Thinkpads Forum

My T60's performance is quite sluggish (takes a couple of minutes to fully boot it), so I would like to increase the performance by adding an SSD (I added one to a 5 year old desktop system last year and the performance gains were incredible).

My T60 originally came with a 120Gb drive and Windows XP (which I'm still using). I upgraded to a 500Gb drive a couple of years ago, but I maintained the original system/recovery partitions on the new drive and use the the remaining 380Gb as a photos/music partition. I would like to install a 120Gb Intel SSD in the original harddrive slot and move the 500Gb drive to the optical bay. I want to keep the original system partition size and Windows XP again (straight clone). I know that I'll need some type of TRIM tool for XP.

Is this doable without major issues?

Regarding the Intel SSD... waste of money to get the 520 series over the 330?

Any recommendations for the harddrive adapters that I'll need, especially for the optical bay?

-Jeff

Upgrading a T60 from a mechanical HDD to a fast SSD is certainly absolutely doable, without any issues... except that you will never, ever be able to use the T60 with a (slow!) mechanical HDD again - because you will instantly fall in love with the wonderful speedy T60-SSD!

I am running several T60's with Intel SSD's (under Windows XP professional w/SP3), and I have had no issues at all with any of them. While you are correct that TRIM isn't supported under XP, and while XP typically is not partition-aligned, this does not mean much to Intel SSD's, since Intel have made available to very fine and completely free "Solid State Toolbox" (Google a bit, and you'll easily find it), which will take care of the TRIM-like support, also under XP. As to XP typically not being partition-aligned, many users have reported that Intel SSD's are largely insensitive to this, so again: No problems whatsoever.

Getting an Intel 330 or an Intel 520? Well, as you may perhaps know, T60's will "only" support SATA-I, so therefore you won't benefit anything (in speed) by getting a SATA-II og SATA-III SSD. If, however, you think a bit ahead, then a, say, SATA-III SSD may be used in a future computer (with native SATA-III support!), should you ever get one. In this respect, Intel SSD's are particularly attractive, because while they are "born as" being 9.5 mm tall, they may very easily be modified to only being 7 mm tall (by simply removing a plastic spacer at the top), which is the size used for many modern e.g. "ultrabooks". Therefore, an Intel SSD is more-or-less future-proof, compared to a drive having a fixed, permanent, non-changeable 9.5 mm height.

The Intel 330 series carries a 3-year warranty, while the Intel 520-series comes with an industry-leading 5-year waranty (!), and some may be satisfied with the former, while other users/customers will appreciate (but also have to pay for!) the latter... again: Your choice! In the thread Can anyone please tell me what the best 7mm SSD is? I shortly ago posted links to quite a few reviews about the Intel 520 - and as you will see, it currently ranks as the top SSD!

If you wish, I suggest you review the following threads (and the links pointed to therein), as they will perhaps be useful to you:SSD choice advice for T60 upgrade and T60 upgrade question and Upgrade the T60 and My Switch To SSD - HDTach Results Inside and Need advice on CPU upgrade for T60 2623-D6U and Latest Recommendations for SSD replacement to old 60 GB HD

If going the Intel SSD path, beware they have made available a free tool which will allow you to easily clone your existing HDD onto the new SSD (this tool being based on the well-known Acronis True Image software); see the Intel Intel Data Migration Software.

UltraBay SATA adapter for the T60? Well, either you can get a cheap, non-Lenovo Chinese thing off eBay for around $10 (e.g. one of these or you can get an expensive Lenovo-made, such as e.g. this. Try search e.g. on eBay or elsewhee for 26R9246/26R9247/40Y8725 for yet more options (as these are the Lenovo part-numbers for T60 SATA UltraBay adapters).

Johan

My T60 is booting in 40secs. See this thread:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=105987

Excellent summation, Johan.

Thanks for the detailed response. I was able to purchase one of the Lenovo optical bay adapters from the forum member that you referenced.

However, I am worried that purchasing a 120Gb SSD to replace my current 120Gb OS partition is going to be too small to do a direct cloning operation. I have read that once an SSD of this size is formatted, its usable space is closer to 110Gb. My T60 still has the original 120Gb XP system/recovery partitions that were shipped with it five years ago. How much of a hassle will it be for me to resize the original partition so that it will fit on the SSD and the Lenovo recovery partition will still work correctly. The original OS partition is probably only half full right now, so I have plenty of room to downsize.

-Jeff

Cloning from a rotational drive onto SSD is a very bad idea.

You want the fresh install. Trust me.

And if you can avoid XP, you'll have a lot less tweaking to do on that SSD. W7 is the way to go, especially on a machine that can run it with no sweat, like T60.

ajkula66 wrote:Cloning from a rotational drive onto SSD is a very bad idea.

You want the fresh install. Trust me.

I strongly disagree on this (completely unsupported postulate). Speaking from my own, actual, personal experience, I have cloned several HDD's with XP on T60's to Intel SSD's, and I have not experienced any difficulties; the resulting SSD-T60's have performed fast and flawless.

ajkula66 wrote:And if you can avoid XP, you'll have a lot less tweaking to do on that SSD. W7 is the way to go, especially on a machine that can run it with no sweat, like T60.

Again, I beg to disagree. A SSD-T60 with XP will run just fine, which can be verified by e.g. searching this forum for user-reports. As mentioned above, e.g. Intel's SSD's are known to be practically insensitive to partition alignment, and Intel has made available their free "SSD Toolbox", which will take care of the TRIM-like optimization, also under XP. That said, since Microsoft will terminate the support of XP (SP3) in April 2014, moving to another OS, e.g. Windows 7, will be necessary at some point.

Johan

>Cloning from a rotational drive onto SSD is a very bad idea.

I shouldn't have written "direct cloning". I have standalone backup software (Image For DOS) that can backup the entire drive or individual partitions. I've been using it for years without fail. When I upgraded my HDD from 120Gb to 500Gb (split into 120Gb and 380Gb partitions), I simply backed up my current drive, installed the new one, and restored the partitions from an external drive.

>And if you can avoid XP, you'll have a lot less tweaking to do on that SSD. W7 is the way to go, especially on a machine that can run it with no sweat, like T60.[/quote]

I agree, but there's no way that I'm going to rebuild my entire system from scratch. I have software development, CAD, and other applications on my T60 that I've owned for 10+ years. Trying to find all of the serial numbers for re-installs would probably be impossible.

-Jeff

Johan wrote: I strongly disagree on this (completely unsupported postulate). Speaking from my own, actual, personal experience, I have cloned several HDD's with XP on T60's to Intel SSD's, and I have not experienced any difficulties; the resulting SSD-T60's have performed fast and flawless.

A minimal web search will reveal that I'm hardly the only one suggesting this. The bottom line is, the geometry is different between HDD and SSD. An install that was optimized for a mechanical drive is not an optimal one for SSD.

http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www. ... 5Zwr_m3c7Q

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/27667 ... e-transfer

http://www.overclock.net/t/1284462/clon ... d-question

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=323842

Again, I beg to disagree. A SSD-T60 with XP will run just fine, which can be verified by e.g. searching this forum for user-reports. As mentioned above, e.g. Intel's SSD's are known to be practically insensitive to partition alignment, and Intel has made available their free "SSD Toolbox", which will take care of the TRIM-like optimization, also under XP. That said, since Microsoft will terminate the support of XP (SP3) in April 2014, moving to another OS, e.g. Windows 7, will be necessary at some point.

Johan

While Intel and newer Samsung SSDs have their own "garbage collection" functions under XP most of the others don't.

Quite a few sources suggest starting a fresh install on SSD with W7 and then switching to XP mid-way so the new drive gets aligned properly.

http://www.ocztechnology.com/ssdzone/tu ... ws_xp.html

http://www.overclock.net/t/813609/best- ... windows-xp

http://www.ssdworld.net/

Obviously, to each his/hers own but my experiences with XP on SSD have left a lot to be desired even after applying the most commonly suggested tweaks.

YMMV.

Given that XP installs deteriorate considerably over time, every chance to "nuke and pave" should be seen as an opportunity instead of a burden.

If one has an abiding love for XP, custom install CDs based on VLK Pro .isos and with any additional drivers you like are easy to make. Google "nlite" and "slipstreaming XP" etc.

I have software development, CAD, and other applications on my T60 that I've owned for 10+ years. Trying to find all of the serial numbers for re-installs would probably be impossible.

Since you have an intact drive, use something like Belarc Advisor to get all your product keys and serials. What if your current drive dies before you can clone it? Get that info no matter what you do. Keyfinders are plentiful, and you can Google "program name" plus "keyfinder" to narrow it down. With it taking so long to boot, it will still have issues if cloned. You can safely complete a clean install on another drive and if that doesn't do what you want you can then clone if need be.

Johan wrote: -snip-

If going the Intel SSD path, beware they have made available a free tool which will allow you to easily clone your existing HDD onto the new SSD (this tool being based on the well-known Acronis True Image software); see the Intel Intel Data Migration Software.

-snip-

Johan

Thank you so much, Johan, for the great great post, the most encouraging one by far that I've seen yet, for me. My very first SSD should arrive in a few days, an Intel 330 180GB. I hope to put it in a T60 that's running XP Pro, one I bought 6 years ago that still has its original 60GB HD. Living with that relatively small (and slow!) HD has been a challenge. I hope to run XP on it with the SSD.

Above I quote a portion of the post that excited me. My question is did you mean "beware" or did you mean "be aware?" Should I be wary or just aware? Big difference! Thanks again.

Johan's native language is Danish, I'm sure he meant: BE AWARE

You can easily manually make the partition with a tool such as Gparted which you can boot into from Hiren's Boot CD. on a SSD - make the partition at a MiB (MegaByte) boundary of 1MB. Then once you have manually made the partition - use a tool such as PING or Acronis to backup-restore the image to the partition you previously had / newly created.

Muse wrote:Above I quote a portion of the post that excited me. My question is did you mean "beware" or did you mean "be aware?" Should I be wary or just aware? Big difference!

Very sorry for leaving you confused (my error!), but "of course" I meant be aware (or "be hereby informed", "kindly notice" etc). By the way, now that you've taken the Intel path (and congratulations, I am confident that you won't regret!), you will also want to get the free and very useful Intel Solid-State Drive Toolbox which is especially useful under XP (it will help you keep the '330 running fast).

I am actually using an (180 GB) Intel 330 on the 10+ year old Dell desktop, that I am writing this on; I am running XP (SP3) on this machine, and I cloned the SSD directly from the old HDD. I have experienced absolutely zero problems with this (cloned) SSD/desktop configuration, so in direct contradiction to some comments e.g. in this thread that XP HDD installations should certainly not be cloned onto (e.g. Intel) SSD's, my own, direct, personal experience - from this and a number of other computers - is that HDD's can indeed be cloned onto SSD's with no problems whatsoever.

If you are however very eager to squeeze out the last bit of performance of your new SSD, then you may want to see if a partition alignment will improve things. There are a number of free tools/techniques for doing this (many of which have been discussed on this forum; try search for "partition alignment"!), incl., I believe, the free MiniTool Free Partition Manager Software Home Edition.

Best of luck with your new SSD setup - and please keep us posted with your experience (satisfaction!), once all is up and running.

PS: In the case that you haven't already done it, you may perhaps also want to "max. out" your T60 with 3 GB or RAM, now that you're "opening up" it anyway? If so, see e.g. see the thread T60 upgrade question for the specific (Crucial) part numbers.

Johan

One thing that misaligned partition causes besides worse write performance is the lifetime of the SSD. And since I want those things to be perfect, I always partition the drive using W7 install disk and make a clean install.

Update:

... to the discussion about partition alignment: Is could seem as if the (free!) Acronis AlignTool - Intel SSD Edition is also usable for the '330 series Intel SSD's, according to e.g. Intel 330 series SSD - Alignment necessary on XP?

As to the Intel SSD running slower (e.g. under XP) without partition alignment, several users have reported this not to be the case; see e.g. the posts on this forum by member lophiomys describing his use of an Intel '320 in a T42p with and without partition alignment. Partition alignment may however improve the SSD lifetime.

NB: Users who start to play with partition alignment are strongly suggested to make a backup before tweaking with the partitions

Johan

If you upgrade to an SSD you might want to flash the BIOS with the unofficial one supporting SATA2, as the standard BIOS on T6x machines is limited to SATA1 and therefore 150 Megabyte per second.

EDIT: what I wrote is not applicable to a T60* (which is limited to SATA1) therefore I advise against buying an SSD for such an old machine.

It is only applicable to T61/p, and it has no effect on T60/p.

You can get a cheaper SSD because SATA II is not supported by T60.

jbcdidgosir wrote:You can get a cheaper SSD because SATA II is not supported by T60.

Cheap SSD usually equals data corruption and a drive dying within weeks/months.

Nothing wrong with running a *quality* newer SSD with SATA III speeds on older hardware, including T60 platform. Reliability - not the theoretical speed - is the key word here.

ajkula66 wrote:
Cheap SSD usually equals data corruption and a drive dying within weeks/months.

Nothing wrong with running a *quality* newer SSD with SATA III speeds on older hardware, including T60 platform. Reliability - not the theoretical speed - is the key word here.

With that in mind I bought an Intel 520 120GB SSD yesterday off ebay. Seller represents it as new in packaging including SATA cable and instructions. I suppose it's OEM (i.e. doesn't have the bracket), but I intend to put it in my T60 T5500 and run XP on it.

I intend to put the Intel 330 180GB SSD drive I bought that I posted about above in my mid-tower system, divide into 2 or 3 partitions and install XP on the first two partitions. I like to multiboot that machine, both to have a backup OS for troubleshooting and to have a fall back OS for when my day to day install goes bad (they always seem to, although I swear I'm running on my original XP install on my 6 year old T60).

I heard that the 520 series has better flash memory than the 330 series and can be expected to last 40% longer. I believe they also have 5 year versus 3 year warranty.

My concern with this is will Intel honor the warranty on this, however at $100 I figured I could take the risk.

1. Will they at least let me register it? Will they honor the warranty?

2. Should I upgrade the BIOS on the T60?

Old thread, same concern, new model ... I posted this question in another thread on this forum and wanted to see if anyone would weigh-in. I would like to upgrade my current hdd to a ssd and would prefer not to be limited to anything under 500 gb. I currently operate a T60 2623 with Win 7 pro and would like to squeeze every little bit of life left on this legacy system as it has served me very well. I have read on this forum that, apparently, there are only 2 reliable kinds of SSD - Crucial and Intel (with Intel being the brand of choice on this thread).

Now my question: is it worth investing in an Intel SSD series S3500/S3610 vs a Crucial M550? The Intel SSD are more expensive than Crucial, but I have no problem paying extra for reliability and consistency (unless the difference between both brands is negligible). Given that both drives are SATA III, I can also swap the hd into a newer system once I decide to upgrade to new hardware. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks for your help.

While I understand your concern (especially with respect to the reliability-issue), and while I have previously been buying Intel SSD's based on the assumption that they *are* more reliable than many competitors' SSD's (congratulations, Intel; your marketing and advertising has worked just fine with me!), I would perhaps today rather be tempted to look more seriously at the competitors (comparing specifications, prices and warranty against the more expensive Intel).

The reason? The reliability of SSD's must no doubt have increased (significantly, I'd assume) during recent years to a point where the average user may be very well served and fully satisfied with something that is not exactly the most expensive, fastest, SLC top-of-the-notch SSD's. Also: What's the benefit/advantage of having an expensive SSD failing, compared to having a less expensive SSD failing, if you don't have a backup that you easily can restore? If the more expensive SSD has a longer warranty, then you're perhaps entitled to a "free" (= covered under the warranty) SSD, but your data are equally lost, regardless of your SSD being cheap or expensive (and "high-reliability" or not...), if the failing SSD is just plain dead!

In other words, if I was after such a large SSD as 500 GB+, I would not necessarily go the Intel-route, but I’d rather make certain always to keep a good, recent image of my drive (see e.g. the thread Best choice of external 2.5" HDD USB-drive for backup? for a discussion of backup-drives and -strategy), and make sure to keep backup of recent files etc. This strategy should obviously be completely independent of both the price AND of the anticipated reliability of your drive!

If not going the expensive "reliable" Intel-route, I would seriously look at especially the Samsung 840 Pro's. Crucial M550 may be another interesting option; compare specifications (incl. power consumption), duration of warranty etc. Read user-reviews! As you already know, the T60's will only support SATA-I speed, so regardless of what SSD you end up getting it will by far be limited by the T60 SATA-I. If, however, you sometime in the future wish to use your new SSD in a newer computer, then you will obviously benefit from its speed. But, in a T60, anything will work superfast.

Whatever SSD you're getting, you life will surely never (!) be the same again.. you will no doubt enjoy much more... speed!

PS: Keep an eye out at SlickDeals (see e.g. this) etc.!

Johan

Grandmaster Johan, thank you for your response. I was hoping that you would answer my post given your excellent answers on this thread. I appreciate your guidance.