T61: Need new battery;is there better one then Lenovo's? PIC

[jwcacces]

Hello all,

This morning the battery on my T61 died. The power manager told me that it has failed due to normal wear and that I should replace it. It was a great battery, I'd get about 8 hours of use when it was new (though it was slowly shrinking in capacity since then). Considering it lasted over 4 years, 827 cycles, and was still giving a respectable 3 1/2 hours of use, I'd have to say it served me well.

My laptop is a T61 15.4" widescreen, 6465-CTO.
The battery I had was the 9 cell, 10.8 V, 7.8 AH, 84.24 Wh.
Its FRU is 92P1133, and I think that makes it a 41++?

I'd like to get a replacement, but buying it from Lenovo costs $179 (ouch).
I've seen "compatible" batteries for sale at eBay, Amazon, the numerous randoms, but they sure look shady. Many appear to have a lower capacity then the legit Lenovo 9 cell, and in reviews and forums I hear murmurings about miss-reported capacity, old / used cells, quickly wearing out, error messages, and even not fitting correctly! I use the advanced dock, so I need the correct fit. Plus who knows where their cells come from, or if they're even new. The last thing I want is a fireball on my desk.

So,
Does anyone know of a high quality, reputable battery replacement?
Do any exist with a higher capacity then the Lenovo 9 cell (greater then 84.24 Wh)?
Will I get the same great longevity (in terms of capacity staying strong over many charges) as my old battery?
Will it fit correctly?
Should I just get the genuine Lenovo one?
Is it really the 41++ I need?
Can it be found new for less then $179?
Is there anything else I should worry about?

Thanks much, I welcome any advice.
-James
(looking forward to being an 8 hour man again :)

Admin edit: Slightly changed subject line by adding PIC warning

[rkawakami]

Yes, 92P1133, along with my own 92P1131, is also known as the 41++ battery. I believe this is the most capacity that the factory offered for the T/R/W/Z/SL battery. If you want to stay with the factory batteries because of the possibility that the aftermarket ones won't charge, or you keep getting a popup saying that you're using a non-approved battery (there's a workaround for that), or that they won't fit properly, then the Lenovo Outlet store ( http://outlet.lenovo.com ) is worth a look. Currently there's 126 in stock for $112.49 apiece. However, if time is not of the essence, you could try hanging out on eBay for something like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/280933728001

Felt bad that nobody else wanted to bid against me but maybe they knew something that I just found out . Basically a NOS (new, old stock) battery which when first charged, showed 0 cycles, a manufacturing date of 2006-08 and a first used date of 2012-08. Left on the shelf for 6 years, I know that it probably won't be as good as a brand new one but hopefully it will soon be. What?!?! Keep reading...

Lately I've been snooping around eBay for the several X60 systems I'm running, looking for the 22++ battery. An experience with a rapidly heating aftermarket battery in an X60 pushed me back towards using the factory stuff. Besides, as you've noted, the aftermarket 8-cell X60 I have does not allow the laptop to be installed on the Ultrabase. With a recently arrived Z61p needing a battery, I went on eBay to look for one. There's many non-Lenovo batteries being offered but I wanted a factory one. Felt safer, although even then, I knew in the back of my mind that there's been some recalls on the factory batteries before. Tonight, as I was looking at the battery information I posted above, I thought about the recalls and dug up the Lenovo web site. As it turns out, the 92P1131 I won was the subject of the 2007 recall. I've just submitted my information to Lenovo's battery recall program web site, received a confirmation email that a battery will be sent within 4 weeks, so now it's wait and see.

ref: http://support.lenovo.com/en_US/detail. ... migr-67501 (41++ battery)

[dr_st]

I really would like to find out what this "Battery has failed due to normal wear" means. Whether it's something malfunctioning and locking inside the battery circuitry, which the Lenovo software just reports, or whether it's something that the Lenovo software detects upon which it forces the battery to lock itself and stop working.

[jwcacces]

@dr_st

I know, me too. I'd love to know what happened, fuse, thermal protection, cell damage, etc...
If anyone can tell me how to read out more details from the battery, I'll post those. Till then, I have this screenshot (resized, full size here) of the power meter. (I didn't take a screenshot of the "Battery Maintenance" page, because it didn't show any details)



-James

[jwcacces]

@rkawakami

The Lenovo Outlet store has 126 of the 44++, but as the "ThinkPad T/R/W/Z/SL Series 9 Cell Li-Ion Battery - Part number: 51J0467".

Is that the same thing as part number: 92P1133? If so, why do they have so many different part numbers for the same thing? It makes things very difficult for people like me

-James

[rkawakami]

I believe that different FRU immediately signals to them that it's a "refurbished" item. In the case of the batteries, it could be those that are returned with a non-functional system, verified by their techs as okay and then resolded as a slightly used item. These outlet batteries may already have a few cycles on them. One of the reasons why a simple thing like a battery can have multiple FRUs is that the factory will use different ones depending upon the manufacturer of the cells. For example, a 44++ battery could have cells made by Sanyo, Sony, or Panasonic and each one of those will have their own unique FRU.

[TuuS]

many parts have multiple compatible FRU numbers, not just batteries. One example is the power supply, or even system boards. In most cases it's best to look by application, not by fru number.

In regards to generic vs genuine, one of the problems with generics is all the recent "free-trade" laws allow personal shipments of small quantities of an item to avoid the normal regulations for export, and in doing so it paves the way to slip black-market batteries into the country. There are many good reliable generic batteries, I've used many myself, but it's hard to sell a $50 reliable generic when there is a $25 generic competing for the sale and most people purchase by price, then when a few of the $25 batteries overheat and destroy the laptop, people tend to blame all generic batteries leaving only the $150 lenovo option.

As for the "battery has failed" message, this is usually a case where the internal controller has detected a problem and shut the battery down. These controllers can be replaced, but if you have a cell that is overheating, it will likely repeat and kill the new board. If you were to test each cell, you could take a pile of batteries and select all the best cells and build some refurbished batteries. If someone wants to try this, I have a box of these, probably about a dozen or two and I had them listed for sale at $1 each. If I recall the controller cards cost about $9 each. It could be a fun project for someone so inclined, and even though $1 each is hardly worth the effort of packing and shipping, I'd even be willing to negotiate if someone wanted them, after all it's not about money, it's about sharing with the community.

I also have some used Genuine batteries for T, R and W series 500, 61 and 60.

[ac12]

I just ordered one from the Lenovo Outlet on Fri, and I just looked today, and no batteries are listed. Lenovo seems to put batteries up and take them down a few days later. If you need one, you gotta jump when you see it listed.

I decided to go with the smaller 6 cell battery, as I just did not want a setup with the battery sticking out the back. Clumsy me will figure out how to wack the battery and break the battery rails on the computer. I found that I don't need the extra battery life of the 9 cell battery, as most of the time I'm plugged into the AC outlet.

[Radioguy]

I use a 9-cell that's in good shape, but I still have my original 4-cell and hang on in hopes of doing my own DIY recell. I just wish I could reset the chip. It's a paperweight until then.

[bighank]

Got 2 good 9 cell batteries on Ebay for less than $30 shipped with a 3 year warranty. Latest version of power manager complains so don't use it. Otherwise they function fine,

[TuuS]

Got 2 good 9 cell batteries on Ebay for less than $30 shipped with a 3 year warranty. Latest version of power manager complains so don't use it. Otherwise they function fine,

Be careful, some of the ones selling on ebay are imported without being inspected to assure they have the proper safety circuits, basically smuggled in using the new "free-trade" laws that let small quantities cross boarders when they aren't shipped for resale. I do sometimes use generic batteries, but I only get them from trusted major distributors.