Thinkpads Forum

I have a T60 that has been an excellent laptop. I like the keyboard, 14" screen, everything about it except the weight. I also have an Ideapad U110, which is great for hauling around, but the keyboard is not as good as the T60, and the screen is too small for "normal working". I have Windows XP on both, which is fine.

My wife wants a laptop with a multidrive, so the T60 is fine with her. But I'd like something lighter and thinner, but I don't want to sacrifice keyboard quality, or screen quality (T60 is 1440 x 1050), or screen size much. I never use the DVD drive, so should I be looking at an X series Thinkpad? If so, what is a good model to look at? Used is OK and Windows XP is OK. I don't do gaming. Mostly used for email with Outlook, Excel, and internet surfing with Firefox.

Thank you

Ray
Sequim, WA

I suggest you start by looking at the T400s, T410s and T420s models. They have 14" widescreen high resolution (WXGA+ or HD+) LCDs plus they weight just under 4 lbs. with a six cell battery and internal optical drive. They are also thin, about 1 inch thick.

Their combination of power, features, slender packaging and light weight are tough to beat.

I would be looking into an X series notebook like you said.

An X61/X200 series would be a good fit. The X60 or X61 would be on par with what you have now as far as general performance. SATA drives, Core Duo, and a near full size keyboard. The display will be 12" at 1024 x 768 though, hopefully that is OK.

Another option would be an X200 series (X201/X220) depending on how much you want to spend.

They have a wider footprint so the keyboard is closer to full size. 1280x800 is the standard screensize, but I think the X200s in certain flavors had a 1440x900 display, which is fairly close to your current T60.

The X200 series have fairly powerful processors, Core 2 Duo or better. In some cases though, a Celeron was available.

Hopefully there is some info there that proves useful to you

Regards,
-Brian

If you want to stick with Thinkpads, look into the T410s and T420s like underclocker suggested. But IMO, by far the best laptops for you would be the Panasonic Toughbook CF-Y5 and CF-Y7. I have the Y5 and would not give it up for any Thinkpad. 14.1" 1400x1050, internal optical drive, good battery duration, and only 3.52 lbs!

underclocker wrote:I suggest you start by looking at the T400s, T410s and T420s models. They have 14" widescreen high resolution (WXGA+ or HD+) LCDs plus they weight just under 4 lbs. with a six cell battery and internal optical drive. They are also thin, about 1 inch thick.

Their combination of power, features, slender packaging and light weight are tough to beat.

Ed, I see you are still active on the TP forum - I've been away for awhile and not keeping up with the latest changes. I bought a T40 from you a few years ago and I was very happy with it until I found the T60 and gave the T40 to my sister-in-law. Now that I'm interested in something newer, I'm bewildered by all of the choices.

I will look into the T4xx series as you suggest, but I mentioned the X series only because I never use the drive and thought I'm just carrying around extra weight and thickness. Although I like my T60, I don't want the physical size any bigger (especially longer) because it wouldn't fit into my carry-on. So that's why bigger than 14" won't work. But I wouldn't mind even higher resolution than my current 1440 x 1050 (I'm not sure what WXGA or HD+ is).

But thank you, and if you know of any deals on a T4xx that would fit my needs, I'm always interested.

Thank you again.

Ray

Brian10161 wrote:I would be looking into an X series notebook like you said.

An X61/X200 series would be a good fit. The X60 or X61 would be on par with what you have now as far as general performance. SATA drives, Core Duo, and a near full size keyboard. The display will be 12" at 1024 x 768 though, hopefully that is OK.

Another option would be an X200 series (X201/X220) depending on how much you want to spend.

They have a wider footprint so the keyboard is closer to full size. 1280x800 is the standard screensize, but I think the X200s in certain flavors had a 1440x900 display, which is fairly close to your current T60.

The X200 series have fairly powerful processors, Core 2 Duo or better. In some cases though, a Celeron was available.

Hopefully there is some info there that proves useful to you

Regards,
-Brian

Thank you Brian, for the response. I'm a little concerned about the 12" display, especially if it is only 1024 x 768. My eyes are what they used to be, and if anything, I'd like something better than my 14" 1440 x 1050 display on my T60. Right now my wife and I "fight" over the T60, since the display is superior to our little Ideapad U110 (as well as the keyboard). She likes the Thinkpad Trackpoint and I use a little BT500 Bluetooth mouse.

I don't mind spending more to get something smaller and more powerful, so maybe the X2xx's are something I should look at. I don't want the physical size of the laptop to be any longer than my T60 or it won't fit in my carryon.

I was looking at the new X130e, but its screen is too small, and the X220 is pretty "iffy" for screen size. The X1 seems about right, but it is pretty pricey and perhaps more than I need. I'm still old fashioned with Windows XP on my two laptops and our three desktops at home and haven't gone to Windows 7 yet - not sure if I should take the plunge or not.

Again, thank you for the advice and I'll look at your suggestions.

Ray Kawal
Sequim, WA

pianowizard wrote:If you want to stick with Thinkpads, look into the T410s and T420s like underclocker suggested. But IMO, by far the best laptops for you would be the Panasonic Toughbook CF-Y5 and CF-Y7. I have the Y5 and would not give it up for any Thinkpad. 14.1" 1400x1050, internal optical drive, good battery duration, and only 3.52 lbs!

Thank you for the suggestion. I have a lot of Panasonic stuff and I'm happy with all of it. I will look at the Toughbooks. I've just been a Thinkpad user for so long, it's hard to break loose.

Ray

kawal wrote:Thank you Brian, for the response. I'm a little concerned about the 12" display, especially if it is only 1024 x 768. My eyes are what they used to be, and if anything, I'd like something better than my 14" 1440 x 1050 display on my T60. Right now my wife and I "fight" over the T60, since the display is superior to our little Ideapad U110 (as well as the keyboard). She likes the Thinkpad Trackpoint and I use a little BT500 Bluetooth mouse.

I don't mind spending more to get something smaller and more powerful, so maybe the X2xx's are something I should look at. I don't want the physical size of the laptop to be any longer than my T60 or it won't fit in my carryon.

I was looking at the new X130e, but its screen is too small, and the X220 is pretty "iffy" for screen size. The X1 seems about right, but it is pretty pricey and perhaps more than I need. I'm still old fashioned with Windows XP on my two laptops and our three desktops at home and haven't gone to Windows 7 yet - not sure if I should take the plunge or not.

Again, thank you for the advice and I'll look at your suggestions.

Ray Kawal
Sequim, WA

Hi Ray

The 12" display is a little small for most uses, part of the reason I upgraded to a T series. I have a T410 with the 1440x900 display and it's a great screen. The computer isn't as heavy as my T60 15" was which is nice, sits on my lap a lot easier.

The T400s is a nice little notebook. It's very light and has a powerful processor in it. The only point I have to raise about the T400s/T410s and (possibly, I'm not sure) T420s is that they use a 1.8" MSATA drive which is kind of hard to find.

My T400s had a 128gb ssd in it and it's plenty fast for me, but the MSATA hard drives are super slow, just keep that in mind.

Also, another X series to check out would be the X300 and X301. They are a 13" X series notebook, they do have an internal optical drive, but they are fairly small notebooks. I think these use 1.8" drives as well, so if you can, opt for an SSD.

Ray, I do remember and I'm glad that T40 has lasted and served your family well.

I didn't/don't recommend any of the X-series machines due to their lack of resolution (all very close to XGA, except for the odd X200s, which would be a good choice if you can handle a high-res, small LCD, but might be hard to find). Even the X1, with a 13.3" LCD has only the HD resolution, which is 1366 x 768 (close to XGA or 1024 x 768).

The other reason I recommend the full featured T4x0s models, is that at 4 lbs., they are 1/2 lb. or so heavier and no thicker than the X2xx series machines. Their screen resolutions are either 1440 x 900 (WXGA+) or 1600 x 900 (HD+), and as it is, you're loosing considerable screen height going from a 14" 4:3 to a 14" widescreen.

I suppose another good option might be the X301 w/13.3" WXGA+, but it's still close to 3.5 lbs. w/a six cell battery.

If I could only have one ThinkPad and didn't have a desktop, I'd take a T4x0s. For sure (& w/an SSD). The only downside to the T4x0s line is that they are very thin, so they are not quite as rugged as the thicker T-series models, for instance.

Furthermore, since the T410s has the newer Core (vs. Core 2 Duo) processors, I'd see if that model was within budget first.

Resolutions

XGA 1024 x 768
SXGA+ 1400 x 1050
UXGA 1600 x 1200

WXGA 1280 x 768 & 1280 x 800
WXGA+ 1440 x 900
WSXGA+ 1680 x 1050
WUXGA 1920 x 1200

HD 1366 x 768
HD+ 1600 x 900
FHD 1920 x 1080

kawal wrote:I will look at the Toughbooks. I've just been a Thinkpad user for so long, it's hard to break loose.

It's not that hard. Between 2002 and 2010, I used Thinkpads almost exclusively and owned 45 of them. In 2010, I "discovered" other brands and haven't gone back since. Thinkpads are good for people who want the best laptop keyboards and the trackpoint. If weight and screen resolution are more important (which seems to be the case for you), Panasonic and Sony are hard to beat. That said, most Panasonic Toughbooks including the Y5 and Y7 are pretty thick, because the thickness enhances their toughness.

Brian10161 wrote:Also, another X series to check out would be the X300 and X301. They are a 13" X series notebook, they do have an internal optical drive, but they are fairly small notebooks. I think these use 1.8" drives as well, so if you can, opt for an SSD.

Oh yes, how could I forget these. Besides the X4*0s, you should look into the X30* as well. A few of the X300/301's were sold without the optical drive, and these units weighed just under 3 lbs if I remember correctly. However, going from 1400x1050 to 1440x900 is quite a downgrade.

Should I be considering a Lenovo Ideapad? Do the keyboards and displays rival the Thinkpads yet?

Ray

Brian10161 wrote:Also, another X series to check out would be the X300 and X301. They are a 13" X series notebook, they do have an internal optical drive, but they are fairly small notebooks. I think these use 1.8" drives as well, so if you can, opt for an SSD.

Oh yes, how could I forget these. Besides the X4*0s, you should look into the X30* as well. A few of the X300/301's were sold without the optical drive, and these units weighed just under 3 lbs if I remember correctly. However, going from 1400x1050 to 1440x900 is quite a downgrade.

Thank you again for the reply.

Your last sentence is a bit confusing, "going from 1400x1050 to 1440x900 is quite a downgrade". The specs alone wouldn't seem that significant, but I know specs alone don't always tell the whole story. Am I missing something here?

Ray

You'd be losing more than 10% of screen height, while viewing e.g. a spreadsheet, that's a huge loss!
That's why so many people dislike widescreen.

The real issue with X301 vs. T400s, is that the X301's are nearly twice as expensive on the used market. (Plus, T400s performance is better.)

For the same money as a used X301, I would definitely opt for a used T410s, which would have the newer generation Core processor.

IMHO, the T410s is a better value (vs. the X301) at today's used ThinkPad price levels.

For example, I don't think you can beat this, just listed (won't last long), excellent condition, eBay T410s w/4GB RAM 80GB SSD & webcam for $599 delivered --> http://www.ebay.com/itm/220949658963

Agree with underclocker, the T4x0s would be a better notebook in terms of cost and performance. The T4x0s series are extremely light. I currently have a T400s, and it's a great little notebook. Nice and light, but with the benefit of a full keyboard and full size display. They are pretty rugged given their size.

The only reason I pointed out the X300/X301 was just to show that there are a few different models and in the off chance it might be of interest.

I'd love to own one, but don't see myself with one due to cost. For the price, I'm going to have both a T410 and an X200s, best of both worlds for me

I have seen the Ideapad notebooks in store, and while they are nice notebooks, I just don't like the glossy screen. Had a glossy display before, never will go back. The Thinkpad Edge machines are pretty nice, but I'm not a fan of the chiclet keyboards.

There's a ton of options out there, I'm sure you'll find something with the help of everyone here. You won't find the perfect notebook, but hopefully can find the best fit

I'm digesting all of your kinds comments and suggestions - thank you.

It appears that even the T4x0s suffer from the new widescreen option only - 1400x900. I like my taller display on the T60 - I wonder why the widescreen is popular? For gaming or movies?

When I looked at the specs for the T4x0s, it appears they are 13.5" wide, which is an 1 1/2" wider than my T60. And they appear to weigh about 4 lbs. +. While I'd like to see one in person, I'm leaning toward an X301 because of its width and 3 lb. weight. Is the keyboard and screen (quality) as good as the T4x0s?

At this point I can live with Windows XP as well, since all of my other computers still run it.

I would appreciate your comments, as usual.

I found this X301 on ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lenovo-ThinkPad ... 43ad18fb8f

Is this one lacking something essential? I see no SSD, which I'm not that familiar with.

Thanks again,

Ray

X60 Tablets and X61 Tablets are available with SXGA+ IPS panel, which is by far nicer than 14.1" TN panel T60 uses. Lighter as well.

Raceboy wrote:X60 Tablets and X61 Tablets are available with SXGA+ IPS panel, which is by far nicer than 14.1" TN panel T60 uses. Lighter as well.

Wow, something new I'd better check out!

My T60 display is 1400x1050. I'm not familiar with "IPS" and "TN". Can you explain? Both are 1400x1050, so they are not widescreen?

Also, you mention "Tablets". Obviously, I'm not up with the latest technology anymore. This isn't a traditional laptop with a fold up screen like the T60? I currently have a Motorola Xoom Android tablet, but I'm assuming the X6x is different?

Thanks,

Ray

Yes, it's non-widescreen and it works both as regular laptop having full size keyboard and all but you can also turn the screen and use pen (or finger on Multitouch systems).

http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:X60_Tablet

Raceboy wrote:Yes, it's non-widescreen and it works both as regular laptop having full size keyboard and all but you can also turn the screen and use pen (or finger on Multitouch systems).

http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:X60_Tablet

That looks interesting. Only a 12" screen - a little smaller than ideal. Is the tablet feature useful? I'm not sure I would need that.

I might look into the regular X60s too.

Thanks again,

Ray

One thing I really want to mention (because it was enough to bother me) is with the X60(s) models the WiFi card under the palmrest gets warm. You can change it with a cooler running card, but requires a BIOS change I believe.

Other than that, the X60/X61 series are excellent little computers. The LCD on mine was getting old so I changed it out with a new one and it's excellent. I recently sold it to a family member and they love it too

Brian10161 wrote:One thing I really want to mention (because it was enough to bother me) is with the X60(s) models the WiFi card under the palmrest gets warm. You can change it with a cooler running card, but requires a BIOS change I believe.

Other than that, the X60/X61 series are excellent little computers. The LCD on mine was getting old so I changed it out with a new one and it's excellent. I recently sold it to a family member and they love it too

Actually I use a x60s daily as my travel laptop and yes, the palmrest does get a little warm on the right of the mouse clickers but not overly hot. The palmrest from the x61 will fit the x60 and has a small vent on the right side where the infrared window was and according to some users here on the Forum, tends to cool things up a bit..

Ron

dorronto wrote:Actually I use a x60s daily as my travel laptop and yes, the palmrest does get a little warm on the right of the mouse clickers but not overly hot. The palmrest from the x61 will fit the x60 and has a small vent on the right side where the infrared window was and according to some users here on the Forum, tends to cool things up a bit..

Ron

Yeah actually I did do that, I rebuilt the entire computer with a new X61s chassis. The palmrest still got quite hot, I think it was mainly just a problematic WiFi adapter. I was considering changing the adapter but never got around to it. When I enabled the power management settings in the device hardware page, it really helped, but it still got warm.

Regardless, still a nice little notebook

Folks, please DO read other posts on the forum.
There have been many posts about warm/hot palmrests in X6x models, and how to solve that.
Stop boring us with the same old questions, just because you are too lazy to read up on it...

kawal wrote: I would appreciate your comments, as usual.

I found this X301 on ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lenovo-ThinkPad ... 43ad18fb8f

Is this one lacking something essential? I see no SSD, which I'm not that familiar with.

Thanks again,

Ray

Well, that X301 is a widescreen unit as well, and for that amount of money you can do a *lot* better, widescreen or not.

A good non-tablet X61/s will cost you $300 or less. If you are comfortable with T60's 3GB RAM limit, a X60/s non-tablet will be under $200.

A higher-resolution (SXGA+) X60 tablet will run you $250, in very good to excellent shape. Similar X61 tablet will be over $400.

As you can see, a lot of non-widescreen ThinkPads are still available...

And if you can swallow going widescreen, a T400 can be had for $300 nowadays, and they are very decent machines...

My $0.02 only...

RealBlackStuff wrote:Folks, please DO read other posts on the forum.
There have been many posts about warm/hot palmrests in X6x models, and how to solve that.
Stop boring us with the same old questions, just because you are too lazy to read up on it...

Brian10161 wrote:One thing I really want to mention (because it was enough to bother me) is with the X60(s) models the WiFi card under the palmrest gets warm. You can change it with a cooler running card, but requires a BIOS change I believe.

All I was doing was advising about a possible issue. One thing to consider about a certain model notebook.

kawal wrote:[That looks interesting. Only a 12" screen - a little smaller than ideal. Is the tablet feature useful? I'm not sure I would need that.

I might look into the regular X60s too.

Thanks again,

Ray

Only Tablets have IPS screens and I personally would never go back to regular TN screen that is far from good on X series.
Tablet features useful? I'm not sure but I do love the convertible screen for watching movies and taking notes when on some event.

One of the best combos (weight/screen) would be X6 which is retrofitted with IPS panel. It has been done and putting in a XGA IPS is not too hard but SXGA+ requires modified BIOS.

I've really appreciated all of the help you forum members have offered! I think that from everything I've read and investigated so far, my best bet will be to find an X61 Tablet with the SXGA+ screeen. This will be a reasonable sized display but have the smaller chassis and weight I'm looking for. Plus the price sounds pretty enticing. I can even load Windows XP on it.

One question though, do I have to have a special version of Windows XP for the tablet? Or only if I use the tablet features?

I'll start looking on ebay unless anyone knows of a good one for sale by a forum member. I'd like Bluetooth on it.

Thanks again,

Ray

Contact Forum member ajkula66, he has those X61t/SXGA+ for sale quite regularly.
Jump on this one if for some reason the sale falls through: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=102164
I have seen that machine personally, it looks like it came out of the showroom yesterday!

If the T4x0s is too big and the X301 is too slow, another non-ThinkPad option (runs Win 7, too);

MacBook Air 13

13.3" 16:10 ratio WXGA+ 1440 by 900 (native resolution) LCD
Height: 0.11-0.68 inch
Width: 12.8 inches
Depth: 8.94 inches
Weight: 2.96 pounds