T60 with WinXP fails to boot after Windows Update

[Muse]

Running Windows XP.

I ordinarily have my Windows Update configured to download updates but let me decide when to install them. I just made that decision, Windows Update did its thing (I opted for the automatic update), and got the expected message that I had to restart the computer to finish installing the updates. I closed all applications that I knew wouldn't like to close automatically and clicked the [Restart] button. The computer shut down but failed to restart properly.

I've had trouble with this T60 rebooting at times the last year or two. Occasionally it stalled at the Windows startup screen, where it says "Windows" in large letters, copyright Microsoft, etc. When it does this I can see all this but it is very dim and it just hangs there. I've always been able to recover from this, usually be restarting the machine a few times (pull the power cord, reattach and restart the machine), sometimes hitting F8 and asking Windows to use the last good configuration. A few weeks ago I asked Windows to use a configuration from several days before. I don't know how I got to choose that, but I did. The last good one didn't work, but one from several days earlier did work and I was working again.

This time is different. I've tried these things:

Start Windows normally: It hangs on that dim Windows start screen.

Safe Mode: The drivers load and when it gets to ...\Drivers\mup.sys it just sits there (i.e. stops loading drivers)

Safe Mode with Networking or with Command prompt: Hangs at the same place, at ...\Drivers\mup.sys

Start Windows using the last known good working configuration: The machine hangs at the dim Windows start screen.

I see no way to choose a good configuration from several days ago. There seems to be no access to that.

I'm out of ideas other than to wipe the HD and start from the recover disk set. If I'm going to go that route, I'm going to install an SSD I have. But first I think I have to update the BIOS, right? What BIOS would that be? Well, that's a project I've been putting off but maybe now's the time. However, right now I'd prefer to just be able to get the machine running so I could use it right now.

Edit: I think I should mention that I used to have an external 23" monitor using VGA output from the T60 when I had these eventually recoverable reboot issues. A couple weeks ago I received a model 2504 minidock, and am now outputting from DVI to the 23" and from VGA (both off the mini-dock) to a 19" LCD display. I'm seeing what I see off the VGA. I doubt this is part of the problem, but thought I should explain these facts. I could, of course, remove the machine from the mini-dock, however I figure this might complicate things as I would not be "ejecting" the machine from the mini-dock previously.

[Johan]

What specific version of Windows are we talking about here?? If you're running Windows 7, you have the option to create a System repair disc (in another machine, which does "also" run Windows 7). If running XP, you can boot from Microsoft Windows XP - Recovery Console overview.

If you know what's wrong, you can (perhaps!) "manualy" fix the issue if booting from e.g. mini-XP on Hiren's BootCD 15.2 (the direct-download URL is --> here - in the green box almost at the bottom of the page).

Johan

[Muse]

What specific version of Windows are we talking about here?? If you're running Windows 7, you have the option to create a System repair disc (in another machine, which does "also" run Windows 7). If running XP, you can boot from Microsoft Windows XP - Recovery Console overview.

If you know what's wrong, you can (perhaps!) "manualy" fix the issue if booting from e.g. mini-XP on Hiren's BootCD 15.2 (the direct-download URL is --> here - in the green box almost at the bottom of the page).

Johan

Topic says it: T60 with WinXP fails to boot after Windows Update

I don't know what's wrong. Maybe the fact that the Safe Mode load stalls at mup.sys indicates a problem with that file. I'm not sure how to proceed here. I'd appreciate a suggestion. I do have a Windows XP installation disk, however the machine came with Windows XP preinstalled and I have made a recovery disk set. Maybe I can use the recovery set to somehow fix things or maybe I should try to use the Windows XP installation disk and see if I can get the recovery console to show up and do its thing. Or maybe one of the links you have there.

[Muse]

Well, I come back to the machine and the dim Windows startup screen is still there. I unplugg AC power, reapply it and hit the start button. This time when I get that brief prompt to hit the Thinkvantage button for some options, I do so. I somehow get the Rescue and Recovery 4 screen and go in there. There's a button to do a Full Restore, but I think better of doing that because I don't know that I really want to go back to my last saved image. It's probably years ago, maybe even the original one! So instead I click the Restart button, thinking I will have accomplished nothing. I opt to start Windows "Normally" expecting the same hang at a very dim Windows startup screen, but instead the screen is NOT dim, and I know I'm past the problem. It started apparently normally. Now if this isn't mysterious I don't know what is!

[DRobinson]

I am NOT a pc tech.

Do you have access to a Linux live distro? I would get one and boot it up, see if it is a hardware issue or just a borked up windows install. Maybe run memcheck86 as well. At minimum, I think you are going to be doing a clean install. Possibly even getting a new hard drive and doing a clean install.

But, I would boot up and run a live distro for a bit to see if that gives you any issues. If so, then there may be more difficult problems.

[GACrabill]

.... I could, of course, remove the machine from the mini-dock, ....

Now that you have it running again, shutdown, remove the dock, remove any USB connected devices, boot, check for other Windows Updates, re-boot a few times, then connect the dock and other connections.

The recommendation is to always remove a dock when updating the BIOS ... maybe one of the updates or the "updating Windows, don't power-off" which sometimes happens during the re-boot did not like the device characteristics of the dock at that point in the boot process.

I have had boot hangs on some PCs just because I left a non-bootable USB stick plugged in while doing a restart after applying updates .... a scary feeling when you're trying to "fix" someone's problems and not create "more problems".

[Muse]

Now that you have it running again, shutdown, remove the dock, remove any USB connected devices, boot, check for other Windows Updates, re-boot a few times, then connect the dock and other connections.

The recommendation is to always remove a dock when updating the BIOS ... maybe one of the updates or the "updating Windows, don't power-off" which sometimes happens during the re-boot did not like the device characteristics of the dock at that point in the boot process.

I have had boot hangs on some PCs just because I left a non-bootable USB stick plugged in while doing a restart after applying updates .... a scary feeling when you're trying to "fix" someone's problems and not create "more problems".

You mean flash the BIOS? Well, I suppose I'm going to do that soon because of my intention to install an SSD in this machine. I don't know what BIOS is recommended, but I think probably one other than what's in here now.

I'm going to follow your suggestions here, shut down, remove from the dock, boot, run Windows Update until no more updates are recommended, reboot a few times to make sure things are going well, then reattach to the dock and boot. Hopefully I won't have much if any trouble setting up the dual displays. This will be my first time undocking the machine, so I'm a little nervous. I don't know how the model 2504 minidock works. There's button 1 and button 2, I think you are maybe supposed to press 1, then 2 and remove. Anyway, I'm just going to shut down and remove, like you say and hope things go alright.

The Linux distro idea, well I'll maybe visit that if problems persist. Something's amiss here, the reoccuring dim Windows startup screen hangs, I must have that happen to me almost 1/2 dozen times now over the last year or two.

[RealBlackStuff]

FYI:
when it hangs, it always shows the last SUCCESSFULLY loaded driver, in your case: ...\Drivers\mup.sys
Everybody's dream would be to have it show the FAILING driver instead...

[ch27]

There was a known problem with this week's update causing system problems that is acknowledged by Microsoft. If you can't boot up, I'm not sure how you could try uninstalling it however.

http://blogs.technet.com/b/msrc/archive ... issue.aspx

[Muse]

There was a known problem with this week's update causing system problems that is acknowledged by Microsoft. If you can't boot up, I'm not sure how you could try uninstalling it however.

http://blogs.technet.com/b/msrc/archive ... issue.aspx

Ah, well, hopefully they'll design a subsequent update ASAP that fixes that issue.

I spent over 3 hours last night working on the problem. I undocked the T60, removed my Logitech m325 mouse's USB receiver from the machine (the admonition above about not having a USB device connected), ran Windows Update until there was nothing left to update. Usually I just do required updates but this time included every optional update that I don't find distasteful (e.g. bing toolbar, I don't think I want ANY toolbars). Must have taken 15 minutes just to download the updates. Then I rebooted, rebooted again, and again, probably at least 5 times in all. The first reboot the dim screen hang happened again. I pulled the adapter power, plugged it back in and opted to start Windows "Normally." It started OK. After that no problems, but around my 8th reboot got the hang again. Then it started OK. After reconnecting to the dock, got a hang, then an OK start, and I've left it at that. Normally I just close the cover and it goes to sleep. The Windows install is really old, probably the original one. Yep, just checked, the Windows folder was created when I bought the T60 in November 2006. I'm thinking, maybe yanking the HD and installing my SSD and a fresh install of WinXP might fix the issue whatever it is. Maybe it's a corrupt file or driver. Anyway, I've been intending to install that SSD, I imagine I'll have the typical reaction "why didn't I do this a long time ago?"

I need to research what I need to do, what BIOS to run, what steps to take including the proper method of formatting the SSD for Windows XP. Tips, link to a step by step appreciated! Thanks for the help!!!

PS It wouldn't surprise me if a fresh install of Windows (I know, people say Windows 7 is a better idea on an SSD than Windows XP, but I actually like running XP better, I find it less aggravating) resolves the issue. I've never run a machine longer on a single Windows install. It's well over 6 years old and I've used the machine a fair amount. I'm almost surprised the original HD has held up, a 60GB Toshiba MK6034GSX, I've had other laptop HDs fail in the meantime on my other machines.

[ch27]

Here are my recommendations:

1 - use your ssd with Windows 7 - I'm using this on my T60p. Bios 2.26 79ETE6WW 2010-04-01. Not sure what recommended bios level is. You'll notice the difference and might as well put your ssd to use.

2 - use your ssd with Windows XP - I'm not sure about TRIM, other requirements.

3 - as DRobinson said, test your current setup with a Linux cd. I like Redo Backup and Recovery in this case. It will show your disk SMART status and you can create an image file if you have an external drive to back up to. I restored my R50p this week to a bare 60GB drive in about 1/2 hour using this method. This would take much longer using my recovery disks, downloading all XP updates, and customizing any other settings. If it is a driver issue, then this would be the least desirable option since you would just be copying the same files. If you still have hardware issues (dim screen, lock-ups, etc.) using the cd, then you know you have other problems than Windows/hard drive.

[GACrabill]

The recommendation is to always remove a dock when updating the BIOS ... maybe one of the updates or the "updating Windows, don't power-off" which sometimes happens during the re-boot did not like the device characteristics of the dock at that point in the boot process.

I have had boot hangs on some PCs just because I left a non-bootable USB stick plugged in while doing a restart after applying updates .... a scary feeling when you're trying to "fix" someone's problems and not create "more problems".

You mean flash the BIOS? Well, I suppose I'm going to do that soon because of my intention to install an SSD in this machine. I don't know what BIOS is recommended, but I think probably one other than what's in here now.

I'm going to follow your suggestions here, shut down, remove from the dock, boot, run Windows Update until no more updates are recommended, reboot a few times to make sure things are going well, then reattach to the dock and boot. Hopefully I won't have much if any trouble setting up the dual displays. This will be my first time undocking the machine, so I'm a little nervous. I don't know how the model 2504 minidock works. There's button 1 and button 2, I think you are maybe supposed to press 1, then 2 and remove. Anyway, I'm just going to shut down and remove, like you say and hope things go alright.

Sorry for the confusion. One of the consistent recommendations when doing a BIOS update is to remove the laptop from the dock. This recommendation must be based on hardware peculiarities of docks and you never want anything interfering with a BIOS update. Based on that knowledge, odd reboot issues which occur when re-booting as part of Windows Updates would cause me to remove the dock and USB devices to make sure that they were not interfering with the boot process under non-everyday boot events.

Since your tests showed that your odd issue remains, the next thing that I would try would be using the "sfc /scannow" command from a Command Prompt window to make sure that there are no corrupt system modules. Good luck.

[Muse]

Sorry for the confusion. One of the consistent recommendations when doing a BIOS update is to remove the laptop from the dock. This recommendation must be based on hardware peculiarities of docks and you never want anything interfering with a BIOS update. Based on that knowledge, odd reboot issues which occur when re-booting as part of Windows Updates would cause me to remove the dock and USB devices to make sure that they were not interfering with the boot process under non-everyday boot events.

Since your tests showed that your odd issue remains, the next thing that I would try would be using the "sfc /scannow" command from a Command Prompt window to make sure that there are no corrupt system modules. Good luck.

I have had the T60 docked, using the two displays. Today I closed the cover, and the machine usually (always) goes right to sleep. This time I got an interminable message on the screen that it was going into suspend and I had to remove the cable from the power supply. After that the machine would not even turn on! After undocking, I got it to turn on but got the hang at dim screen again. This happened 1/2 a dozen times. Finally got things running again and I'm at the machine right now, it's docked, both displays working. Hmm.

OK, I figure my next step is to do as you suggest and run the "sfc /scannow" command. I've never heard of that before, but here goes...

[Muse]

OK, I figure my next step is to do as you suggest and run the "sfc /scannow" command. I've never heard of that before, but here goes...

I ran this, it took maybe 45 minutes and I get this message:

-----------------------------------------------
Windows File Protection
-----------------------------------------------
Files that are required for Windows to run properly have been replaced by unrecognized versions. To maintain system stability, Windows must restore the original versions of these files.

Insert your Windows XP Professional Service Pack 3 CD now.

[Retry] [More Information] [Cancel]
-----------------------------------------------

Now, this machine didn't come with a Windows install CD, of course. I do have one, don't know that it's SP3, will insert it and see what happens. However before doing that I'm going to click the More Information button and see what I can find out.

Edit: More info revealed nothing. Will insert my XP SP3 OEM CD and see what happens. I used that to load WinXP on my desktop.

[Cigarguy]

Instead of chasing Gremlins, sometimes it's best to simply do a fresh install.

[Muse]

Instead of chasing Gremlins, sometimes it's best to simply do a fresh install.

No doubt about that! At this point, after running sfc /scannow and inserting the XP SP3 install disk, the scan completed and disappeared. So, I'm running it again and see if it will complete without the message. If so, maybe, just maybe something's fixed... will see. Cigarguy, believe I plan to install an SSD, format, align (all this after upgrading to whatever BIOS is recommended), and probably a restore from recovery disks of XP, then all the updates from Lenovo (well, most of them...), Windows Updates, etc. Hopefully then, no problems. I have a feeling it's a software issue, this is such an old install of Windows. If it's hardware why would it be so sporadic? The machine seems to work fine except booting. I just don't know what it is, the failure to suspend this morning is a concern. I need to take some time and research how to best install an SSD in this machine. Meantime hopefully I can keep it running. I do have a Windows 7 T61 to fall back on if it isn't running.

Edit: A question would be why would some of my protected Windows system files be different from the originals? Only thing that comes to mind is some nefarious hack, a virus or malware ruse. In 6+ years a lot can happen. I created my recovery disks early on, and in any case the data used to create those disks was probably tucked away where malware wouldn't get at them.

Edit2: Removed WinXP SP3 CD, reran sfc /scannow which completed without incident (evidently it just goes away at the end without a message if there is not an issue). The machine went into and came out of suspend OK, maybe something's been fixed. Meantime, it seems to be working OK...

[emeraldgirl08]

Instead of chasing Gremlins, sometimes it's best to simply do a fresh install.

+1

Couldn't agree more.

[Cigarguy]

Protected Windows files, even system files, are not as protected as the naming convention suggests. Linux is much better in this regard.

Since you got it going, keep it going. When you get fed up with it, then do a fresh install. I got a T60 with Win 7 a SSD and 3 GB of RAM. With 3 GB of RAM Win 7 runs great on this machine. I still use it on a regular basis as I love the 15" flexview screen.

[Muse]

Protected Windows files, even system files, are not as protected as the naming convention suggests. Linux is much better in this regard.

Since you got it going, keep it going. When you get fed up with it, then do a fresh install. I got a T60 with Win 7 a SSD and 3 GB of RAM. With 3 GB of RAM Win 7 runs great on this machine. I still use it on a regular basis as I love the 15" flexview screen.

I have 2 as yet unused SSD's I got end of last year waiting for installation. I have 3 candidate machines including the T60 referred to in this thread, my Win 7 64 bit Ultimate T61 and my desktop. My desktop awaits my upgrading it to a new MB, CPU, RAM. I'll likely buy another SSD and have one in each machine as a boot drive.

My T61 doesn't have a Flexview screen, but it's pretty nice. The specs:

Lenovo ThinkPad T61
Intel Core 2 Duo @2.40GHz, T7700
Memory 4GB
640GB HD
VGA Intel 965 Express GMA X3100 128MB
Display WSXGA + TFT 15.4' resolution 1680x1050