Which T60 to buy

[smallfry]

Hi,
as my T42p slowly dies I will need a new TP soon.
I have already generally decided on a 15" T60(p) (for 4:3 and screen size) but am unsure which model to choose.

I am using my TP mainly for surfing, emails and Office and although I often work on large Excel documents performance is not an issue even with my current laptop. OS currently is Win XP but will be upgraded to Win 7 with the T60.

Heat, though, always is a problem and through the constantly blowing fan, noise as well.
Performance also becomes a problem when I watch live streams from the net (sports, movies). The laptop gets very hot (like upper 80s C) and sometimes I have to stop the stream for a while to let it cool off.

I have learned so far that the T60s come with either an Intel or an ATI X1300 or X1400 GPU where as the T60p uses a ATI Fire GL.
Intel seems to be the weakest but coolest solution with, obviously, the Fire GL on the other end of the spectrum.

So my questios are:
Would a T60 with Intel video be weaker or stronger than my current T42p in terms of watching live streams?
Is there even a noticable difference (in terms of my user profile) between the different video solutions?
Do T60ps have heat issues (as T42ps apparently have)?
Any other thoughts or approaches to my problem?

[dr_st]

Heat, though, always is a problem and through the constantly blowing fan, noise as well.

In which case you should definitely avoid the T60p, and possibly the X1400-equipped T60 (which doesn't get so hot, but the fan does end up running most of the times, unless you undervolt). X1300/Intel should be noticeably cooler and also quieter. With that said, if you want the 15" screen to be Flexview (IPS), then such a screen will be difficult to find with the X1300, and very difficult with the Intel GPU.

Would a T60 with Intel video be weaker or stronger than my current T42p in terms of watching live streams?
Is there even a noticable difference (in terms of my user profile) between the different video solutions?

I believe that it is largely irrelevant. I think none of these GPUs - Intel or Radeon offers hardware acceleration for video content (or they do, for a very few video types). So 95% of the time the CPU will be doing all the processing, and being dual core, the T60 CPUs will offer a big boost over your current T60p (just don't get the ultra-cheap Core Solo model).

Do T60ps have heat issues (as T42ps apparently have)?

Yes.

Any other thoughts or approaches to my problem?

While I understand your attraction to 4:3 screens (my main personal laptop is a T60 too, after all!), there is something to be said with upgrading an 8-year platform to a 6-year old platform, which is what you will be doing by getting a T60. They are really getting long in the tooth. I don't mind, because I have a much more powerful desktop CPU and a corporate-issued T410 for serious work, but if it was my only/primary machine, it simply wouldn't be cutting it anymore.

I don't know whether you have other machines, but if you intend this Thinkpad to be a primary one and want to rely on it for your work - considering going the T60/61 Frankenpad route at least - it will allow you to retain the nice 15" 4:3 IPS screen, while using a platform that will go significantly further in terms of supported CPU speeds, RAM size and drive speeds.

[pianowizard]

While I understand your attraction to 4:3 screens (my main personal laptop is a T60 too, after all!), there is something to be said with upgrading an 8-year platform to a 6-year old platform, which is what you will be doing by getting a T60. They are really getting long in the tooth. I don't mind, because I have a much more powerful desktop CPU and a corporate-issued T410 for serious work, but if it was my only/primary machine, it simply wouldn't be cutting it anymore.

I completely agree. When someone wants a recommendation for a dirt cheap (<$120), basic, reliable laptop, I still recommend the T60/60p, but for anyone with a higher budget, I think they shouldn't consider anything older than the T61.

smallfry, have you had much experience with 15.4" 1920x1200 screens? They are actually very good for productivity and back in 2006 I had little difficulty transitioning from 15.0" 1600x1200 to 15.4" 1920x1200. If you worry about things looking too small on 15.4" 1920x1200, 1680x1050 would still be pretty good. The T61 and T500 used high-quality 15.4" 1680x1050 screens that were almost as good as IPS panels, IMO.

[smallfry]

Thank you for your thoughts.
I would love to buy a newer machine. Actually I was shocked to find out some weeks ago that there are no new 4:3 laptops being made anymore.
The reason I want a 4:3 is plain and simple: I work with that laptop! And, like most people, I assume, I am working primarily from top to bottom not left to right. With the abominable Office Ribbon and the Task Bar tusing a third of my real estate where am I to work on a 15.4"?

It seems that the T60 is the newest TP available with a 4:3 screen, so that is going to be it.
I would also love to get a Frankenpad. Unfortunately they are really hard to come by (at least in Germany) and I lack the time and skills to build one myself.

Thanks again, I will look for a T60 with an Intel GPU now.

[rumbero]

I would also love to get a Frankenpad. Unfortunately they are really hard to come by (at least in Germany) and I lack the time and skills to build one myself.

Check with the German Thinkpad Forum member StarManni. He pretty regularily builds and sells those wonderful Frankenpads composed of a 15.1" T60 body containing a T61 mainboard with potent CPU. To get a better idea of what to expect from him, this is one of his former offers: FrankenPad Nr.V | T9300 | neues 15" UXGA BoeHydis IPS-FlexView | 320GB | 4GB.

I have built two of these Frankenpads myself, using one daily, while the other is kept stashed away as a fallback machine. And since the latest speedboost by adding an SSD, as well as due to the wonderful Boe Hydis UXGA display, i really wouldn't want anything more modern myself.

[ZaZ]

I would disagree somewhat with what others have said. Given that your current T42 more than meets your needs, I don't think building a T60 FrankenPad is necessary unless you have a desire to do so. Not many uses these days need a ton of CPU power. I have a very similar R60e. It works fine as a daily driver and plays HD video quite well. I suspect I'll get at least three more years out of it.

The two most important things a T60 will offer you is a dual core CPU and the often overlooked link in the performance chain, a SATA drive. It means you can add a SSD, which is more likely to make things seem faster than a faster CPU or more memory for most uses.

The problem with getting a T60 is there's no warranty if you care and it's now six years old. The screens are CFFL backlit and it may have dimmed some or considerably in those six years. You can of course replace the screen, but that will diminish the value.

[pianowizard]

Given that your current T42 more than meets your needs, I don't think building a T60 FrankenPad is necessary unless you have a desire to do so. Not many uses these days need a ton of CPU power.

It's funny that I recall myself saying virtually the exact same thing not so long ago! But in the past year or so, I upgraded most of my main machines and having gotten used to Core i3/5/7 speeds, I simply can't imagine having something like the T60 as my primary computer. But of course you are right, if the OP doesn't mind his current T42, then the T60 would certainly be fast enough, even without an SSD upgrade.

[ZaZ]

Interesting. In what way do you feel your i3/i5/i7 machines are faster? My experience is somewhat the opposite. My oldest machine, my R60e, often feels like the fastest of all my PCs in day to day usage. It's equipped with a 80GB Intel SSD and runs Linux. It boots in like seven seconds. Once into the desktop, it's very snappy when opening applications and when doing normal stuff, it seems just fast as my five year newer X220i with i3. Granted, I don't ask much of it, mainly Internet, music and banging out my reviews. When I need some oomph I can go to my six core desktop, but it seems no faster for general usage.

[rumbero]

I don't think building a T60 FrankenPad is necessary unless you have a desire to do so. Not many uses these days need a ton of CPU power.

There are much more important reasons than CPU power for building a Frankenpad, IMHO. Apart from being able to retain the feature of a IPS display even with a T61 class machine, the possibility to remove the 3GB RAM limitation of the T60 mainboards, and thus providing a 64bit OS with up to 8GB of RAM, is one of the main motivations to go the Frankenpad route.

In the end, it all boils down what one actually needs to accomplish one's daily tasks, though. So, if one doesn't need/want that feature combination, and is happy with a 3GB RAM maximum, one would certainly be more happy just adding a SSD drive (if at all) to a suitable T60.

[ZaZ]

the possibility to remove the 3GB RAM limitation of the T60 mainboards, and thus providing a 64bit OS with up to 8GB of RAM, is one of the main motivations to go the Frankenpad route.

For typical usage 8GB will make make little difference. Given that the OP already stated their T42 more than met their performance needs, a SSD is more likely to make their machine seem faster than a small bump in CPU performance or more memory. You also can run a x64 OS if you've got a Merom CPU. You just can't use more than 3GB of memory, which is not a big deal for most users.

[pianowizard]

In what way do you feel your i3/i5/i7 machines are faster?

In every single way, including basic operations like opening a folder or right-clicking something. In my experience, computers with CPU's less than a Passmark score of ~1,500 (this is a VERY rough ballpark) "hesitate" every now and then. If I want a consistently smooth experience, none of the Core Duo or lower-end Core2 Duo processors cut it. The fastest processor that the T60 can take, the Core2 Duo T7600, has a Passmark score of 1,271 which could be just fast enough although I haven't tried it. But I am being picky. Most users probably wouldn't mind a little hiccup every couple minutes.

For typical usage 8GB will make make little difference.

I totally agree with you on this. Even for an insane multitasker like me, my computers extremely rarely utilize more than 3 or 4GB. I think lots of people have retained the early-XP-era mentality that adding RAM was the best upgrade, forgetting that things were very different back then: lots of machines came with only 128MB or 256MB RAM and upgrading to 1 to 2GB gave a huge performance boost. But when one already has 4GB, going above that doesn't really help much.

[rumbero]

I totally agree with you on this. Even for an insane multitasker like me, my computers extremely rarely utilize more than 3 or 4GB. I think lots of people have retained the early-XP-era mentality that adding RAM was the best upgrade, forgetting that things were very different back then: lots of machines came with only 128MB or 256MB RAM and upgrading to 1 to 2GB gave a huge performance boost. But when one already has 4GB, going above that doesn't really help much.

Yes, this is very true also from my experience with 8GB RAM. For normal usage (= web+mail+office) 4GB is definitely sufficient, as is the case for my portable standard T61. But if one regularily uses multiple virtual machines, like i very often do, a full 8GB of RAM is a real game changer. Nonetheless, i guess this of no concern at all for the OP.