T60 CPU upgrade question

[gathern]

Hi,

I have a Thinkpad T60 (model 1951W6Z) I bought it as a used one in 2008

Currently I have Intel Core Duo T2500@2.00Ghz CPU, and because it doesn't support 64-bit OS I need to upgrade it to some Core2Duo CPU.

The questions are:
- are my other components of my laptop will handle Core2Duo ??
- what is the strongest CPU I can use on my hardware ??

Below some specs about my T60:
- motherboard with chipset Intel i945GM Rev.03 and southbridge Intel 82801GHM (ICH7-M/U) Rev.B0
- BIOS version 79ETE7WW (2.27) date 03/21/2011
- RAM memory DDR2 3064 MB

Can You please give me some hints and advice.

Best Regards

[Cigarguy]

The T60 can take a T7600 (2.3 GHZ) CPU and that's about the top limit. The T7600 is a 64 bit capable CPU but the chipset is limited to 3 GB max of RAM. So if you really really need 64 bit I'd recommend looking at a T61 or newer. Having said that, my T60 with T7600 and 3 GB of RAM is still a very capable machine. I especially love the 4:3 Flexview screen.

Not being harsh, but honestly, the regular screen on the T60 that you have is not worth spending the $$ on a T7600. I would look at putting that money into a T61, T400 or newer machine.

[RealBlackStuff]

You can go for cheaper Core 2 Duo CPUs on your T60:
T5500 1.66GHz
T5600 1.83GHz
Both ca. $12-15 on eBay.

[Pete B]

These are all good suggestions but the T5XXX processors are the smaller cache
core 2 type. The T7XXX are the larger cache 65nm and the T7600 is demands a
high price because it is the fastest version for the older chipsets. If you back
down to the T7400 or T7200 the price drops with each tick down in clock speed.
The T7200 is 2 GHz like your current processor, 64 bit, typically with a buy-it-now
of about $25.
The chipset is only capable of a max 667 FSB so you cannot use the 800 FSB versions,
see Merom, and Merom-2M :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_In ... C_65_nm.29

Cache usually does not make much of a difference so the T5750 is the best
value as mentioned above.

I wonder how the T5750 compares to the T7200 as far as heat goes since the main,
perhaps only, difference is 2M less cache.

[tomjrc]

Maybe a tongue in cheek question! Much upside going up to T5750 cpu from T5500 1.66ghz?

[Pete B]

Performance within an architecture should scale linearly with clock rate unless
you hit a bottleneck such as FSB throughput - no bottleneck in this case:
T5750 Passmark = 1106:
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup. ... 40+2.00GHz

T5500 Passmark = 881:
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup. ... 40+1.66GHz

On the other hand, the CPU is so fast compared to disk and internet throughput
that unless you are running a CPU intensive task you probably will not see much
difference. Given the very low cost, and if you are planning to take it apart to
refresh the thermal paste or whatever, then why not?

Here is the T7200 with the larger 4M cache but same 2 GHz speed, Passmark = 1205:
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup. ... 40+2.00GHz

The T7300 has an FSB of 800 but will not run in this chipset but can be compared to the
slower 667 FSB, Passmark = 1193 - this should not be lower than the T7200 but the difference
is in the noise anyway. Perhaps the memory ran single channel here instead of dual:
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup. ... 40+2.00GHz

Here is the E2180 which is a 65 nm, 64 bit Core 2 based desktop processor, marketed under
the Pentium name, with 1M of cache and an 800 FSB, just to see the results with even a
smaller cache. Passmark = 1056:
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup. ... 40+2.00GHz

Some details on the E2180 desktop processor:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_In ... 2865_nm.29

I do not know the details of the Passmark benchmark, it does take advantage of multiple
cores but if it is so small that it fits in even a small cache then it will not demonstrate
cache size and FSB differences in a significant way.

[Johan]

@ gathern:

Kindly share with us what you actually seek to accomplish by upgrading your T60? Do you e.g. need to run a 64-bit OS on a T60? If so, note that T60's will only support up to approx. 3.2 GB RAM (a hardware limitation), so you won't benefit anything over a 32-bit OS in terms of larger memory-support.

As to what impact a CPU upgrade will have, see e.g. the thread Need advice on CPU upgrade for T60 2623-D6U (especially this post and the links pointed to therein), and T60 CPU upgrade - currently a T2300 CD, can a T5200 C2D work.

My suggestion: First, upgrade to a SSD (it is unclear to me if you currently use a slow, mechanical HDD?), and then upgrade to a T7200. About the suggested SSD upgrade, see e.g. the thread Adding an SSD to a T60.

Johan

[tomjrc]

Well Johan you have cleared up most if not all of my concerns about upgrading my T60. What i really wanted was to upgrade as much as possible and you have addressed those issues .thanks!

[TuuS]

If you're interested in a CPU I have the following available, T5500, T7200, T7600. These have all been sourced from fully tested corporate laptops that were parted out, you may find them a couple dollars cheaper but many chips, especially high-end ones are pulled from scrap (junk) laptops, in comparison I select the best available to source my parts.

Prices are $9, $27 and $79 plus shipping

ps. In my opinion a mint well tested T7600 for $79 is a great deal and that will be the best of the best.

[Pete B]

You can go for cheaper Core 2 Duo CPUs on your T60:
T5250 1.50GHz
T5500 1.66GHz
T5600 1.83GHz
T5750 2.00GHz
I would recommend T5750 at less than $10.-

RBS: Everything that I find for the T5750 says that it is socket P but the T60 is socket M as I understand it. Is there a socket M version of the T5750?
This SLA4D version of the T5750 for example:
http://www.cpu-world.com/sspec/SL/SLA4D.html

[RealBlackStuff]

My apologies, got some wrong CPUs listed there.
The lower speed ones are limited to T5500 and T5600, indeed with a Socket-M.

[gathern]

@Johan

Kindly share with us what you actually seek to accomplish by upgrading your T60?

First of all the upgrade CPU thing poped up when I bought new SSD drive to my T60 T2500 CPU doesn't support it !

So, that pushed me to the upgrade.

A lot of people may ask, why the hell You are still using T60 with old school screen

The answer is T60 is like a Terminator, I'm traveling a lot, and using laptop very much, and T60 with that screen is small. I really like it.

The only other laptop I would change to would be may be Dell Latitude E6410 which I'm using at work. Which is also nice machine.

So, for now in the June I'm buying new CPU, I already checked prices in my country (Poland) and when I will be there (currently I'm living and working in Norway) I will buy it. I think I will go for T7200 which costs around 20-25 $.

[Cigarguy]

A t7200 for that price is worth it IMO. Keep in mind that the chipset is limited to only 3 GB even though the CPU is 64 bit. Also recommend Windows 7 or 8 as they are both very SSD friendly.

[tomjrc]

Is it just a matter of swapping the cpu ? do you have to apply thermal paste anywhere when you re-install/ Thanks!

[ajkula66]

Cleaning the old paste and applying a fresh layer is a must IMO...on the CPU, that is. GPU has pads on T60 series, and these usually do not need attention unless they fall off during the swap.

[tomjrc]

Is there a "how to" clean & apply anywhere? This will be new territory for me.

[tomjrc]

Found clean & apply thermal paste !!!!! I get so much help sometimes I fail to search first.!!!

[Jules Tohpipi]

Whilst this is being discussed, I'm wondering if anyone could advise if it would be worth updating my T60 to the T7200?

Main reason for considering is that I run Lightroom, Photoshop CS6, and Canon DPP a lot.

Especially, I cannot run HD video (1080 30p) recorded on my Canon 7D on my T60. It stutters badly.

I have T60 with 1600x1200 FlexView, 3GB RAM, Windows 7, and Samsung SSD.

In all likelihood, would I see any impact installing a T7200? It would be nice to play the 1080 stuff off my 7D.

[ajkula66]

In all likelihood, would I see any impact installing a T7200? It would be nice to play the 1080 stuff off my 7D.

Most likely not. The GPU is the limiting factor here far more than the CPU.

[Jules Tohpipi]

Most likely not. The GPU is the limiting factor here far more than the CPU.

That's a pity

Thanks for answering.

[axur-delmeria]

In all likelihood, would I see any impact installing a T7200? It would be nice to play the 1080 stuff off my 7D.

Most likely not. The GPU is the limiting factor here far more than the CPU.

I disagree on this. The T60's GPU (whether it's Intel GMA 950 or ATI Radeon X1300/X1400) is not capable of decoding H.264/AVC video, so all the heavy lifting is done by the processor.

1080p video playback on a T60 is possible, but it's dependent on CPU performance and the bitrate and framerate of the video.
If the file size is more than 100mb per minute of video, you might start to experience stuttering and other issues.

If your T60 has a Core Duo, upgrading to a Core 2 Duo will improve video playback performance.
This is because:

1. Core 2 Duo has better SSE2/SSE3 performance per MHz compared to Core Duo.

2. CPU Video decoding is heavily dependent on SSE2/SSE3 instructions.

Software also plays a significant part. VLC won't cut it, because it's too inefficient-- I know because I've tried.

I use Media Player Classic Home Cinema (MPC-HC) with the LAV codecs. They are bundled together in the Combined Community Codec Pack (CCCP).

For me, every MHz counts.The T7200 is a good processor, but if you can grab a T7400 for a good price, even better.

[ajkula66]

I disagree on this. The T60's GPU (whether it's Intel GMA 950 or ATI Radeon X1300/X1400) is not capable of decoding H.264/AVC video, so all the heavy lifting is done by the processor.

1080p video playback on a T60 is possible, but it's dependent on CPU performance and the bitrate and framerate of the video.

For me, every MHz counts.The T7200 is a good processor, but if you can grab a T7400 for a good price, even better.

Huh. No.

I've got a T60 with T7400/X1400 setup along with a couple of them that sport a T2500/X1400 combo. All of them stutter with higher-end video playback. Period.

The first generation of CPUs that actually did something in this respect were Penryns seen on late R61/T61/X61 machines. They can lift and then some, even with lousy X3100 Intel graphics, although they are much better paired with nVidia discrete cards.

[axur-delmeria]

I've got a T60 with T7400/X1400 setup along with a couple of them that sport a T2500/X1400 combo. All of them stutter with higher-end video playback. Period.

Like I said, it's dependent on the bit rate and frame rate of th video.

If the file size is more than 100mb per minute of video, you might start to experience stuttering and other issues.

If his videos take up > 100mb per minute, then I'd agree that a CPU upgrade would be pointless.

Otherwise, it's still viable, IMO.

Another way to play 1080p HD video is getting a Broadcom CrystalHD decoder card, but I haven't personally tried it.
Also, you may have to sacrifice the Wifi card to make way for it, so it's not a very good option.

[RMSMajestic]

The most powerful one is T7600g which features an unlocked multiplier
But the price ><