Thinkpads Forum

So, after purchasing a 15" T60 a few months ago I really like this machine, but I have decided I could use the extra power a t61 board could give me, while not losing my very nice UXGA. I have done quit a lot of reading on the conversion but I have a few questions that I have not found answers for. If these answers are easily found in the forum or on Google I apologize.

After much searching and despairing, I have all but given up hope of finding a 42W7872 Penryn motherboard. This leaves me with the 42W7648, unless Lenovo made any post-08/08 4:3 Nvidia boards. I could not find out definitively whether or not they had. Does anyone know?

Assuming that Nvidia boards are out, I will buy a 42W7648 board. I know this can support Penryn if I flash the Middleton BIOS, but that it was not designed to, and only the Penryn boards support thermal sensing, but what exactly does that mean for me? Will the motherboard simply not be able to read the temperature of the CPU, or does the difference in boards affect other aspects as well?

If I were to buy a 42W7648, it would not cost much more to buy a whole system with the desired motherboard. I have heard (seen?) mention of it being possible to put a T60 motherboard into a T61 14" 4:3 frame, but can someone confirm this? I would do this to give to my mum or brother.

Thank you in advance, and thank you for this forum! It helped me decide to get a Thinkpad and seems like a really good community.

thenewzico wrote:I have heard (seen?) mention of it being possible to put a T60 motherboard into a T61 14" 4:3 frame, but can someone confirm this?

I did this a few times already with good results. It is a good decision to buy a complete working machine for the conversion, as a working machine proves that the included parts are actually working as intended. You will also have to slightly adapt the internal roll cage frame to make the T60 mainboard properly fit, but that is an easy task.

Cheers mate and thanks for the reply. Can you say exactly where and how the cage needs to be adapted?

thenewzico wrote:Can you say exactly where and how the cage needs to be adapted?

If you haven't already read the thread Parts for the ultimate 15” T60 UXGA FlexView w/T61(p) mobo? I believe you'll benefit from doing so - incl. the (other) closely related threads mentioned there.

Johan

My 42W7874 boarded Frankenpad's GPU finally went [censored]'s up a few weeks ago and I'm back to the stock T60p. MAN IT SUCKS! I can't wait to get another T61 board one of these day's, what a difference. I think I'll go with an Intel based board this time as I really felt the pain of the nVidia failing, as they all do/will/have.

Johan,

Thanks for the link but I have done most of my homework. I'd like to know if the thermal sensing error for a Penryn processor on a Meryon board means the board will not be able to read CPU temperature, and what exactly needs to be modded in the T61 frame to support a T60 motherboard. I didn't run across any of that in the links. Additionally, I have seen that you are a very active and helpful member of the community, and I thank you for that.

Banshee365,

Do all Nvidia boards eventually explode, or are some people still lucky? I won't get an Nvidia board, I'm just curious.

There is really no point 'frankenpadding' a T61 with a T60 motherboard, but I guess it would be a logical step, if you want to reuse the T61 chassis and the T60 mobo.
The T60 15" chassis only needs a bit 'shaved off' in one place, where the T61-modem-connector ends up.
A few minutes with a Dremel and you are done.
And the T60 frame requires a few less screws than the T61 frame.
Depending on the PCMCIA cage version, you may want/need to modify/replace the 'flap' as well.
It would make sense to expect the same when moving a T60 mobo into a T61 chassis.
Since both 'mate' rather well, it should be easy to see where it fits/does not fit.
Use your own initiative/imagination here.

Read up on the tons of posts in this forum about the expected lifespan of nVidia mobos.
Basically, any motherboard that was built in August 2008 and later has the new, modified nVidia graphics chip.
With any nVidia mobo older than that, it's Russian Roulette.

RealBlackStuff wrote:There is really no point 'frankenpadding' a T61 with a T60 motherboard, but I guess it would be a logical step, if you want to reuse the T61 chassis and the T60 mobo.
The T60 15" chassis only needs a bit 'shaved off' in one place, where the T61-modem-connector ends up.
A few minutes with a Dremel and you are done.
And the T60 frame requires a few less screws than the T61 frame.
Depending on the PCMCIA cage version, you may want/need to modify/replace the 'flap' as well.
It would make sense to expect the same when moving a T60 mobo into a T61 chassis.
Since both 'mate' rather well, it should be easy to see where it fits/does not fit.
Use your own initiative/imagination here.

Alright, thanks for the information. There is no point to want a frankenpad like that, but my mum won't know the difference.

TheRealBlackStuff wrote:Read up on the tons of posts in this forum about the expected lifespan of nVidia mobos.
Basically, any motherboard that was built in August 2008 and later has the new, modified nVidia graphics chip.
With any nVidia mobo older than that, it's Russian Roulette.

That's what I thought, but I wasn't sure.

I had done T60-T61 mobo swap twice. For putting T60 motherboard into T61 case you need to do the same thing as putting T61 motherboard into T60/p chassis, i.e. to file the structure frame in two places.
When putting T60 mobo into T61 chassis, you can keep the modem CDC with some efforts.

I have two Frankendpad with different motherboards: one is Penryn-supported (nVidia) and the other is non-penryn one (Intel). Both are flashed with Middletone's BIOS and I don't see big difference between them in term of functionality.

Binh wrote:I had done T60-T61 mobo swap twice. For putting T60 motherboard into T61 case you need to do the same thing as putting T61 motherboard into T60/p chassis, i.e. to file the structure frame in two places.
When putting T60 mobo into T61 chassis, you can keep the modem CDC with some efforts.

I have two Frankendpad with different motherboards: one is Penryn-supported (nVidia) and the other is non-penryn one (Intel). Both are flashed with Middletone's BIOS and I don't see big difference between them in term of functionality.

Thanks Binh! Do you have a Penryn CPU on the Intel board?

You are correct that they didn't make any 4:3 nvidia boards in 08/08, or if they did, I haven't been able to find one, or anyone with a speck of proof that they have made one. However, if you're able to source a nVidia board with penryn support that hasn't failed and been improperly repaired, it would likely work for many years. There were millions made, most still working.

I have been trying to find a board that has had the GPU replaced by lenovo to use in my frankNpad project, but I ended up sourcing an original T61 nVidia system that was pulled from service because of a damaged screen. I actually got an extra just in case, both combined cost far less then the $500+ a rechipped board would cost me.

The Intel boards are nice if you don't want to do graphic work or gaming, but in my opinion, after doing all this work and putting a lot of expensive parts into the build, I'd want to have some graphic power behind it... settling for netbook class graphics just doesn't thrill me.

Just be careful, there are many baked and reflowed nVidia systems out there, so if you do want to use an nVidia board, get one from a good source. I've been scammed a couple times myself on these things, but I've also found some very good ones too. Best option, if you don't know the boards history, then don't buy it.

Thanks Tuus! So you think, if I am careful, I can get an nVidia chip that is fine? I thought all of them were fatally flawed and waiting to conk out in the middle of an important project.

While TuuS makes several very valid points in his post, I'm just going to throw in my two cents from a slightly different perspective...

Everything really depends on what your needs are. If you routinely run applications that are graphic-intensive, X3100 is not going to cut it. For these purposes the original V5200/V5250 GPU used on T60p - or even V3200 seen on T43p - will outperform the integrated graphics by a significant margin. If that's the case, say a prayer to the deity of your choice and buy a nVidia board from a trustworthy source...once again, TuuS' name comes to mind...

However, if your primary demands are not graphics-related, an Intel board will suffice. I'm about done building a FrankenPad on an Intel planar, but I have other fish to fry: my T43p starts choking when I open 40 browser tabs + 3 Word docs and a PP presentation at the same time, it's looking for that second core which is just not there. So for my needs, a X3100 combined with a T9300 CPU will definitely work just fine, and then some. I'm not a gamer either so...for me it makes sense.

As for everything else - YMMV.

I also agree with pretty much everything george said.

As for the nVidia boards, the vast majority of the failed boards are from 2007 era, the Penryn boards (although rare in 4:3), were made in 2008 and don't fail as often. As far as official stats go, neither nVidia nor Lenovo will release any, but my sources inside lenovo tell me that the total number of nVidia claims on warranty aren't even a drop in the bucket compared to things like hinges, harddrives, ram chips, screens, etc... even after all these years I'd still estimate less then 1% of all manufactured failed. My own personal investigation has shown a staggering number of newly purchased units that fail, which can only lead to one conclusion... people are reselling failed boards that are improperly repaired. Some legitimate repair shops still reflow these chips because past thinkpads could be fixed this way. When you reflow an nVidia board, it will often work... it's not fixed, but the heat from the process moved things around inside the chip enough that you'll now have contact over a fracture that didn't before, but that fracture is still there and will resurface again in hours/days/weeks, or maybe even months with some luck. No one knows for sure if every nVidia chip will fail, I think to draw that conclusion isn't based on facts. One way to look at it is that every thinkpad ever made will fail sooner or later, so the real question is how long does a board have to last to be considered "good". There are still millions of pre-08/08 nvidia boards in service. If you look in lenovo's forum you'll see an average of 1-4 failures get reported each month. For my own records I usually disregard reports of newly purchased laptops, so the figures are probably even lower. I am the original owner of one that failed. I used it pretty much 24/7 for over 4 years before it failed, so I can't say it didn't have good cause to fail. I've also seen no indications that time is a factor. These failures seem to be completely random and started as far back as 2007. As they age the rate of failures hasn't increased, and may even decreased... it's hard to say for sure.

Anyway, I wouldn't rule out nVidia as an option. Since you're building this system yourself, you obviously have the experience to replace a board if it does eventually fail, so what I'd be asking myself if I were you is do you want to accept the risk and get the performance, or play it safe and settle for less performance, and less risk. If you are interested in an nVidia board, I have a couple that are well tested, both 42w7649 (merom) and 42w7873 (penryn). I've gone with this option on my own, and I do really like the Intel boards, they make good general purpose notebooks, but with my brand new boe hydis uxga screen (thanks RBS), I wanted performance. I plan on doing some moderate 3D gaming, things like Need4Speed for example, and I also like to do video encoding, so it just didn't make sense having the best screen of all my computers with the weakest graphic system. If I end up needing to swap out a board someday, then so be it... I'm not going to cry about it, I'll just do it if the need arises. I'm also hoping that there will someday be a reliable place to get new GPU chips installed, so I'm holding onto a couple boards for rechipping in the future.

In the end you'll need to decide what's important to you, and your needs.

Wow, this is great! The big four of T6x are all here!

ajkula66, thanks for the advice, however the increased power of a (working) nVidia board is enticing, especially if I am going to keep this machine for 3-4 years. Tuus, I am willing to use an nVidia board, as getting a working Intel board as a backup is not particularly difficult. I am more interested in a complete or mostly-complete system so I can give the 14" with T60 board to my mum, but that isn't required.

Thanks everyone for the help and advice, I'll be posting a WTB shortly.

I've done the FrankenPad mod before (see topic here) but I reverted it back to a T60 config because of stability issues.

However, because of this topic I got exited to do the mod again I did a quick search on eBay and did find a bottom frame of a T61 14" 4:3, X3100 GPU, complete with CPU fan, pc card and (simple) 1.8Ghz CPU

Backslashnl1 wrote:I've done the FrankenPad mod before (see topic here) but I reverted it back to a T60 config because of stability issues.

However, because of this topic I got exited to do the mod again I did a quick search on eBay and did find a bottom frame of a T61 14" 4:3, X3100 GPU, complete with CPU fan, pc card and (simple) 1.8Ghz CPU

Stability issues you say? What be these then?

Looking back, I suspect I had a faulty mainboard. It never was a rock solid system, blue screens when installing Windows 7 updates, and the machine did go into sleep mode or instant off without a reason. See my full statement about this here.

Today my T61 base cover + hardware arrived! It came complete with Core2Duo T7100, heatsink (42W2820), modem card, wifi card (Intel WM3945ABG), magnesium frame and bottom plate. Best of all, the mainboard FRU is 42W7872, Penryn ready All this for $61,62 + shipping. I bought my previous 42W7872 last year for over $250 and that was for the mainboard only

I also bought a Core2Duo T7500 for $14,95 inc shipping as my temporary cpu, which will be around the performance level of my current T7600. I'm going to test this setup for a couple of weeks, and if it keeps stable I will upgrade to a Penryn (T9x00) cpu. If this setup is not stable I can reinstall my current T60 config.

I'm excited to perform this mod, again

Throw that 3945 wifi card away (or sell it), it's junk.

I've an Intel 6300 N card so I don't use that 3945 wifi card

Installed the FrankenPad mod again today I didn't even reinstall Windows after the mod, but Windows runs pretty good. I only needed to install a new display driver and Intel chipset drivers. I will wait with a fresh Windows till I install a Penryn cpu.
I've had 1 blue screen so far during a Windows7 update and sometimes the screens goes black for 1 second. So far no strange shutdown problems.

Performance of my SSD is awesome

40kb picture:

Speaking of wireless cards, i have been doing a little searching and I can't find any site that does reviews of laptop wireless cards. Is there such a site, and failing that, what cards are deemed the best for a T61?

For sensitivity, I've become an Atheros brand-loyalist.

Radioguy wrote:For sensitivity, I've become an Atheros brand-loyalist.

+ 1 here and then some...