Another T61 upgrader?

[Limey Rich]

Hi everyone. Just joined. I have been researching what could be done to beef up the T61 for a couple of months. Enjoying and appreciating the excellent info and advice available in this forum.
I used to buy older IBM laptops as a reasonable alternative to the overpriced and quickly obsoleted offerings from the other companies. My last 333mhz Thinkpad finally became just too much of a dinosaur. So about four years ago I let the wife talk me into a brand new Gateway. Well, it had a nice dual core AMD chip and 2G of memory with a 320G HD, nice display, it works, but I just cannot work with sloooow Vista. I hate it so badly that I cannot stand the laptop!
So about three months ago I bought an older Lenovo. Here are it's specs:
Lenovo Thinkpad T61. Type 7661-BF3
Intel Core 2 Duo 2.4 Ghz 64k (L1 cache?) 4096k (L2 cache?)
2GB memory ( I have 4GB of Gskill dual channel ready to install)
Intel 965 Express graphics 1440x900 14.1"
Toshiba 160g hdd. (passed SMART)
Bluetooth
integrated camera
Fingerprint coprocessor
middleton 2.26 bios ( a couple of days ago )
USB, Firewire, wifi. etc.
Win XP 32 bit, pro.
(And, it seems much faster than the Gateway Vista slug)

Condition excellent, no scrapes, no scratches, no bruises, no signs of wear anywhere, I mean it looks like it virtually sat in a case unused for its lifetime.
Couldn't find a motherboard number anywhere, and it has a huge Lenovo battery pack that I cannot identify. I was surprised at the Toshiba Hdd, though as I thought IBM/Lenovo used Hitachi?, I could be mistaken. Overall very,very, pleased with it. I would have preferred Win 7 pro to be on it, but I have an extra 32 bit oem version anyway. (Now the wifes 4 month old 17 " Macbook pro blows it out of the water, as does my Ipad, but.. Apple OSes... they just do not appeal to me. I cant identify my dislike.)

My questions to you guys are: Do you recognize which CPU this is? is it worth putting in a faster Penryn? Should I get a 64 bit version of Win7?
(My desktop( 4 core black edition AMD @3.4Ghz) currently dual boots with XP pro and Win 7 pro 32 bit. I was thinking along the same lines for this T61)
And what is the real world speed difference of the SSD?

Thanks. All the best,Cheers! Rich.

[Radioguy]

Sounds like a T7700. Theoretically, you can upgrade to an X9000 (or X9100 with some modding), but your safest bet is a T9300 or T9500, with the former being the more cost-effective choice. You may need the current modded "Middleton" BIOS to make it compatible (which would help you in other ways too - full SATA II capability, more compatibility with various wi-fi cards, etc), though. Others can give more definitive answers about the SSD, but I can say it will certainly speed things up. The main thing regarding that is that XP and and SSDs don't work well together without added third-party software. Going with Win 7, which is an improvement over Vista, is the easiest solution. 4GB of RAM might improve things as well.

[Cigarguy]

Biggest upgrade is SSD, then RAM. Our T61 is still very capable. CPU upgrade is nice but that's a pretty fast one already. Going to a T9300 will be slightly faster however the T9300 runs cooler. Win 7 64 will allow you to use all 4 GB.

[Limey Rich]

Thanks Cigarguy and Radioguy.
A few more T61 newbie questions.
My questions may be more subjective than objective. I need to write out my thought processes now, or risk coming back later and not know what I meant! LOL.
Bear in mind that I will really be using my T61 for secure mobile computing. Entertainment and gaming will fall a distant third in importance.
Although I already have a 32 bit Win 7pro waiting for a home, should I get a 64 bit version, as a prelude to using an SSD?
Or conversely just get a sataII 7200rpm 500G 2.5" hdd, and install my 32 bit Win 7 ?
I'm seeing some different letter designations for T9300 chips. Are all T9300 's the same, do they all fit our boards? Do the different letter designations indicate lesser chip versions?
Will that 1 tenth of a gig speed differential, and 2 gb more L2 cache really show up in real world speed?
Of course a cooler running chip is always nice.
Is the Intel mobile graphics kind of a lid on T61 performance? As onboard graphics in (ATX) computers have been?
It appears that I used the latest middleton bios, and posted it as 2.26, instead of 2.29.
All the best. Cheers! Rich.

[ac12]

If you did not already have 4GB, I would have said go for 8GB.
I have 8GB in my T61 running Win7-64bit. That way I won't have to dump the 4GB RAM to upgrade to 8GB later, if I need more RAM.
I don't know if Win7-64bit is much of an advantage over the 32bit version, with only 4GB of RAM. Although the company I currently contract at has installed Win7-64bit in their 4GB laptops.

For traveling and the bumps and shocks associated with travel, IMHO, a SSD has the durability advantage over a spinning disk, even with the technology advances in HD. Plus you get faster response from the SSD. The trade-off is less capacity and a higher cost than a HD.
I went with a 7200rpm HD because I could not justify the higher cost of a SSD. And it seems just fine for what I do.

There is a version of Win7 with built in security, that would be nice for a mobile computer, but I don't remember which version it was. There is probably a 3rd party product that will do similar.

[Cigarguy]

Being able to use 4 GB vs 3 GB is nice that's about the biggest advantage between Win 64 or 32 bit. You decide if you want to spend that much many. For 90% of most users out there 4 GB is plenty.

A SSD is a huge improvement over a HDD. One you've tried one you'll have a hard time going back. I've got a couple of system running a Seagate Hybrid drive. While this is fast, it still nowhere near a SSD. SSD is the biggest upgrade to the overall computing experience. Personally I'd just pick the cheapest drive at the capacity you want. SSD are always on sale. However some folks swear by Intel or Samsung, your money your call.

If you need more capacity, you can always install a HDD in the Ultrabay via an adapter. This is what I did; $80 for an on sale 128 GB SSD, $20ish for an Ultrabay adapter, and $50 for a 1 TB HDD. OS and all programs installed on SSD while all data is stored on HDD. HDD is backed up every other day. Don't care about programs and OS as these can easily be wiped cleaned and reloaded.

[Limey Rich]

Thanks for everyone's time, posts, and help.
You have pointed me in a direction, and helped me to formulate a plan.
We have our own mobile WiFi, and 110v is not a problem when traveling in the old MoHo. I could use my I-Pad for my mobile computing, but not having firewalls, antivirus, and the other protective tools I like makes me nervous.( Plus I don't quite trust Apple not to have ALL my data stored "securely") We know how many big and techy "secure" companies have been hacked. So:
1.) I want a much larger drive than the 160GB. I already own a fresh Win7 32bit, and the 4 gig of memory. Therefore,
A high capacity 7200rpm SataII 2.5' drive will be the next purchase. Install the 32 bit OS, and the 4GB of memory, in the new drive, for now. See how I like the T61 in that form.

2.) later, purchase a T9300 or T9500 (probably from one of the resellers in this forum), mostly because they use less power and run cooler. The extra performance will be a bonus.

3.) Then, later next year, get an Ultrabay adaptor, and buy an SSD on sale, Pick up 8 gb of memory. get an OEM Win 7 64 bit. Load OS and programs on the SSD. (just like using the first partition on a regular drive), and the hdd becomes storage for data and, maybe, programs that do not need the ssd speed.

That spreads things out a bit, gives me time to get used to the changes, and should work nicely for me, barring unforeseen disasters of course. I think this makes sense.
Am I missing something obvious?
All the best. Cheers! Rich.

[Radioguy]

You seem to have it down pat, and propose a good plan. In fact, so much so, that I wish you had been a third party candidate.

[Cigarguy]

Looks good. Regarding the 8 GB of RAM, will you need that much? Or is this nice to have? I would understand if it's just nice to have as I'm the same way. Two of my T61 have 8 GB of RAM even though I never come close to using that much. At $160 for 2x4GB it wasn't cheap but this was the last upgrade after SSD and CPU.

[miro_gt]

I'll also try to answer all your questions in short:

- if you have 2.4GHz CPU with 4MB cache then you have T7700 CPU.
- yes it's worth upgrading to T9300 or T9500, other Penryns - not worth so much (X9000 - too expensive, T8x00 - low power cpu)
- the "different letter designations" is the spec of the particular chip. In general you dont want engineering sample chips, so watch out for chips with spec Qxxx (x - different) or similar to that. If you get confused, post spec on here and I'll tell if its an ES or not.
- if you want T9500 then best is SLAYX, next is SLAQH. First has 0.025V less voltage requirement. No biggie though, but you can find second one a bit cheaper. I have both of those variants in the two T61 laptops in my sig.
- if you want T9300 then best is SLAYY, followed by SLAQG. I suppose same voltage differences.
- I would not get 64bit windows. Reason is there's tons of software for 32bit OS, and severely limited for 64bit OS. The only case where you would need 64bit OS is if you use software that is heavy on RAM usage, yet in this case you will want more than 8GB of RAM and much faster CPU anyways, so this laptop wont cut it. Stick with 4GB RAM and 32bit OS, your best bet IMO.
- Intel graphics is the lowest performance GPU Lenovo put in the T61. There are T61 laptops with two different nVidia GPUs, and each comes in two versions, so 4 total, and all 4 are more powerful than the Intel one. There may be other issues with those though, like chips dieing out, lol. At least with Intel you're safe on that part, but the performance hit is there as well.
- yes you should flash the Middletons BIOS, lots of improvements over the stock Lenovo BIOSes.
- an SSD will be huge boost in speeds for the laptop, and you'll notice it every day. Watch out though, it's not easy to pick the right SSD. This is long topic so you may want to look around at some other threads for more info.

good luck.

[Limey Rich]

You seem to have it down pat, and propose a good plan. In fact, so much so, that I wish you had been a third party candidate.

Luckily for the world my oncologist, and a government psychologist agree that I am no longer fit for duty, and should find a gentle hobby.
And, luckily for me I was born in England and am still a subject of the Queen.Therefore ineligible for American politics. Sorry to disappoint.
Besides, philosophically I am opposed to monarchs and politicians, and I am unanimous in that.

Ok now. I didn't waste any time, and being a long time fan of WD drives I ordered a 500GB, SATA 3Gb sec', 7200rpm, "Scorpio Black" from Newegg. So that locks in my second change to the T61. Middleton's 2.29 bios being the first.
Appreciating the relevant elucidation of this forum more each day!
All the best. Cheers! Rich.

[ducky2802]

If you have a 32 bit key, you can download from microsoft the 64 bit installer and use the same key to activate. Its up to you if you deem it worthwhile, but I use 64 bit on all my machines now. Win 7 64 bit doesnt have the huge incompatibility list of win XP 64 bit, it just works with nearly everything Ive ever installed on it-- usually for me the bigger issue was really old xp 32 bit software that doesnt even work with win 7 32 bit moreso than win 7 being 64 bit not working with a particular program. Even then, virtual mode solves most of those.

SSD is the way to go if you dont need all that much space or willing to pay a premium. $40 for the older intel X25 80gb, BF samsung 830, crucial M4 128gb anticipated in the $60-$70 range, and 256gb variants at roughly double the price. You definitely need to flash for sataII speeds regardless if mechanical or SSD.

[TuuS]

You have some very good advice here, the only thing I really don't agree with is your statement that vista is slow. Generally a fully updated vista will run about the same as windows seven. It got a bad reputation when it first released, mostly because of users not understanding the strict user account protections, but it virtually ended the problem of "drive by" trogen infections. It also had some bugs when first released, but vista sp2 is a very good OS, and unless you have less then 2gb of ram, it's faster then XP, at least in my opinion.

I do prefer seven, but you can get ten used copies of vista for the cost of one oem win7. If I was setting up a group of systems for a business there is no question which I'd use, and being that XP is almost a dozen years old and is still supported by MS, I suspect Vista has a decade of life left in her.

Vista isn't the best, but definitely a good OS in my opinion.

[Limey Rich]

Tuus I have really enjoyed some of your threads here!
You are very probably right about Vista, Tuus, but my early experiences with Vista on that Gateway were exceedingly slow and frustrating. It is also possible that the Gateway is partially crippled by Gateways own software package. I haven't tried to straighten out Vista, or the Gateway, since. I just start and run the thing periodically to keep it alive. lol.
I am far from familiar with Vista, when 7 came along it was easy and worked right away.
Until recently, due to my prior health problems, I have not had the strength to deal with difficult and frustrating problems.
Although I have built, and/or refurbed several ATX tower systems since 1999. I am new to the insides of Laptops
Now I am feeling much better, and perhaps when my T61 is humming along, I will revisit the Gateway.
I was hoping that you would see my thread, and offer your expertise on obtaining the correct T9300, or possibly have a T9300 you could sell me. I also, fully agree with your earlier posts on not purchasing or installing, previously abused CPUs.
Thanks! All the best. Cheers! Rich.

[Oro]

This summer I got a T61p and went through an upgrade process. Started with 32bit Vista, 2gb, T7300, G wireless and changed one thing at a time, noting changes. My usage is word, excel, internet with a little, but not much video streaming, some mild non-graphics pushing games (it has the 256mb Nvidia 570 in it). I learned on my own many of the things said on here:

1) 32 bit Vista was really not bad and a nice step up over XP (I was using before).
2) Switched to 64bit 7 and really like it, like ducky2802 said there's not the incompatibility problem like xp.
3) Upgraded to 4gb once I had 64bit OS, made a small difference.
4) Upgraded to T9300, made very little difference for my usage. Temps, as monitored before/after with TPFancontrol, were virtually unchanged - only a very few degrees if that.
5) 128GB Samsung SSD, which is by far the nicest change.
6) Ultrabay adapter and 500GB hard drive if I need large storage later, still plenty of room on SSD until I start shooting more pictures next summer (I like photography).
7) Intel 5300 N card. Nice performance, but started dropping signal after a week. have not tracked down if it is my (OLD) modem or (new) wireless N router, though. But am having dropped signal now with N but don't know the reason yet.

So I have little to add to what has been said other than for me, the expense of the T9300 was not important, and if you are counting dollars, get the SSD first.

[TuuS]

Rich, I have Vista 32 and 64bit oem discs that have service pack 2 integrated. If you have vista Business (same as professional versions), ultimate or enterprise, you can install either with your COA, home versions are 32bit only. If you have (or will have) 4gb ram or more, then 64bit is the way to go. If you want to upgrade your version of vista, I have some genuine COAs that I'm sharing very cheap too, or if you want just the disc we can work something out, send me a PM and we can discuss it.

Regarding your CPU, I have a couple T9300 chips pulled from the best late model T61p systems. They were never abused or overclocked and are a great deal at $70, only slightly more then the chips pulled from systems that are broken, abused or even burned in electrical fires in some cases. If you want one we can discuss that too. I'd also be glad to help with anything else you need, as I have boxes and boxes full of T61 parts, virtually anything you could want.

As far as your gateway goes, if it shipped with vista sp0, then it will have some issues. You could install the service packs, but if it's already bogged down then you'd be better off installing fresh. If you have sufficient room on your drive, you can repartition the drive with a freeware app called "parted magic", it's a bootable linux CD that can resize your existing partition and make a new one, the install Vista SP2 in the new partition and it will become your default OS, but you'll have a boot menu so you can still load your old installation if you need to. This will avoid needing to wipe the drive. You'll want at least 2gb for vista to breath.

Getting rid of the bloatware will be a big plus too.

[Muse]

And, luckily for me I was born in England and am still a subject of the Queen.Therefore ineligible for American politics. Sorry to disappoint.

Actually, you're only ineligible to be president. The rest is open season.

[jbcdidgosir]

I have upgraded the CPU to X9000(qualified sample), cost $91. It's so good to run the vmware. Just hotter than the previous CPU(T7100). But it can be solved by speeding up the fan speed.

CPU speed test by Super pi, 100W:
T7100: 45s
X9000: 15S (when frequency to 3.2G by ThrottleStop)

[Limey Rich]

Hi, been tied up with other things for a couple of weeks,time to get cracking on upgrading the T-61. I Have just a few questions before cloning the T61 hdd to the new WD 500g scorpio. First, I haven't found a thread about the fingerprint I.D. security system. I do not want to lose this feature. Which leads to an old subject for this forum. Hidden partitions for IBM/Lenovo security software. As my T61 came with everything installed (Win XP) and no discs, will making the recovery discs allow me to re-install the security software? This seems to be a historical problem area for hdd cloning and/or migration to larger hdds. The discussions in the Hdd FAQ seems to dwindle out before the T61s are mentioned though. Does this mean I will not have the problems associated with earlier models?
I am planning on using the WD free version of Acronis to do the cloning.
Thanks in advance for any heads up you may give.
All the best. Cheers!. Rich.

[Limey Rich]

Actually, you're only ineligible to be president. The rest is open season.

Hand me that ring! I will be a just, but fearsome ruler! You will kneel before me!!

No, no, I had better not. Not even dogcatcher, and I like doggies! A man just has to know his limitations.

Just found a post I had missed on SSD installation.

"Need advice on SSD upgrade and Windows version"

Had lots of great info in it, quite a bit pertinent to using a 7200 rpm hdd also. I'm now thinking that I need to search the Lenovo site again for the software packages that I missed. I.E "fingerprint" and the newer security package.
Also, think I will use my 16 gb data traveller as a back up clone of XP, just have to make it bootable. The big thing is , mustn't do this when tired! LOL, yawn.

And the right Lenovo page for the software! Just changed my google search, that beat the "wading" I was going thru before! ( T61 specific) :

http://support.lenovo.com/en_US/researc ... MIGR-67853

On the Penryn 9300 CPU, I am going to wait until late January. I just have too many other obligations to spend the extra time on the T61.
All the best.Cheers! Rich.

[Muse]

I too have the WD Acronis software, printed out the rather large manual some time ago but have not yet used the software. Instead, I have used Ghost 2003, which I'm fairly familiar with, at least the version that boots from a CD with a nice and simple GUI. I think the Acronis will do what you want. And if it doesn't somehow you can still go back to your old HD and start over, right?

I think you will not have trouble getting your fingerprint reading software functioning. One of my machines has a problem with the fingerprint reader, but I gave up on trying to get it to work, it's almost as easy to type in my windows password anyway.

I received my first SSD yesterday, haven't installed it yet, an Intel 520 120GB. Another SSD is due to arrive any day, an Intel 520 180GB, that I intend to put in my midtower system. the 120GB will go in my T60. I have a feeling that I will eventually (maybe sooner than later) put an SSD in the machine I'm using right now, a T61.

[cadillacmike68]

Acronis works great. Just run it in complete manual mode. I don't even think my retail versions came with anything resembling a manual. Cloning is under tools / utilities. Ignore any warnings that your system is not backed up. Cloning is better than a backup.

Another T61 fan - that 's great. I finally made my wife's new(er) T61s reader for her use while i was home on leave. They're very good machines. All of my T61 are intel graphics and the Arconis made clones of her original T61 8897 worked perfectly in the 6463 and 8898-AGM on first boot-up. Even the fingerprint reader in the 8898-AGM worked the first time as copied from the 8897.