Thinkpads Forum

Hello all, I'm new to these forums and looking for a little discussion/help.

I recently purchased a T60 T7200 off of ebay for the insanely low price of $135. The T60 was purchased with the standard hardware given at distribution.

I should say, that I am in love with this models external feel and appearance, and will be putting 32 bit Ubuntu on this machine.

My questions are as follows;

I really want to beef this laptop up. New motherboard, graphics card, processor.

1. What are my limitations?
2. What issues can you see arising from a bare-bone structural perspective?
3. What potential specifications do you think I could reasonably achieve, without it just being overwhelmingly more logical to go out and buy a newer Thinkpad.

I have other cpu's in the house, this is totally a project for myself.

Thanks for your time and considerations,

Beastcloud

It's pointless trying to upgrade a machine if you are going to run Ubuntu on it.
Max. CPU is T7600.
Max. RAM is 2x2GB, of which 3GB usable.
Graphics, either:
- integrated Intel, using up to 128MB shared RAM,
- ATI X1300, 64MB dedicated graphics RAM
- ATI X1400, 128MB dedicated graphics RAM
- ATI FireGL V5200/V5250, 256MB dedicated graphics RAM
The above run temperatures from Intel=cool to FireGL=hot.
If yours is a 15" 4:3 machine, you could also put in the motherboard of a 14.1" 4:3 T61, and add up to 8GB RAM and run it at SATA II speed with a special BIOS.
Use only T61 mobo with Intel graphics, NOT the nVidia graphics.
Read up on this on the forum, and please do NOT start yet another discussion about this boring subject!

RealBlackStuff wrote:It's pointless trying to upgrade a machine if you are going to run Ubuntu on it.

Dear Resident Forum Grump,

Thanks, sorry about the post if it's a common one. I should have looked first, was initially really excited about this forum so I posted away.

Regarding upgrading being pointless if running Ubuntu...can you explain why? Again this is a project and I'm not well versed in Linux OS, CPU incompatibilities.

you know, beastie, i TOO love the T60 series..
i feel its a lot of thinkpad for little $$..

for me, i just mostly poke along with maybe an upgraded wifi card and cpu..
i upgraded my T60p UXGA to a core 2 duo and it just hums along running cooler than with the original cpu..

its been running vista for about 3+ years and it is pretty stable..
i'm not sure, without powering it up and looking, whether it is 32bit or 64bit but its probably 32bit..

if you're interested, i'll look next time it comes out of hibernate and does its job..

Look at the Ubuntu requirements: https://help.ubuntu.com/11.04/installat ... reqts.html
and then look at what you have already in your machine.
If you are one of those people who always need the newest, latest, greatest, bestest and mostest, well, say goodbye/badbuy to the contents of your wallet.
The floor is all yours.

BillMorrow wrote:you know, beastie, i TOO love the T60 series..
i feel its a lot of thinkpad for little $$..

for me, i just mostly poke along with maybe an upgraded wifi card and cpu..
i upgraded my T60p UXGA to a core 2 duo and it just hums along running cooler than with the original cpu..

Yea, I was thinking along the lines of upgraded wifi card for sure and cpu. I'm jealous of your T60p, I should have held out for one of those. I'd be curious if it is 64-bit or 32, if you ever get around to it, let me know.

RealBlackStuff wrote:Ubuntu requirements: https://help.ubuntu.com/11.04/installat ... reqts.html

If you are one of those people who always need the newest, latest, greatest, bestest and mostest, well, say goodbye/badbuy to the contents of your wallet.
The floor is all yours.

I'm more for things that WORK WELL, over the glossy-shiny-greatest-bestest.

From what I'm reading my Tandy 1000 could run Ubuntu. Good to know. Thanks for link.

Personally, I would avoid Ubuntu on the T60p. Over the last 4 years I have given Ubuntu & Linux Mint multiple chances. Every time the driver support is frustratingly lacking. They don't play nicely with the volume control buttons since they are operated through the BIOS, and the video drivers suck badly since they are way too old to be supported by anything other than the generic XGL drivers.

I have more or less maxed mine out (T7600 CPU, 4GB RAM, Intel 5300BGN WiFi, 750GB WD Scorpio Black HDD) and it runs pretty darn well for a laptop of its age. It runs Win7 Ultimate great, and I have yet to encounter a situation where I can't get good proprietary drivers for anything. Also, for some reason, every Linux distro I have run has had TERRIBLE HDD data throughput rates on this machine. Maybe it doesn't play nice with the storage controller or something, I don't know.

With respect to your questions:
1) Everything, more or less. It is an outdated platform by most current laptop standards.

2) The magnesium frame has a tendency to break on he left side, just above/behind the VGA connector. This causes the screen hinge to feel loose, and it will eventually lead to both hinges breaking loose & the screen falling off / ripping the ribbon cable. New frames can be found for a decent price on eBay. The cooling system can be somewhat inadequate too...I clean the dust out of the heat sink annually, and I reinstalled it with some thermal gap pads between the GPU portion of the heat sink & the spring plate. I also put some Shin Etsu G751 thermal grease in there to help improve conductivity.

3)The T7600 & 4GB of RAM (3GB usable due to platform limitations) are about the best you can do. There is a BIOS hack on here that allows you to stuff in any wifi card that you want, which is nice. You may need to purchase a 3rd antenna (forget the FRU number) for 3x3 adapters if the laptopt doesn't already have it.

I love the T60p 4:3 IPS display and I have yet to encounter a new laptop with a screen that can hold a candle to it. That is a HUGE thing for me. I have had a T61p and (currently) a maxed-out W520 at work, and while they are faster, the screens are just pitiful in comparison. The only new Thinkpad to capture my interest is the T420s with its IPS screen...but with a resolution of 1366x768...no thanks...are they kidding? Since my T60p

Just my $.02.

bmwman91 wrote:
Just my $.02.

BMWman,

thanks for all the feedback, I'm gonna give this Ubuntu or Linux Mint a go and see what problems arise. The controller issue is something I'm familiar with...we'll see how it goes.

as for the frame, still pretty fit at this point although picking up a spare side wouldnt be a bad idea for the future. I think i'll secure a SSD before anything else as that seems to be most peoples advice rather than go straight to CPU upgrade.

Thanks again.

The biggest problem you'll have with pretty much any *nix distro will be related to ATi graphics card if your T60 has it.

The drivers suck, plain and simple.

On the other hand, if your T60 has Intel integrated graphics you're golden.

If you need to run *serious* graphic applications on an ATi-based T60/p, you'll have to stay within the Windows realm.

Ah, the T60 series. Love 'em, love 'em. The pinnacle of Thinkpad design, IMO. Still have two specimens myself.

First and foremost, Beastcloud, it would really help to know the exact specifications of your T60 to have any point to upgrade discussions.

Personally, I don't think upgrading a T60 with a T7200 makes much sense. Or more specifically, upgrading peripherals (Hard drive to SSD, Wifi to better Wifi) makes a lot of sense depending on context, but as far as CPU goes - a T7400/T7600 will not offer a large enough improvement over T7200 to justify the cost, and T7200 already is 64bit if for some particular reason one needs that feature.

Upgrading the motherboard is essentially building a new machine from scratch. The part itself is expensive (though you can probably get part of the $$$ back by eventually selling the current board), the labor is non-trivial, and the benefits are moot. Unless from some reason you got one with Intel GPU and absolutely must have ATI (or vice-versa, for that matter), I wouldn't even consider it. And even then, it's probably better to buy a machine already with what you need, and sell the existing one (possibly after some part transfer).

Performance-wise, the ATI GPUs in the T60 series are so weak compared to today, that it's hard to come up with use cases where their extra "oomph" compared to the Intel GPU will benefit you. The only thing I can think of is a particular generation of 3D games which are now several years old; these can still run somewhat OK on the ATI GPUs, but not on the GMA950.

I would also consider upgrading the LCD, if it's a 14" XGA (to 14" SXGA+) or a 15" XGA (to 15" SXGA+ or UXGA). The 15" SXGA+/UXGA are particularly nice because they are IPS screens.

Finally, I've got a question for bmwman91:

The magnesium frame has a tendency to break on he left side, just above/behind the VGA connector. This causes the screen hinge to feel loose, and it will eventually lead to both hinges breaking loose & the screen falling off / ripping the ribbon cable.

This actually happened to you or someone you know? Not talking about the frame breaking, I know it happens all the time; talking about the aftermath (both hinges breaking).

I have heard so many reports of broken motherboard frames (briefly owned one such unit myself), but have yet to hear complaints about broken hinges because of that.

In any case, I was also under the impression that the later Core 2 Duo T60 use a slightly improved frame design, which reduces the chances of breakage. This may explain why my Core Duo T60 had a broken frame, but the two Core 2 Duo units are whole so far (*knocks on wood*).

@ajkula66

Graphics: ATI Radeon x1300 512mb (is this the standard card you warned about? Upgrade options?)



@Dr_ST,

Specs:
Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU
T7200 @ 2.00GHz(is this the best I can do?)
2.00GHz, 2.00GB of Ram(will be 3 or 4 still up for debate)

OS:
Using XP Prof Service Pack 2(Upgrading to 7 or comparable OS)

HD:
Western Digital Scorpio Blue WD800BEVS 80GB 5400 RPM 8MB Cache 2.5" SATA 1.5Gb/s Internal Notebook Hard Drive -Bare Drive(thinking of purchasing a SSD, any recommendations?)

Wireless card:
Intel(R) Pro/Wireless 3945ABG Network Connection(I heard this is one of the best things to upgrade initially?)

ATI Radeon X1300 512mb(upgrade here?)

Thanks Dr_St.

See my first post!
Your ATI Radeon X1300 only has 64MB videoRAM.
The others are mentioned there as well.
Don't know where you get 512MB RAM from.
These GPUs are not upgradable with more RAM.

Windows "sees" X1300 as 512MB, since the GPU "borrows" from the "main" RAM. It is, indeed, a 64MB of physical VRAM and the weakest discrete card that was offered on T60/p generation. For general use, in Windows environment, it is perfectly sufficient though.

I see no point in upgrading the CPU. T7200 is as good as it gets in many respects. I doubt that you'll feel the difference anywhere apart from your wallet if you were to drop in a T7600.

Honestly, the wireless card and SSD (presuming you want to run W7) should be your first course of action.

If you want to stay with XP, just get a newer/faster conventional hard drive.

RealBlackStuff wrote:See my first post!
Your ATI Radeon X1300 only has 64MB videoRAM.
The others are mentioned there as well.
Don't know where you get 512MB RAM from.
These GPUs are not upgradable with more RAM.

thanks, right 64MB dedicated.

ajkula66 wrote: Honestly, the wireless card and SSD (presuming you want to run W7) should be your first course of action.

If you want to stay with XP, just get a newer/faster conventional hard drive.

yea a SSD looks like my first step about to purchase one on Newegg right now.

thanks a bunch

Took my R60 for a test spin with Ubuntu 10.04 sometime last month. I ran it using a LiveUSB I had created a couple of months ago. My R60 has ATI X1300 discrete graphics. It seemed to run fine. Not sure what type of intense applications you intend to run with Ubuntu. Perhaps you might want to enlighten us.

I can tell you that I could output to my family's 1080p monitor with the dock and DVI cable. I'm currently waiting for 12.04 to come along and dual boot that with W7. I see 1343mb total available graphics memory, 1279mb shared system memory, and 64mb for dedicated video memory for my R60 with W7.

If I were you I would download the ISO for the Linux distro of your choice and take it for a test drive. Go to the linux communities also. They are very good as far as in depth knowledge and assistance with all things linux. I usually frequent the Ubuntu Forms when I have questions. Crunchbang Linux is also another good distro you may want to try.

emeraldgirl08 wrote: If I were you I would download the ISO for the Linux distro of your choice and take it for a test drive. Go to the linux communities also. They are very good as far as in depth knowledge and assistance with all things linux. I usually frequent the Ubuntu Forms when I have questions. Crunchbang Linux is also another good distro you may want to try.

Thanks currently checking out Linux Mint and Ubuntu out via ISO. Fedora next.

dr_st,

My T60p had a busted frame when I got it on eBay. The left hinge started getting pretty loose, and I asked around on here for help (2009ish). Someone here told me that letting it go for too long would lead to both hinges breaking off & the screen falling. So, it is just hearsay I guess. It seems plausible enough.

I've also got a T60 (Model 2007). Mine has a Core Duo T2400, 3GB, and the 14" standard (1024x768) screen. I really like the classic look and feel of the T60, and though I'm sometimes tempted by the X220 with the IPS screen (and will likely be further tempted when the Ivy Bridge Thinkpads start coming out), I think I'd to stick with the T60 until it breaks down.

I've already put in a Crucial C300 SSD. With a tax refund incoming, I'm considering upgrading to a T7200 and getting a better screen. How much difference is there in performance between the Core Duo and Core 2? Heat? Power consumption? How hard is it to change the screen, and what's the best screen I can put in the 14" 4:3 chassis?

With a C2D you get a 64-bit processor, so you could run 64-bit XP, Vista or W7.
The T7200 is a nice upgrade, can't tell you the %% though. T7400/T7600 are not worth the extra money.
T7200 should run cooler and give some nice oomph. About the same power consumption.
The best (and only) you can do in a 14.1" T60 is SXGA+ (1400x1050), alas not in IPS.
Using the Hardware Manual HMM, swapping the screen will take you less than an hour.
Do NOT rush, take your time.

RealBlackStuff wrote:With a C2D you get a 64-bit processor, so you could run 64-bit XP, Vista or W7.
The T7200 is a nice upgrade, can't tell you the %% though. T7400/T7600 are not worth the extra money.
T7200 should run cooler and give some nice oomph. About the same power consumption.
The best (and only) you can do in a 14.1" T60 is SXGA+ (1400x1050), alas not in IPS.
Using the Hardware Manual HMM, swapping the screen will take you less than an hour.
Do NOT rush, take your time.

Wow! Thank you for the fast reply and the link to the service manual. The CPU I want is the Socket M one, right? They're easy enough to find on ebay. What about a reliable source for a screen?

Correct.
Place a WTB in the Market forum for the LCD.

Beastcloud wrote:

From what I'm reading my Tandy 1000 could run Ubuntu

lol, minimum requirements are a joke.