports the imaging function. Insofar as I gather, it's only supported on Vista Ultimate/Business/Enterprise (while on 7 it is supported on all editions including Starter).

For Power Manager and the PM driver, they will automatically overwrite the older versions. Besides, you don't really have to use System Update, you can just download them directly from the support site and install them manually, it's up to you.

Regarding the Catalyst package, well... I don't know. If you get it from Lenovo it should be a simple install without much, if any, configurable options. If you get it from AMD then it'd likely offer more configuration options.

Anyway, as long as you've made a good backup, and some time, don't worry about it as you can roll back if it doesn't work out.

Cheers.

P.S. You mean Cantonese vs. Mandarin, right...? If the "g" in "gin" is pronounced as "hard g" (as in game), then yes, it's quite close... : )

[taichi]

Took a quick glance a Clickfree C6, looks like a backup software bundled with an external drive selling for an inflated price. Perhaps Windows Vista/7's built-in backup program will do just as well with a generic external drive.

The reason I used Reflect (the free version, BTW) instead of the built-in backup utility was that it can backup the whole disk, including the hidden recovery partitions.

In your case, Vista's built-in backup program maybe adequate... I'm not sure if your Vista edition supports the imaging function. Insofar as I gather, it's only supported on Vista Ultimate/Business/Enterprise (while on 7 it is supported on all editions including Starter).

For Power Manager and the PM driver, they will automatically overwrite the older versions. Besides, you don't really have to use System Update, you can just download them directly from the support site and install them manually, it's up to you.

Regarding the Catalyst package, well... I don't know. If you get it from Lenovo it should be a simple install without much, if any, configurable options. If you get it from AMD then it'd likely offer more configuration options.

Actually, Clickfree C6 is a bit more interesting than a simple backup/imaging device. First of all it can backup the whole drive as in your example, but the OS and documents are, in a sense, stored separately. As result, you can restore the OS, you can restore the documents only, or you can restore the whole drive. Moreover, it makes incremental backups to the image, with the result that your first backup is time intensive, but the incremental additions to the image are performed periodically after that, much more quickly. So it's really rather unique. Moreover, if I get the 2 TB drive, I can backup several different computers on the same device.

In my case, the previous owner wiped the whole drive, including the backup partition, so that's gone. Not the way I would've done it, but I got a great machine in great shape. And what he gave me was an OEM version of Vista 32 Ultimate. Out of curiosity, if you are running Windows 7 on a T60P, how did you get the audio working, as that apparently is one of the problems encountered running that OS on this machine?

By the way, apparently I do not have version 1.4 in Power Manager, but rather version 3.12.

In case of the Power Manager upgrade, I understand that it does an overwrite. Is that also true of the Catalyst Program, or do I need to manually uninstall through Catalyst Install manager, before running the new installation package. Apparently the Catalyst Program allows overclocking and other tweaks.

I knew the difference between the Mandarin and Cantonese versions of thank you, but I didn't know which version you preferred. My teacher only spoke Cantonese.

Many, many thanks for your thoughtful responses.

[loyukfai]

Haha! It doesn't matter, I wish I could speak better Mandarin though.

You're welcome.

In general, the Catalyst driver also overwrites, except that it didn't allow me to install an older version when it detected a newer version was already there.

My box is a X61T, I was just chiming in since the topic wasn't really model specific.

The built-in backup program can also do image and file-based backup at the same time, but no incremental/differential backup, IIRC. Anyway, the solution you mentioned just doesn't occur to me something very special, I can name a few backup programs that does the same thing out of my head (signs that I spent too much time on PC...) But different situations command different solutions, and if it works on multiple PC, then it could be cheaper then buying a license for each...... Anyway it's a topic that deserves its own thread so if you like, we may talk about it somewhere else.

Cheers.

[ajkula66]

I just finished installing W7 Professional on a 2623-DDU pretty much like OP's...

W7 installs the generic video driver. When I installed the Vista driver, I was asked whether I wanted a "Custom" installation, to which I clicked "yes". On the next screen, there are four options that one could choose whether to install or not, one of them being the actual driver, and one the CCC (Catalyst Control Center). I went with the whole meal and am pretty pleased so far.

As always, YMMV...will post the version of PM that I ended up installing in a bit.

[taichi]

...In general, the Catalyst driver also overwrites, except that it didn't allow me to install an older version when it detected a newer version was already there...

...My box is a X61T, I was just chiming in since the topic wasn't really model specific. ...

...But different situations command different solutions, and if it works on multiple PC, then it could be cheaper then buying a license for each...... Anyway it's a topic that deserves its own thread so if you like, we may talk about it somewhere else.

Cheers.

So, I could just run the Catalyst Installer, sit back, and avoid the anxiety of driver removal? If the only penalty is not being able to overwrite with an older driver, couldn't you just completely uninstall Catalyst, and then reinstall your older driver?

There are some people who warn that if you don't completely uninstall the old driver (as in an overwrite) that fragments remain which can trigger conflicts. I just don't know.

With regard to your next point (owning the X61T) your advice has been invaluable. As an ancient saying goes. "Right man wrong method is better than wrong man right method."

One of the things I like about Clickfree is the option of backing up several pcs, all on one large drive, with the option of incremental imaging. I just hope the thing works.

As far as taking the conversation elsewhere, let's meet over some virtual gai chow fun and discuss it.

But I think your useful advice has general utility across the Thinkpad divide. It's not just T60P specific.

[loyukfai]

Then uninstall first before installing the new software. Frankly speaking, I think you're overthinking about this... : )

Cheers.

P.S. What do you mean by "virtual gai chow fun"...?

[taichi]

Then uninstall first before installing the new software. Frankly speaking, I think you're overthinking about this... : )

Cheers.

P.S. What do you mean by "virtual gai chow fun"...?

Well, without a complete backup solution (my old cloning setup won't work on the T60P) I am careful, particularly when I've read about potential difficulties with ATI upgrades. The Power Manager upgrade concerns me less...and I'll probably do an overwrite.

Virtual gai chow fun? Well, you're in Hong Kong with great dim sum, and terrific noodle dishes. Dry style chicken chow fun is a favorite of mine. So I thought we could have a virtual (imaginary) lunch together on the internet, or you could go have some chow fun, and I'll do that here in Los Angeles in commemoration of Thinkpads and great food.

[loyukfai]

Umm... I can understand if the machine is your workhorse and you want to avoid downtime as much as possible... At the same time, what's stopping you from downloading an imaging program, make a backup to an external drive, and test restoring the backup (or at least, make sure the rescue disc works), and go ahead...?

Anyway, it's up to you. : )

Cheers.

P.S. You meant this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rice_noodle_roll)...? Yeah it's delicious... I prefer the wet and beef version though...

[taichi]

Umm... I can understand if the machine is your workhorse and you want to avoid downtime as much as possible... At the same time, what's stopping you from downloading an imaging program, make a backup to an external drive, and test restoring the backup (or at least, make sure the rescue disc works), and go ahead...?

Anyway, it's up to you. : )

Cheers.

P.S. You meant this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rice_noodle_roll)...? Yeah it's delicious... I prefer the wet and beef version though...

Ah! There's the rub. I have only one backup drive, which I foolishly forgot to partition, so it's dedicated to one Mac.
So...that's why I'm pondering the Clickfree.

I used to prefer the beef, with scallions and bean sprouts, but switched to chicken.

How about shredded chicken? Or Shanghai Smoked Tea Duck?

[loyukfai]

The drive was format with HFS and not usable under Windows at all...?

I see on Newegg that the 1TB C6 is selling for more or less the same as a bare 3.5" 1TB. Good price, so it seems, regardless with the software or not.

Cheers.

P.S. Shredded chicken and smoked tea duck...?

[taichi]

The drive was format with HFS and not usable under Windows at all...?

I see on Newegg that the 1TB C6 is selling for more or less the same as a bare 3.5" 1TB. Good price, so it seems, regardless with the software or not.

Cheers.

P.S. Shredded chicken and smoked tea duck...?

You can get the 2 TB C6 for around $160... so with all of the features, it's not a bad deal.

Regarding my other drive... a 1 TB Verbatim... it's really that I was so determined to back up my old Mac that I neglected to partition the drive, which I believe makes it unusable as a backup for another computer. Perhaps I am wrong, but I don't want to overwrite the files on there.

Shredded chicken is a great Cantonese dish, served on crispy noodles with tiny slices of preserved, sweet melon. And smoked tea duck, which is smoked in tea and camphor wood, is a well-known Shanghai dish, as good as Peking Duck... just different. Best with plum sauce.

Chinese and Indian food are my favorite cuisines.